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FrogMachine
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Registered: 12/16/13
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Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice
#19286529 - 12/16/13 11:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is my first attempt in a long time, so I'm just going to say more or less what I did and hope for general input, ideas, whatnot. I've been lurking for years so I see no point asking questions till I have some big problem I can't search an answer for.
I'm new, so I don't know everything despite how much reading I've done in the past several years. But I'm doing things that may or may not be wise just for personal experience.
Last time I tried, I was living in a desert. I did WBS to coir-coffee cakes with shiitake culture. They were doing really well until I popped them in the FC and dried them right out despite misting and all that jazz.
The basics:
-I'm cultivating cubensis. -I'm using straight brown rice the whole way through. -I'm starting with grain petris in some tiny glass jars I had handy, with screw-top lids. -I've got some of those nice 1L plastic screw-top containers from Violet's write-ups. -I used a rice cooker for the initial cooking before throwing the jars in a pressure cooker. -I also set up a couple of those 1L plastic containers for in-vitro multispore attempts just for the hell of it. -I have a spore print handy. Not going to bother with syringes for now.
The not-quite-as-basics:
I took a tote I had handy and made it into a still-air box. I put a big clear recycle bag on top and taped some nylon gloves into a couple holes I made in the bag. I have alcohol wipes in the box. I cleaned the box. I guess it's become a glove box. I also have a lighter in the box. I also put the spore print in the box.
Once the jars have cooled down enough (I already PCed them, lids slightly loose), I plan to take them out of the PC and put them in the box (and pull the bag's opening back over the top). Then I'll rip open a wipe and sanitize as much of the inside of the box as possible. Then I'll wait a little while longer for the air to settle somewhat.
Then I'll carefully scrape spores into each of the jars/containers and seal them up and wait. I'll probably even just leave it all in the same box and put the box in my constantly heated bedroom.
If all goes well, I hope to see colonization. And then I will share pictures...
I may pick pins off the mini-jars and use them. I don't know if I'll get contams from my own inexperience or from crappy disreputable prints, but if I do, I may have a chance to keep narrowing things down till I have something useable.
But I have only begun so... We'll just have to see how this goes and take it as it comes.
A couple points on my intentions before I take on some suggestions:
-I'm leaning toward tiny-scale, in vitro. -I'm staying clear of cakes for now. I may no longer live in the desert, but I'll probably cakes/blocks again when I get back into edibles. -I'm really liking the idea of just using rice for now. -I'm going to grab a hygrometer soon just to keep an eye on humidity. -I use so little that really, I'd be pretty much satisfied with the products of a few in vitro plastic containers. -I used to want to try a humidifier but I live on the coast now. -I have a big ol' sack of perlite from when I made my own cactus soil... -I will probably try bottom watering, and I may even try doing that with diluted coffee, or at least putting coffee into the process somewhere.... (I heard Nitrogen and Phosphorus are especially useful and both are plentiful in coffee)
I'm still trying to decide on a casing layer. I'll probably try multiple types of casings and no-casing in different containers. I'm not picky so I'm open to using less-than-awesome casings just 'cause I have some things handy. I happen to have potting soil. I have coir too. I don't have verm at the moment.
I still intend to do some more reading in that area...
I'm also trying to decide what if anything I want for a fruiting chamber. If I go invitro, I'm under the impression that I can fruit without using a chamber, but I'm also under the impression that a tub full of moist perlite couldn't hurt.
Any friendly suggestions/comments will be welcome.
Edit:
Here I go trying to add a picture I just took... Just to show what I'm currently up to in this project... Just 'cause...

