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OfflineUncommonSense
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Registered: 05/21/13
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request
    #19283764 - 12/16/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, so I'm preparing for my first run, but I want to make sure I have all of my proverbial ducks in a row. Each of my friends that I've consulted with only have experience using cakes and jars, where as I want to use bags. So, based on my research, information that I've compiled from here, this is my rough layout... It feels as if I'm missing something, but I suppose that could be due to the difference of using bags vs jars?

Let's say I use BH's recipe to fill these bags...

10 lbs manure/straw (horse manure is better than cow because it's lighter unless it's a grass-fed cow.  Straw is often in the mix as they line the barn floors with it.  Straw speeds things up but reduces density a bit.)
2.5 lbs dry (uncooked) wild bird seed (other grains like rye are fine too)
3 gallon  water (any water is fine)
5 liter  vermiculite (coarse is better but any will work)


- according to him, fills 7 large spawn bags.

Next step would be to sterilize in the PC for 2.5 hours, and then allowed to cool for approx 12 hours, is this about right?

Then inject LC, approx 140cc of LC per bag according to BH's tek

Weather Report Suite / Let it Grow
(mind the temps)    (watch n wait)

Now this is the part that I am concerned about... Once the bag is white/full colonization, what I am envisioning is just being able to cut the top part of the bags off and lay in a tray, and it should be good to go, correct? Casing is optional, and I don't need any additional steps in this?

This tek seems quite intuitive, and it just seems as if I'm missing a critical step in there somewhere, but being a gnewberton, I can't say with any certainty. Any old hands care to let me know if I'm way off base, or ready to rock and roll?


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: UncommonSense]
    #19283780 - 12/16/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Most people tend to put LC on grains then spawn the grains onto a poo/straw/verm/coir or whatever substrate. I don't work with poo but you probably don't need to put them in spawn bags because you'll pasturize, not sterilize like with your WBS or whatever grain you choose.

Maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly. But judging by the 2.5 lbs of WBS and you thinking it will fill 7 bags I'd say you're confused. But maybe people do this, either way don't bag them up until some one who has more experience playing with shit comes around.


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OfflineUncommonSense
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: Juicin]
    #19283812 - 12/16/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineUncommonSense
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: UncommonSense]
    #19283836 - 12/16/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

From previously posted link -

-------------------------------------------------------------

Also, here is the formula redone with some volume measurements.  This makes about 38 final pounds, which fills 4 super large spawn bags or 7 regular large spawn bags.  Since this mix contains about 12.5 pounds nutritive dry matter, 100% BE, a typical good cubensis yield, would yield 1.2 cracker dry pounds (545 g) pounds or 12.5 pounds wet.  A good yield of pan cyans runs closer to 60%, which would mean this substrate would yield 7.5 pounds wet or 0.75 pounds (340 g) cracker dry.  That's a lot of mushrooms (thousands in the case an pan cyans), so you might want to reduce the recipe according to your needs/expertise.  Here it is:

10 lbs manure/straw (horse manure is better than cow because it's lighter unless it's a grass-fed cow.  Straw is often in the mix as they line the barn floors with it.  Straw speeds things up but reduces density a bit.)
2.5 lbs dry (uncooked) wild bird seed (other grains like rye are fine too)
3 gallon  water (any water is fine)
5 liter  vermiculite (coarse is better but any will work)

The amount of vermiculite that will work is highly variable.  Hell, you could do fine without it if you are using hay/straw-fed horse manure or if there is a lot of straw in the mix to lighten it up.  Removing it in a substrate that is pretty dense will probably slow down the colonization time of the bag in most cases because more airy substrates tend to colonize a lot faster. 

Speaking of colonization time, my bags usually colonize in 3 to 5 days to grey (recently I had bags finish in 3 days that had more straw than usual) and finish flushing out white in about 7 days.  If you are seeing times way in excess of this, you are probably doing something wrong or supplementing with some funky stuff (keep it simple stupid).

-------------------------------------------------------------

So, based on that, it seems that this is my substrate and spawn in one bag, and allow the LC to take in the same bag. Hence, why I am looking for clarifications and tips from those with experience using bags, and more specifically, this tek.


