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kactus.brand.g
Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 6,886
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
#21276226 - 02/15/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey ferrel,got Clay
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: kactus.brand.g]
#21276263 - 02/15/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Clay pots.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: ferrel_human]
#21356640 - 03/03/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well I took the pic of my moringa and this guy was in the back ground.
My latest attempt at rock growing. I call it opuntia sandwich.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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karode13
Tāne Mahuta




Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,290
Loc: LV-426
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: ferrel_human]
#21358044 - 03/03/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Opuntia sandwich....
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: karode13]
#21358846 - 03/03/15 11:07 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
karode13 said: Opuntia sandwich.... 
Laugh now...cry later
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: ferrel_human]
#21359330 - 03/04/15 03:17 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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gg
can't wait to see results!
Edited by intelligentlife (03/04/15 03:25 AM)
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kactus.brand.g
Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 6,886
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: intelligentlife]
#21360245 - 03/04/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
intelligentlife said: gg
can't wait to see results!
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: kactus.brand.g]
#21361909 - 03/04/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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kactus.brand.g
Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 6,886
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: ferrel_human]
#21362526 - 03/04/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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I Love this one
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: kactus.brand.g]
#21363278 - 03/04/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Those are my favorite.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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LSoares
Farmer



Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 3,209
Loc: Portugal
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: ferrel_human]
#21364463 - 03/05/15 02:24 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Those Ariocarpus seem very much at home Ferrel - but then again, that rocky diet is just their thing. What happened to the Encephalocarpus, did it split or some bug ate through it?
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Re: What is is rock? Just collected some outdoors. [Re: LSoares]
#21364819 - 03/05/15 07:13 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSoares said: Those Ariocarpus seem very much at home Ferrel - but then again, that rocky diet is just their thing. What happened to the Encephalocarpus, did it split or some bug ate through it?
It came that way. It hasn't stopped the growth though. Not that it's really grown. I've had for more than five years now, I think.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Lofo
Cacti Love


Registered: 03/01/15
Posts: 36
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: ferrel_human]
#21419262 - 03/17/15 05:26 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Really interesting! thank you.
I have access to this kind of rock. It's called "pizarra" and I'm not sure if the translation is "slate".
Wikipedia says that it comes from the compactation of clays and sometimes from igneus rocks.
Do you think it would be a nice additive to the mineral soil?
-------------------- Join the Stone Age English isn't my first language, so please excuse any mistakes.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
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Loc: EU
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Lofo]
#21419481 - 03/17/15 07:36 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have used all kind of mixed rocks, never think about what they are. (as long as they are all rocks)
Never had any issues and I have collected any kind of rocks possible to find outdoors.. It should not be the problem. Afaik, you don't need to mimic that species environment soil, so far not a single cactus have show bad signs, no matter what rocks I use and throw in to mix.
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Lofo
Cacti Love


Registered: 03/01/15
Posts: 36
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: intelligentlife]
#21425344 - 03/18/15 04:36 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- Join the Stone Age English isn't my first language, so please excuse any mistakes.
Edited by Lofo (03/18/15 07:15 AM)
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Argyreia
Grafting cacti is awesome



Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1,100
Loc: France
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Lofo]
#21441804 - 03/22/15 02:19 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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I sowed ariocarpi in 100% rocks. Mixed vermiculite and sand. The first seedling has popped 6,5 days later. I'm waiting for the rest of them ! 