Apparently I successfully put an image in my post! Yay!
Edited by FrogMachine (12/17/13 11:56 PM)
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PocketRevolution
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19286670 - 12/17/13 12:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Liquid coffee is really only a good idea if you will be keeping it sterile until it is fully colonized by mycelium. I don't know if you've ever left a pot of coffee sitting for a couple days, but the stuff is like superfood for mold. If you water your cakes with it, they will mold, guaranteed.
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: PocketRevolution]
#19286779 - 12/17/13 12:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I've heard the same thing. And I've seen moldy coffee too. Yummmm.
An update: The print I ended up with was TINY and difficult to work with... So I fell back on a couple syringes I had lying around.
Said syringes came from same unnamed source and the one I tried (used half of) didn't germinate, back when I was living in the desert. I forgot to mention I tried to grow more than just shiitakes.
At the time I used them on the same batch of WBS that worked just fine with the shiitake mycelium I'd ordered elsewhere. There was no germination whatsoever in any of the jars and I was kind of ticked.
Edit: Oh and the spore syringes are completely clear. When I originally used one of them I suspected they may have been just water.
Edited by FrogMachine (12/17/13 06:28 AM)
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Deadzygote6
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19286818 - 12/17/13 01:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Be Damn sure to let the alcohol dry before lighting your lighter to flame your needle ive made that mistake melted plastic to both my arms and threw my glove box and everything in it across the room
Edited by Deadzygote6 (12/17/13 01:09 AM)
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Deadzygote6]
#19286834 - 12/17/13 01:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yep I thought about that... And that plastic bag got in the way a little too.
But since I decided to fall back on those old potentially faulty syringes, my hopes were kind of low and I decided to forgo little things like flaming the syringe. I have unmodded lids so I was only squirting that mystery fluid into the jar without contact anyways.
If it doesn't turn out, so be it. If I get some mycelium I'll consider myself lucky.
I'll see what happens and get spores elsewhere if nothing good comes of this... And next time of course I'll be more careful with sterile procedure and do something more reliable with the box as well.
Edited by FrogMachine (12/17/13 06:32 AM)
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anne halonium
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19287770 - 12/17/13 09:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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ill watch this one...... sounds like your off to a good start.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Deadzygote6]
#19287930 - 12/17/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deadzygote6 said: Be Damn sure to let the alcohol dry before lighting your lighter to flame your needle ive made that mistake melted plastic to both my arms and threw my glove box and everything in it across the room
That's why tools are flamed outside of the box
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anne halonium
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19288250 - 12/17/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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or , why ya should use bleach wipes instead.......
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Deadzygote6
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: anne halonium]
#19288497 - 12/17/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea lesson learned... but looking back I can't help bit laugh at myself
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anne halonium
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Deadzygote6]
#19288501 - 12/17/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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dont feel bad, me and the maid blew up a glove box back in the 80's
point is, bleach wipes work, and are safer
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JMcDoogle
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: anne halonium]
#19288518 - 12/17/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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hahaha, I wasnt thinking, bit early one morning, sprayed a bunch of lysol in there
wet the bottom with alcohol, than procedded to flame sterilize internally...
Wont do that again.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: anne halonium]
#19288751 - 12/17/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
anne halonium said: dont feel bad, me and the maid blew up a glove box back in the 80's
point is, bleach wipes work, and are safer
Some people just shouldn't play with fire or explosives
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anne halonium
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19289000 - 12/17/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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you mean " most"..........
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: anne halonium]
#19289027 - 12/17/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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NWA, annie almost blowing herself up, the 80's had it all
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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anne halonium
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: cronicr]
#19289180 - 12/17/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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thats nothing, we leveled a barn also , and the maid lost her eyebrows and her hair tips in the blast.
sometimes, she has to take one for the team. its what i pay her the big bucks for.
but, thats another story , and another day.
that said, we believe in fire safety now.
sometimes peeps think were " know it alls" we are. me and the maid learned before the age of the internet. we made mistakes, to scale , you cant imagine, leaving wreckage on 3 continents. many on the verge of criminal negligence.
if i really hated you guys, id say nothing and sit back and laugh. thats not the case, im here so ya all can learn , and survive the grow.
dont ignore, laugh and learn.........and live.
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Edited by anne halonium (12/17/13 03:45 PM)
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: anne halonium]
#19289408 - 12/17/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Huh, I didn't know about bleach wipes. But I have bleach (which I cleaned the box with) and I have paper towel, so I suppose I could just make some next time around.
I can't help but keep looking at my rice knowing there's no way I'll be able to see anything yet. :P
On a side note, I may have some more syringes coming in soon. :P Can't say much more about that though can I?
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anne halonium
jaguarette



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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19289674 - 12/17/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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um , bleach wipe primer.
bleach wipes come in a variety of forms. some arent actually bleach. they are common in plastic contianers in every box store some have choro type names.
they are cheap, dont make it complex.
the things work , and avoids all the gas drama of lysol and iso.
use gloves.
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: anne halonium]
#19289783 - 12/17/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ah, I see, thooooose. I'll grab some before my next little misadventure.
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anne halonium
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19289797 - 12/17/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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safety , reliability , performance. thats the annie difference.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: anne halonium]
#19289998 - 12/17/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I dunno nothing say's sterile tools like a red hot glowing scalpel Then again you don't play with fire or knives eh? Probably for the best I guess
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anne halonium
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19290043 - 12/17/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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naturally we torch shit also.