Edited by UncommonSense (12/16/13 01:10 PM)


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: UncommonSense]
    #19283850 - 12/16/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well you definitely outlined the tek in that thread correctly. And his results speak for themselves. Assuming you're getting your poo for free or close to it, it seems like a great spawn/sub. And if you have LC no point in not trying.

Make sure you follow the tek to the letter, and yes assuming it colonizes fine you can fruit it right in the bag. Sterilizing the poo is generally considered bad because it's more open to contams. And that guy in the thread is no novice. I would recommend putting the LC to your WBS then spawning that to poo and verm in a monotub. But the thread you linked speaks for itself, it can be done.

edit 2 - https://mycotopia.net/topic/56627-pasteurization-vs-sterilization-for-hpoo/

Link on the topic


Edited by Juicin (12/16/13 01:16 PM)


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OfflineUncommonSense
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: Juicin]
    #19283891 - 12/16/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well, my research suggests actually fruiting in the bag is possible, yet will not give the yield results that are common with teks of this nature. It also appears that it DRASTICALLY reduces the time between inoculation and harvest, am I far off base with that hypothesis? I was planning on using a Martha closet to fruit, but then I found this.

I will be attempting to replicate that, and just emptying the bags into one of those tubs for fruiting.

Yes, it seems that with any tek, it should be followed to the letter. I live in a place where I have access to hpoo for the expense of the gas it takes to drive and get it, so that's a bonus. But leaving it more susceptible to contams shouldn't be an issue in this tek, as it is completely sealed off during the inoculation process, from what I gather. It will only be able to be exposed to said contams once the bag is opened, and everything is ready to fruit.  I was mostly trying to figure out that if the grain in that mix would serve as the base I need for everything to take hold, and then the now-pasturized hpoo will be that substrate, in the same bag. Thanks for your input on this, Juicin. When I get this up and growing, I'll run a journal to document my results.

edit 1 for punctuation

edit 2 for clarity

edit 3 - I also feel that I won't have too difficult a time creating the LC, there is a wealth of information around on how to make it, and I'm confident in my ability to follow the directions.


Edited by UncommonSense (12/16/13 01:33 PM)


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: UncommonSense]
    #19283947 - 12/16/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yea, with an LC and not having to spawn you're cutting the length of time by a lot.

Try it out, if you have problems just go to using grain. If not just keep on trucking.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: Juicin]
    #19283983 - 12/16/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

start your lc with an agar wedge, and what do you plan on growing?


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineUncommonSense
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: cronicr]
    #19284017 - 12/16/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

With a little arm twisting, I'm sure I could get some LC of a friends B+ and Burmese, but I want to try my hand with the Golden Teachers. Outside of those, and PE's, I'm not sure if I'm very familiar or have personal experience with any others. Open to any suggestions to research, though!


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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: UncommonSense]
    #19284034 - 12/16/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

alright well cubes then, was just curiuos because BH had an animal grow of pans which lc's are awesome for, i don't use them for cubes but best of luck to you it sounds like you are ready and willing to follow a tek to the t a BH is a good dude to replicate


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineUncommonSense
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: cronicr]
    #19284357 - 12/16/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If they're better for PC's, I'd consider going that route. I wasn't aware that there was a huge difference...


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: UncommonSense]
    #19284368 - 12/16/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

lc's are fine with cubes if there clean but for things like pans they that don't handle a shake as well as cubes lc's are great


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineUncommonSense
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: cronicr]
    #19292774 - 12/18/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Bump for more input?

Would this FC be usable with this Tek? Maybe two bags per tub?


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: UncommonSense]
    #19293236 - 12/18/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know why you insist on making this more complicated than it needs to be. But yes assuming you don't fuck it up that will work

The teks you are linking are not how most of us do things....


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Invisibleindocult
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Re: Getting my ducks in a row, a consulting request [Re: Juicin]
    #19293844 - 12/18/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

140 Cc is a shitload of liquid to be adding. 
I Don't see whats wrong with using. 10-15 cc

You might save a couple weeks by doing this instead of normal spawn to bulk methods..  your yield probably won't be great


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