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OfflineEthos
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16 Days and No Growth
    #19285809 - 12/16/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm working on my first grow and I'm currently trying to grow Penis Envy, which, I understand, probably wasn't the best choice for my first grow.

Out of 8 jars, 4 were duds and never populated in the incubator. 2 were contaminated. And 1 developed some kind orange/brown spot, while in the fruiting chamber, that may have been contamination (according to some people here). So I got rid of it rather than take any chances.

I'm down to 1 half-pint jar (using the modified PF Tek as described in the book, "Psilocybin Mushroom Handbook") that's currently in the fruiting chamber. The temp stays roughly between 68 and 73 degrees and the humidity, between 60 and 75%. It gets 8 hours of light every day and we mist it twice daily.

It was put in the FC on December 1st. So it's been 16 days and there's no sign of pinning or any kind of growth whatsoever. I have no problem being patient, but the book said it would take a few days to a couple weeks to see growth. So does it sound like I'm on track or is something wrong? Is there something I should try that will stimulate growth?

Regarding Watering/Misting:
The book doesn't go into nearly enough detail about watering using the modified PF Tek. So that's a wild card to me. Should there be any standing water at the bottom of the half-pint jars after misting? How long after the morning misting should the casing layer at the top of the jar look moist? Today, for example, my wife misted the jar in the morning. But eight hours later, the casing layer still glistened with moisture. The humidity was about 73% at that time and there was no standing water at the bottom of the jar.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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OfflineCaddilac
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19285886 - 12/16/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not be condoning illegal act but on my research in the past PE is a minimal fruiter from spore til cloned i think. and Fan FAE is important. its said that water evaporation triggers pins . Good luck. ps did you dunk em?


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OfflineEthos
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Caddilac]
    #19285918 - 12/16/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Caddilac said:
Not be condoning illegal act but on my research in the past PE is a minimal fruiter from spore til cloned i think. and Fan FAE is important. its said that water evaporation triggers pins . Good luck. ps did you dunk em?





Yeah, I have some B+ that I'll try after I run out of PE (still have 8 great-looking jars in incubation). Didn't dunk. I'm not using that technique. I'm using the modified PF Tek where you fruit them in the half-pint jars with the sides covered with cardboard or tin foil so the fruiting only occurs out the top.


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19286134 - 12/16/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

a cube is a cube is a cube they are all the same so no one variety of cubensis is harder to to grow than the next. that being said you're going to want to try for 90 to 100% rh. as for the misting you should be misting and fanning again and again until the water doesnt evaporate off, if there is still water on it the next misting cycle then just fan it and see if it evaporates,if so do the mist/fan again.

and last but not least just have patience for the cake in fruiting, it may take its time.:thumbup:


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Offlinebulsie
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: kinkaku]
    #19286179 - 12/16/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Mabey not enough air circulation ?


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: kinkaku]
    #19286247 - 12/16/13 10:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kinkaku said:
a cube is a cube is a cube they are all the same so no one variety of cubensis is harder to to grow than the next. that being said you're going to want to try for 90 to 100% rh. as for the misting you should be misting and fanning again and again until the water doesnt evaporate off, if there is still water on it the next misting cycle then just fan it and see if it evaporates,if so do the mist/fan again.

and last but not least just have patience for the cake in fruiting, it may take its time.:thumbup:



:thumbup:
and also check your moisture level, just pick it up, if it's light give it a dunk


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: kinkaku]
    #19286277 - 12/16/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kinkaku said:
a cube is a cube is a cube they are all the same so no one variety of cubensis is harder to to grow than the next. that being said you're going to want to try for 90 to 100% rh. as for the misting you should be misting and fanning again and again until the water doesnt evaporate off, if there is still water on it the next misting cycle then just fan it and see if it evaporates,if so do the mist/fan again.

and last but not least just have patience for the cake in fruiting, it may take its time.:thumbup:




Actually a cube is a cube is a cube except for penis envy. PE is a mutation and it actually does have more potent fruits and it is somewhat more difficult to cultivate than regular cubes. So his b+ grow may turn out better than his PE grow.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19286340 - 12/16/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no there is no exception in cubes when it comes to fruiting conditions, same subs same temps same rh it's a cube and should be treated like one


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineEthos
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19287014 - 12/17/13 03:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure everyone commenting is familiar with the "Improved PF Tek" that's outlined in the book I mentioned above. I'm not doing the typical PF technique. I'm not dunking and rolling my cakes and then placing them on perlite for growing. With the modified or "Improved" PF technique, this isn't required, neither is fanning the cakes. In fact, this technique is designed so that you don't have to use perlite and it's made to be simpler than the typical PF Technique.