I run this experiment just for the fun but do you think slow growers like ariocarpi or lophophora can make it in full rocks from seed ?
Edited by Argyreia (03/22/15 02:38 AM)
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Argyreia]
#21441846 - 03/22/15 02:53 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Howcome you see loph growing in poor, very poor rocky desert if they aren't able to germinate in full rocks? ..it' just matter of where they seed actually find it's way and could it be able to have spot with good Place to germinate and stay hide from sun first years(still receiving non-direct light and so on.)
There are no basically rich soil anywhere in peyote habitat.. Sand is also rock but sand in the ground and sand in the pot is toally differnt story.. Sand grins is like miniature rocks.
I don't say loph can be germinating at surface of desert sand/rocks, but they may find deep hole enough covering them from sun and grow pretty much their first years in shade and cool. Too much underground is probably too cold and at surface it's too hot o hold moisture. There are still spots to make able to loph to germinate in desert without human help and basically in pure rocks in that sense, ofc decaying plant material and other stuff turn in to nutrients of those plants as well in the wild. In desert nothing goes to waste and all dying animal and plant decay sooner or later for nutrients of other life form.. Mud may help keep moisture in desert, but it is as well component of soil material I would not use in pot if I don't know what to do with it.
Key word to keep almost "perfect" peyote cactus is your absence. For seedligs bag or dome above germination tray help.
Seedlings do not die if grow medium surface is getting dry as long as they don't go purple because of dehydration don't worry dry growing medium.. I have find it's actually good to let it get dry at first month or two. Then start cycle of watering. Those small plants will endure it.
Atm I am "baking" yote, mammillaria and astrophytums" in +40-50C days with heat mat below, lights above. Only used first necessary months to be able to germinate them in pure coco coir because in those temps any spot dries fast. Night temps may drop under +20C easy for them. It's just one of my tests.. Anyway. Not linked to growing in rocks(except I add some powder limestone to coco coir and it were N-heavy coco but seedlings adjust it without burns) but you probably get my point. Those plants in human care you can allow soil to get dry at after first water just start to vanish from pot. You can monitor them and see when it's too long without water but even smallest ones will do fine without water long time and no need to be more age than few weeks.. Dehydration can be seen as skin coloration change so I see no sense to actually even care about moisture of actual soil surface because the plant tell you eveything need to know. (just learn to read the signs)
But I m not fan of growing in 100% cooc coir. I like to use it as substitude of soil. It hold water enough but not too much.
Actually I just started to think. I may have some 20-30% coco coir mixed to rocks and perlite, not more. I usually just throw it some in to rocks when I add rocks and plant to it's container. Some plants are in pure sand and rocks since I have had no coco coir when I have transplant few cacti this spring, so they are on full rock diet.. I have not always even same growing medium to use so non-fertile coco coir with limestone chips and other rocks was my choice.. And if I have no coco coir, I don't add it to soil. Another reason is, if I use very small grain sand. Coco coir in there prevent's it going to cement and packed. I have used it before as material I prevent soil going too damp. So it works with sand as well if there are not too much sand, but it prevent any stuff in soil get too damp. I use it to any plants. But for cacti, I buy those bricks because they are fertilizer free. I like to add fertilizers separately by slow doses at time, maybe one, two times per season.
Few plants I have planted without coco because I haven't buy it more. So few plants I have transplant haven't got coco coir in their soil(or rocks, how I say it)
Why I was talk about 100% coco grow... I am just testing to grow in pure coco coir and seeds germinated like should. But I don't like it with cacti as it is, it needs rocks in the mix most part imo.. Only using it as extra substrate for rocks. I don't see any bad in it there are some coco coir among rocks. it helps also give drink to plants because by dropping pot to water container, it suck water more easier than pure rock. Ofc this can be solved by waterign from top. But I have indoor garden, all year around. It's easier sometimes just to do pool of water and dip every pot in there and let grow medium suck the water. Vermiculite would be substrate I would not use in my climate at any way. For cacti it may hold too much moisture. I have only tested it with other plants but not with cacti.
Coco coir came to my mix by accident since I need to get good way to get water rising properly from drainage holes up when I dip those pots to water container. It's indoor job for me so it's easier to do it like that.
If I water from top.. I would cause moisture problem to my apartment by accidentally spilling water to floor and structures of house.
I really like to keep lophophora in rocks. Flat tap root cacti are very nice ones to grow. I lik to give rocks for them. To be honest, I don't know really how much I have used coco coir mixed to rocks but I never add it more than rocks, usually less. I have 3 astrophytum plants also growing in sand and rocks. Two a. asterias and a. capricorne. Should open soon their buds and show flowers!
Edited by intelligentlife (03/27/15 11:50 AM)
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Lofo
Cacti Love


Registered: 03/01/15
Posts: 36
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Argyreia]
#21442432 - 03/22/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Argyreia said: I sowed ariocarpi in 100% rocks. Mixed vermiculite and sand. The first seedling has popped 6,5 days later. I'm waiting for the rest of them ! 

I run this experiment just for the fun but do you think slow growers like ariocarpi or lophophora can make it in full rocks from seed ?
Here you can see some Ariocarpus seedlings in 100% rocks. This user from a spanish forum cultivates ariocarpus in 100% rocks and he have very good results: http://foro.infojardin.com/threads/tiempo-de-ariocarpus.8368/
-------------------- Join the Stone Age English isn't my first language, so please excuse any mistakes.
Edited by Lofo (03/24/15 11:45 AM)
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Argyreia
Grafting cacti is awesome



Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1,100
Loc: France
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Lofo]
#21442510 - 03/22/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Your seedlings are absolutely gorgeous ! 
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Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Argyreia] 1
#21445940 - 03/23/15 06:47 AM (8 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ah I meant to post this a while back. Brain like a sieve, drains better than my pots..
http://acta-succulenta.eu/index.php?pg=dwn&mnu=m1_en&clc=1&zc=BeC
Issue 2, Volume 2, of Acta Succulenta has an article on WIG (Wild Grown) which complements this thread nicely.
A few choice quotes :
Quote:
After one year I returned to Mexico in order to do population studies on Aztekium hintonii and Geohintonia mexicana, but also to collect some soil samples at various locations. These were then analysed at the Institute of Agronomy in Bologna, where it was found that those seemingly barren and arid soils were in fact, very fertile due to their clay component and the high content in nutrients.
Quote:
Over the years, the plants that were cultivated with the wild grown style changed their appearance: grew much more slowly than the others, but their cuticles were thick and their epidermis had an intense colour. The spines of Ferocactus were finally similar to those of the fair creatures of the Mexican deserts and Ariocarpus plants stopped growing in height, and enlarged horizontally and developed massive root systems that destroyed the pots.
Quote:
WIG (Wild Grown), is a style of cultivation aimed at influencing the development of succulent plants in order to let them take on the typical habitat appearance.
In principle it is the use of techniques of extreme cultivation, i.e. aimed at limiting the natural propensity of succulent plants grown in developing the soft tissue (aquifer parenchyma) and instead encouraging the production of dry matter (cellulose, lignin, cuticle, cork, wax, sugars, proteins etc.) through the use of poor substrates, cultivation in the open air and the drastic reduction of fertilizers.
Quote:
For several species placing the plants in their environment strictly depends on ecological factors affecting such species diffusion, e.g. Aztekium (and Strombocactus) species are adapted to colonize vertical slopes and don’t grow in other environments. The cultivation of these species in a vertical position results in better plant growth of fertilizers.
Quote:
WIG plants are not only similar in shape to those that grow in the wild, but also show a remarkable consistency, are long-lived, bloom more easily and only rarely suffer attacks of infections and parasites.
And of course examples of results are always nice. Comparison shots of WIG vs habitat:
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