the annie difference........
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19290082 - 12/17/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I dunno nothing say's sterile tools like a red hot glowing scalpel Then again you don't play with fire or knives eh? Probably for the best I guess 
Myself, I like me some fire. Burning things is fun.
And I used the same scalpel to drill holes in a plastic plant-pot to hold some poles in place for my HBWR to climb up.
The scalpel is mostly plastic though. Will I deform it or something if I make the blade red hot?
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19290098 - 12/17/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not if the end that the blade is fixed to is metal. You should have it red hot tho, this ensures it stays sterile when bringing it back into the SAB.
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19290158 - 12/17/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Unfortunately the blade is fixed directly into plastic. Am I screwed?
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19290190 - 12/17/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Give it a try, but I would get a better one cause that thing ain't gonna last and you want something you can eventually change the blade on. A simple metal exacto scalpel works good.
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19290226 - 12/17/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Damn why didn't I think of that? Exacto sounds good.
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cronicr



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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19290435 - 12/17/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its the little things that make the diffrence
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: cronicr]
#19314183 - 12/22/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Got some kinda growth... Of something! :P Something white and fluffy looking... In spots of varying size.
I honestly thought the thing was dead, but I was wrong. Whatever it is, something's alive in there...

Should I be excited? Is this likely mushroom mycelium? I'm no expert.
Sorry for the crappy picture. With all the condensation it's hard to see what I'm looking at and I clearly don't want to pop the top off just to get a better look.
Oh and I think I ought to mention that I've got such growth in both containers and 2 glass jars. 4 other jars are void of visible life.
Got a better picture now... The glass jars don't have condensation inside so they're easier to see into.
Edited by FrogMachine (12/22/13 11:50 PM)
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cronicr



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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19314296 - 12/23/13 12:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nice stuff!
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: cronicr]
#19389086 - 01/08/14 04:35 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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Okay it's been a while since I started this thread, but I've got a couple pictures of the progress I've made.


The first is my fully colonized small jars with the smaller amount of rice. The second is one of my larger plastic jars with the larger amount of rice, not fully colonized, colonizing with much less vigor than the other two, and with what I suspect is a bacterial contamination.
If you're wondering what happened to the second plastic jar... :P A friend of mine was rather excited about the project so I let him take it and watch it go. I have no idea if it's doing better than the one I've got.
On a side note, I have some new syringes ready... Nice and dark. I have a good feeling about these ones. I also have four spare plastic jars, and I have the 4 dead glass jars to re-use.
The small glass jars have been fully colonized for a few days now. I suppose I should slightly open the lids and expose them to gas exchange. Is there anything else I should do to them?
The suspected contaminated plastic jar I'm just watching progress (however slowly) out of curiosity. The mycelium does seem to be creeping to the bottom, slowly but surely, without the same texture I saw in the little glass jars.
Before I make up new jars, I need to make up a better still-air environment. Happen to be broke right now though so maybe not right away. But I'll get to it at some point.
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cronicr



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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19389110 - 01/08/14 04:38 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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a cardboard box and saran wrap was my first still air box, and it worked great, looking good to btw
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: cronicr]
#19389172 - 01/08/14 04:45 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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I do have saran wrap and cardboard boxes.
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cronicr



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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19389192 - 01/08/14 04:47 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
FrogMachine said: I do have saran wrap and cardboard boxes.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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FrogMachine
Bacon based life form