Has anyone here tried this specific technique successfully? I feel like if I start using methods designed for the perlite grow chambers, I'm going to be mixing my methods. I'm thinking I should stick with one method, but what do I know? This is my first grow and I'm getting mixed messages.

Since I'm leaving the cakes in the jars during fruiting, and I'm restricting the growing to the top surface of the exposed casing layer, I don't think I should be fanning, since the book doesn't talk about needing to do this with this version of PF Tek.

I'm a noob, so I'm also easily confused. So...PE is harder to grow...PE is NOT harder to grow....??? Arrrgh!

Thoughts? Comments?


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OfflineSuperSillyUs
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19287112 - 12/17/13 04:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Standing water = bad. Especially in the bottom of your jars, I'd think.
Are ya sure it's water and not metabolites? Not sure if those are considered a contamination risk...

Not sure what book you're talking about. Not Stamets', is it:
Psilocybin Mushroom Handbook: Easy Indoor and Outdoor Cultivation?
That's not a bad place to start, not as good as The Shroomery, of course...:tongue: Nothing is as good as The Shroomery.
Especially when you're on the Shroomery. lol, but anyhow...just ask the author of the tek/book. If you can. Or post a link.

Do an advanced search here for keywords "pinning triggers"...trusted cultivator, newer than 2 years?


I think pinning triggers, once you get past sterile technique, pc
problems, etc, is the main headache for people in general, was gonna
say new people but...I still have to remind myself to not helicopter
over ma mega-turkey-tray-cakes. Anyways, I think if I remember correctly,
and good luck with that!,the main pinning trigger is evaporation.

So, mist like a mother, then let it evaporate. Repeat as necessary and be patient. Some people were saying lack of nutrition was also a 'pinning strategy' buuut...given that there's 3 and 4 flushes...maybe not. Then again, is there really such a thing as a 'flush'? I haven't seen it. Mainly once it starts pinning it doesn't seem to produce a 'flush' then rest, then produce another 'flush'...just keeps pinning left and right consistently, so maybe lack of nutrition, i.e. the mycelium has reached some kind of boundary of the easily edible substrate, has something to do with stimulating fruit body production...ask a TC. Do a search. Then, sit back...

and feel confused at the wealth of differing opinion. Ain't life grand, Miss. V?
You are not alone. There's much still to be discovered and nailed down, seems like.

Despite da 'big wigs.'
What do I know?  :flowstone:


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OfflineEthos
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: SuperSillyUs]
    #19288796 - 12/17/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SuperSillyUs said:
Standing water = bad. Especially in the bottom of your jars, I'd think.
Are ya sure it's water and not metabolites? Not sure if those are considered a contamination risk...

Not sure what book you're talking about. Not Stamets', is it:
Psilocybin Mushroom Handbook: Easy Indoor and Outdoor Cultivation?





First, do metabolites ever look like water? If so, how can anyone tell if it's metabolites and not simply too much water? So I guess I'm not sure what it is. I've seen what looks like a little too much water pooling at the bottom of a jar. I just hold back watering/misting until it returns to normal. Is that the right move?

Second, that's exactly the book. It's by L.G. Nicholas and Kerry Ogame. Page 85 is where they start talking about "The 'Improved' PF Tek". It's a great book, overall...other than the lack of watering information. :-)

Thanks for your suggestions. I've done searches but never noticed those other options. As for contacting the authors, I've thought about doing that. Not sure how to reach them, but I haven't checked yet.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19288895 - 12/17/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no metabolites are a rusty color, wut type of fc you got?


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineSuperSillyUs
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19288904 - 12/17/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well, pinning and waiting for pinning is a common theme for anyone involved in this hobby. Sometimes they pin slow sometimes they pin fast. (16 days isn't that long)
Also depends if you let it 'consolidate.' After 100% of the outside is colonized, sometimes the inner core still needs a bit of work. Birthing before this is done...
will just mean a longer wait for pins. Also, pins can sense when you're watching them and are very shy. True story.
:awejeez: 

Metabolites, if memory serves, are kinda pasty lookng. Thick, somewhat yellowish.
Surely there's a few pictures onboard here of them. Some call it 'myc piss'.
Oh, the Shroomery bro-culture-she-nanny-gams! Never gets old!

Yeah, I like that book. Kinda got me to realize yeild isn't everything.
There's a few kind souls on here. They really stick out, seems to me.
Lock on and follow their movements, hover around their threads like a friendly gnat.
Without going up their nose!
Maybe ask them something smart concerning your grow
...after you've searched and searched on your own, obviously.
Don't be hurt when they ignore you by accident. Like I always am. lol


Question: Why is it still in the jar anyways?
More surface area = more space for the pins to bloom.

