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Offlinefungihub
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Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 5
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Vertical LFH design
    #19282655 - 12/16/13 07:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hello Shroomery! and greetings to all the mushroom enthusiasts out there.
This is my first post here. Let me start by saying i had spend some time learning about mycology and i have some experience with growing mushrooms or little compared to others. I had cloned and grow mushrooms in the past and dealt also with contaminants (who doesn't).

My goal is to build, step by step, a small scale lab for cloning, propagating and growing gourmet and medicinal mushrooms so i decided i will invest my time and money in building a proper vertical laminar flow hood to ease my work. You can see the design i had in mind.

I ordered:

1) H14 hepa filter 610x305x90mm(24x12x3,6 inch) that has 99,997 efficiency with a flow of 600 m3/h (353 CFM) and 160+/-15 Pa

2) G4 prefilter mat 20mm thick

3) In-Line MMotors VOK-C 150 blower that has 720 m3/h (423 CFM), 2500rpm, 130W, 240V, IP44, 379 PA


I also have a unused 24W UVC germicidal lamp with a 2G11 socket that i will use, some Epomid epoxy paint, some information about the paint right here

For the plenum the goal is to be light and cheap the options i have are: birch plywood, expanded pvc, laminated mdf. I also want to sound isolate the plenum... figuring out the best way to do it.

For the rest of the working chamber i will use some clear plexiglass for the sideways and the top, and do a frame of some kind.

I need some feedback, i want to know if the fan is good for the filter, the drawbacks of the design and what could i do better, also some experienced user advice would be nice.














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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fungihub]
    #19282766 - 12/16/13 08:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I would get a horizontal one


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Offlinefungihub
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Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 5
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fungihub]
    #19282892 - 12/16/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

what is the point of your answer??


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fungihub]
    #19282908 - 12/16/13 09:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Im telling you my recommendation , if you want one get one m its up to you.

horizontal air if I remember correctly is better for mycology but I think vertical is fine


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: Kalypto]
    #19282949 - 12/16/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Vertical hoods are not nearly as good for mycology.  They're hard to do grain to grain transfers with and when you do, any contaminants on your hands or arms will be blown straight down into your sterile media.

Get/build a horizontal flow hood so the contaminants will be blown directly back to you, thus over the top and away from your sterile media.
RR


--------------------
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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlinefungihub
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fungihub]
    #19282992 - 12/16/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No offense but i was waiting for arguments, i'm thinking to go for the vertical design because the working space is greatly improved, it doesn't occupy much space and i thought if i can make it modular i can transport it with ease.

I read what RR said about the horizontal designed flow hoods that work better for mycological work, the turbulence created and contam may be able to land on the work surface but i thought that can be resolved with a proper working technique and i mean about the aseptic technique and the way you handle your tools and equipment.


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Offlinefungihub
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Loc: Europe
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fungihub]
    #19283008 - 12/16/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

RR what about turning off the fan when doing the grain to grain transfer, just turn it on before and after every transfer. What do you think?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fungihub]
    #19284038 - 12/16/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How about asking for experienced advice and then taking it?  There's a reason mycologists don't use vertical flow hoods.  We wear surgical masks and gloves plus tyvek wrist sleeves.  We wash our gloves with alcohol every few minutes, and flame our tools between each and every transfer, while working on a glass surface in front of our sterile flow.

You won't improve on that technique.  Further, after you do your first grain to grain transfer where you need to hold one jar above the other to pour it in, you'll see why you don't want to limit vertical space. 
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlinefungihub
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19284453 - 12/16/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, i value your advice and i understand your point, i thought somehow i could extend my working space because the filter is a bit small to be used horizontally.

Any ideas on how could i improve the working space?
Another idea of mine was to use the filter in a vertical position but direct the flow horizontally by using a diffuser of some sort.
Something like this:



What do you think?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fungihub]
    #19285612 - 12/16/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You don't want turbulent air, you want laminar flow.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fungihub]
    #19306047 - 12/21/13 01:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fungihub said:
No offense but i was waiting for arguments, i'm thinking to go for the vertical design because the working space is greatly improved,




Vertical flow hoods are far superior to other designs in ease of construction, cost, and working space.  They're also far less sensitive to blower and filter requirements.

It's sad to see so many people building outdated 1960's designs because of dogma, just to end up with small expensive hoods.

I've built several and they all worked awesome.

First, ditch the recirculation.  You're not working with dangerous agents.
You want to build it exactly like a fume hood, just with filters and reversed flow.
Use a one-piece front made of plexiglass.  Reinforce the top and bottom with a strip of aluminum or other metal small angle iron. (1/2" or so)  That will also be your handle.  Run that down simple channels cut with a table or circular saw.

Use a plenum filled with polyfill and a furnace filter.  Source a used blower from a local HVAC shop, hopefully for free.


-FF


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It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

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I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fastfred]
    #19310169 - 12/22/13 01:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I forgot to mention on of the best features...  no air constantly blowing in your face.  Makes them much more pleasant to work with.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: fastfred]
    #19310775 - 12/22/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
I forgot to mention on of the best features...  no air constantly blowing in your face.  Makes them much more pleasant to work with.




matter of preference


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OfflineSnowArcher
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: Kalypto]
    #19351287 - 12/31/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I picked up a 4' vertical hood at auction for $100 - keep your eyes open for these deals. 

That being said, I would NEVER use it for grain work, only agar and LC, which I find preferable because of the ease of work space.  However, I have to be really careful with the downward flow.  Everything you need to do can be done as well or better with a horizontal hood and many things will require one so you really should start there.  Grain work in a vertical hood is asking for contam.


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: Vertical LFH design [Re: SnowArcher]
    #19373385 - 01/05/14 02:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i have used both vertical and horizontal laminar flows, i have not seen any difference in contamination rates, in the end if you can buy a $100 VFH or a $500 HFH, go with the $100 equipment and use the $400 on other equipment.


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