Registered: 12/16/13
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: cronicr]
#19445417 - 01/19/14 11:42 PM (10 years, 11 days ago) |
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Update:
I made a cardboard box still air setup and did up the remaining 4 plastic jars. Brown rice made in a rice cooker, put in the jars, and pressure cooked for an hour. This was a week ago. Not seeing anything yet but not worried.
Yesterday I noticed the colonized substrates in my little glass mini-jars with the plastic lids were looking like they were shrinking away from the glass, and I saw no condensation. I figured they could use some of that bottom watering, and so I used a spray bottle to squirt at the sides of the jar and let the water run to the bottom.
So today I took a look and what do I find but what appears to be a little bit of pinning. I'm excited to see little brownish bumps, even if they're on the side of the jar.
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19458452 - 01/22/14 04:22 PM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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A little more progress. :P That first little pin is growing up to be a happy little mushroom. And I have more pins just showing up now on the other mini glass jar's substrate.
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vikingsc
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19460249 - 01/22/14 10:58 PM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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Nice. You didn't case the rice? A little moist verm on top? You'd get a lot more water hence mushroom weight than straight grains without a casing.
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: vikingsc]
#19460344 - 01/22/14 11:24 PM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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Yeah, it's totally uncased, but I'm starting to consider casing for future attempts. I can see all my pins are on the side where it's moist. At the moment though I'm just happy to see something.
I think I'll try casing with potting soil first, since that's what I happen to have handy. Got bags full of it, and I'm broke.
My next goal though is to save some mycelium in a syringe, using popcorn and the inside of a mushroom, probably that one that sprung up first. I'll try to get some spore prints down too. My main concern is to get beyond the first life-cycle and get some continuity going.
Now I've got to do some reading on preparing casing materials...
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vikingsc
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19460424 - 01/22/14 11:48 PM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
FrogMachine said: Yeah, it's totally uncased, but I'm starting to consider casing for future attempts. I can see all my pins are on the side where it's moist. At the moment though I'm just happy to see something.
I think I'll try casing with potting soil first, since that's what I happen to have handy. Got bags full of it, and I'm broke.
My next goal though is to save some mycelium in a syringe, using popcorn and the inside of a mushroom, probably that one that sprung up first. I'll try to get some spore prints down too. My main concern is to get beyond the first life-cycle and get some continuity going.
Now I've got to do some reading on preparing casing materials...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19219682
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: vikingsc]
#19460570 - 01/23/14 12:29 AM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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Oh yeah I remember that thread. It was a good one. I just can't seem to figure out what casing was used.
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vikingsc
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19460589 - 01/23/14 12:35 AM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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For invitro grains straight verm would be fine.
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FrogMachine
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: vikingsc]
#19460600 - 01/23/14 12:42 AM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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I'd use straight verm if I had some. :P I've been jobless for a while or I'd just buy verm. Landed a job recently so maybe in a while.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: Deadzygote6]
#19460605 - 01/23/14 12:45 AM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Deadzygote6 said: Be Damn sure to let the alcohol dry before lighting your lighter to flame your needle ive made that mistake melted plastic to both my arms and threw my glove box and everything in it across the room
Alcohol lamp outside SAB
and alcohol spray the SAB beforehand, or soap works good too... but spraying is easier
there is still a risk though if you alcohol mist your SAB and bring in a red-hot inoculation loop haven't had problems yet though... maybe luck
I usually wait till most have evaporated, so I can look through the SAB
btw.. brown rice brown rice is hard to colonize likely, and you can't see contams easily/colonization easily that is why they add verm to it usually... it will be hard to get the moisture right too likely coffee is a recipe for contams usually unless you know what you do like one said
I would be using verm in a mix of brf and coffee + water wouldn't let mycellium try to colonize straight rice grains, would be hard to get moisture right
BRF mixed with water+verm has the moisture&texture right, you can feel it beforehand
but I have thought about this before, if you get lucky please make a tek BRF is very nutrious compared to i.e. grains it seems...
Edited by lessismore (01/23/14 12:50 AM)
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vikingsc
Mushroom Enthusiast



Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 1,214
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 20 days
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: lessismore]
#19460623 - 01/23/14 12:56 AM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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Whole brown rice alone has been used successfully many times. Not quite as easy as PF tek but if prepared properly works great: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19351156#19351156
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vikingsc
Mushroom Enthusiast



Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 1,214
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 20 days
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19460633 - 01/23/14 01:02 AM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
FrogMachine said: I'd use straight verm if I had some. :P I've been jobless for a while or I'd just buy verm. Landed a job recently so maybe in a while.
If you have potting soil or perlite laying around the house one of them could be used as a casing layer in a pinch.
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FrogMachine
Bacon based life form



Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 31
Loc: BC
Last seen: 10 years, 7 days
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: vikingsc]
#19460702 - 01/23/14 01:36 AM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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I also have some coir I could use in a pinch. I'll figure something out.
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vikingsc
Mushroom Enthusiast



Registered: 01/11/12
Posts: 1,214
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 20 days
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Re: Second attempt/first post - cubes in brown rice [Re: FrogMachine]
#19461904 - 01/23/14 10:44 AM (10 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
FrogMachine said: I also have some coir I could use in a pinch. I'll figure something out.
Ahhh ya that'd do. you could definitely just spawn some of that to coir.
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