Is it, because you have only one left?
Hm, that is a problem. If all of them failed but this one, 7 out of 8, the chances for this lonely straggler are fairly slim. Which sucks.

Still, never fear. Just kinda neglect tek it.
Do something else, mist and fan regularly. Save up for more than one syringe next time and run a series of tries. Taking notes and watching.

I promise you, I failed hard the first 5 or 6 times I tried at this hobby. And, I was busting my ass. Really only succeeded a few years ago when we moved to a carpet less house.
Not sure if that had anything to do with it or not....but, like magic! every attempt in that house worked, where the 3 or 4 years prior, all had ended with defeat.

Perseverance, patience, ommmmm


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OfflineSuperSillyUs
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: SuperSillyUs]
    #19288983 - 12/17/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19167516#19167516
'Bottom Watering'  Interesting stuff. Also amusing watching haters writhe in agony, lol.


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OfflineEthos
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: cronicr]
    #19290325 - 12/17/13 07:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
no metabolites are a rusty color, wut type of fc you got?




Thanks for your reply. I'm a noob, so you're going to have to spell things out for me. What's "fc"?


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19290337 - 12/17/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Fc: fruiting chamber.


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OfflineEthos
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: SuperSillyUs]
    #19290409 - 12/17/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SuperSillyUs said:
Well, pinning and waiting for pinning is a common theme for anyone involved in this hobby. Sometimes they pin slow sometimes they pin fast. (16 days isn't that long)
Also depends if you let it 'consolidate.' After 100% of the outside is colonized, sometimes the inner core still needs a bit of work. Birthing before this is done...
will just mean a longer wait for pins. Also, pins can sense when you're watching them and are very shy. True story.

Question: Why is it still in the jar anyways?
More surface area = more space for the pins to bloom.

Is it, because you have only one left?
Hm, that is a problem. If all of them failed but this one, 7 out of 8, the chances for this lonely straggler are fairly slim. Which sucks.

  [snip]

Still, never fear. Just kinda neglect tek it.
Do something else, mist and fan regularly. Save up for more than one syringe next time and run a series of tries. Taking notes and watching.

  [snip]

Perseverance, patience, ommmmm






Well, when I consider the consolidation factor, that changes things a bit. I didn't give it the additional week that is often suggested. Perhaps I was a bit too excited to get on with the growing phase.

This is my very first attempt at growing. And when I injected the spores, the bulk of them seemed to be clumped in the middle of the liquid in the syringe. I tried to mix it up, but I suspect that 4 jars failed because there just weren't enough spores to populate it. That left 4 more jars. 2 were contaminated, discovered during incubation. 2 went into the growing chamber and one developed an orange/brown/dark-brown spot on it. I suspect it was due to over-watering. We pitched it, just to be safe. So I'm down to my last one of my first batch and first shot at growing.

So if I consider that the first week may have been finishing the inner population process, that means it's only been about 9 days. Guess it's not so far off as I thought.

Although, I'm not waiting for this one jar before I do anything else. I currently have 8 more PE in the incubator and those look fantastic. Many were 100% last weekend. I'm giving them more time, this time around.

After that, I have two more syringes, both B+. So I'm in this for the long haul. Naturally, I'm just excited to see something growing. This is a fun and fascinating process. :-)

The reason I have one still in the jar is because I'm following the procedure in the book. And that's how they do it. Since I like that process, I'm happy to go with it. Later on, I'll change my method, but now, I'm just getting experience with a basic process.

So do you think that fanning would still be a good idea, even though the book doesn't say it's needed? Obviously, the people who wrote the book have been very successful with this method, so I'm sure it works just fine.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out. :-)


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OfflineEthos
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19290450 - 12/17/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sgt. Pepper said:
Fc: fruiting chamber.




Oh...duh! LOL I guess I have what is called a "shotgun" FC. It's a clear plastic box and I've drilled a bunch of holes in it. I only have one jar in it right now, but this is roughly what it looks like. Keep in mind that I'm not using the typical method. I'm using the "Improved" PF Technique. So there's not supposed to be perlite and the jars are supposed to be covered exactly as in the picture. Also, I've placed a wet paper towel in the chamber (off to one side) to increase humidity, which worked like a charm.



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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19290549 - 12/17/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's not a SGFC with out perlite, also I never heard of "improved pf tek" but I can't see what the improvement could be.


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19290690 - 12/17/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You definitely need to fan mushrooms love fresh air. Also your humidity is kinda low.  I keep mine over 90 at all times.  I'm not trying to be a dick but the tek your using sounds kinda bunk. You should look at some of the teks on this site.


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