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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: psyconaught]
#19279788 - 12/15/13 03:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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How could he make a living without it?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Diploid]
#19280105 - 12/15/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: That'd be far too sensible.
I thought you were a prohibitionist. Did you change your mind or did I have it wrong??
I've never supported arresting and jailing people for possession of drugs, though. I've said many times that it shouldn't be a crime.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Enlil] 1
#19280543 - 12/15/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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But you do support the abducting of peaceful drug users, at gunpoint by thugs with badges if necessary, to compel them into residential drug treatment even if they have harmed no one.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Diploid]
#19280580 - 12/15/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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How do you think he makes a living? If drug laws go away he will have a lot fewer clients.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: zappaisgod]
#19280598 - 12/15/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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He makes a living practicing law in the same way you make a living doing what you do. I'm sure he has nothing to do with drugs being illegal.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Icelander]
#19280640 - 12/15/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: He makes a living practicing law in the same way you make a living doing what you do. I'm sure he has nothing to do with drugs being illegal.
He makes a significant portion of his living defending people arrested for drugs. If drugs become legal he will lose a significant portion of his potential clientele. I could increase my potential work load by torching houses but I don't advocate arson. Instead of torching houses the drug laws are torching lives and creating work for lawyers and jailors.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Diploid]
#19280852 - 12/15/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: But you do support the abducting of peaceful drug users, at gunpoint by thugs with badges if necessary, to compel them into residential drug treatment even if they have harmed no one.
No, but feel free to put words in my mouth.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: zappaisgod]
#19280869 - 12/15/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
He makes a significant portion of his living defending people arrested for drugs. If drugs become legal he will lose a significant portion of his potential clientele.
As I said before, I don't support criminal prosecution of anyone for possession. This is true even though a significant amount of my work was defending people prosecuted for possession.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Diploid]
#19280920 - 12/15/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I'm using that word as a figure of speech, not literelly. This kid got away DUI manslaughter or something along those lines.
Really good lawyers like to get paid. This isnt old news
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Enlil]
#19281019 - 12/15/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No, but feel free to put words in my mouth.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17567513#17567513
Quote:
Enlil said: I don't see forced treatment as punishment...diploid does. We're never going to agree on that point...
Drug addiction is the antithesis of autonomy and/or freedom. Forcibly treating a heroin addict, while clearly restricting autonomy temporarily can have the effect of giving a person back his autonomy in the long-run.
That reads to me like you are in favor of forced treatment of drug users who have harmed no one. So let's clear this up because I'd like to stand corrected if I'm wrong. Do you or do you not support any case of forced treatment of peaceful drug users?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: zappaisgod]
#19281052 - 12/15/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Icelander said: He makes a living practicing law in the same way you make a living doing what you do. I'm sure he has nothing to do with drugs being illegal.
He makes a significant portion of his living defending people arrested for drugs. If drugs become legal he will lose a significant portion of his potential clientele. I could increase my potential work load by torching houses but I don't advocate arson. Instead of torching houses the drug laws are torching lives and creating work for lawyers and jailors.
And what does he have to do with the creation of these laws???? His job is to defend people who are being charged with crimes, whatever they are. Relating what he does to torching houses doesn't make much sense. 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Diploid]
#19281083 - 12/15/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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As I have said many times, I wouldn't rule out forced treatment if it is proven effective and necessary. I would never, however, force treatment at gunpoint as you suggested earlier.
This is, of course, completely off topic.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Enlil]
#19281097 - 12/15/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wouldn't rule out forced treatment
Translation: You do support the abducting of peaceful drug users, at gunpoint by thugs with badges if necessary, to compel them into residential drug treatment even if they have harmed no one.
I would never, however, force treatment at gunpoint as you suggested earlier.
How the fuck else does society force someone to do something they are unwilling to do? Use harsh language?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Diploid]
#19281124 - 12/15/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are plenty of ways. People are civilly committed every day in this country without anyone pulling a gun. The threat of deadly force is antithetical to the goal of helping someone.
We've gone back and forth on this plenty of times, and every time you resort to straw man argument by ascribing a position to me that I do not advocate. I'm not going to participate in more of the same in this thread about a drunk driver who got probation for manslaughter.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Enlil]
#19281160 - 12/15/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are plenty of ways. People are civilly committed every day in this country without anyone pulling a gun.
How? Stop beating around the bush. Tell me exactly how I would be forced to into an involuntary drug treatment program I absolutely refuse to enter if not by police force.
I'm not going to participate
That's because your insistence that someone can be forced to do something without applying force is full of shit and you know it. So you run and hide instead of defend your argument or face up to the fact that you are a prohibitionist who agrees with morality laws and the forcible abduction and confinement of peaceful drug users who use in the privacy of their home and bother no one.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Diploid]
#19281220 - 12/15/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not at all, but you're welcome to assume all you want. It appears to be your modus operandi on this topic, anyway.
I've given you many hours of my time on this topic, mostly because you generally have proven to be a rational thinker. On this topic, however, you're anything but. There is no having a rational discussion with you because you are incapable of doing so without tacking all of your assumptions to everything I say.
At some point in the last discussion, I realized that you're far too personally invested in the topic to discuss it reasonably. Everything I say gets "translated" into tons of things that I never said, and then I'm in the position to defend all of those things that you claim I said. It's exhausting and pointless.
Truthfully, if I thought there was even a scintilla of hope that you could approach the topic objectively, professionally, and rationally, I'd probably spend another 10 hours going back and forth with you. That hope died many months ago, though, and I see no point in continuing.
Feel free, however, to assume whatever you want of me...up to, and including, that I advocate sacrificing puppies to Cthulu....Don't let reason or truth get in the way of a good story.
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Diploid
Cuban



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Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Enlil] 2
#19281262 - 12/15/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Blah, blah, blah. 
Translation: I, in fact, can't tell you how society can force someone into an involuntary drug treatment program they absolutely refuse to enter without using police force. So instead of answering your simple question, I'll type up a long non-answer to muddy the water and hope nobody notices that I am an avowed prohibitionist.
Got it. Thanks for confirming what already knew.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,967
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Diploid]
#19281266 - 12/15/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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And thank you for illustrating my last post in an excellent fashion.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Enlil]
#19281282 - 12/15/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You know, you can shut me up really easily by simply answering my question. How does society force someone to do something they absolutely will not do? It would take a lot less time and effort to answer than to write all that irrelevant crap you've been writing.
Why, pray tell, won't you answer unless you know there is no answer and I've painted you into a corner your ego won't allow you to acknowledge?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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ManianFH
living in perverty


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Re: Affluenza: The Wealthy Getting Away With Murder [Re: Diploid]
#19281815 - 12/15/13 11:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Maybe so but his yelling "I am Ethan Couch! I'll get out of this!" after the crash is very telling.
haha i gotta use that line one of these days. this is no new story in my opinion. wealthy people can afford better attorneys, thus better loopholes. kind of common sense. its not just america, you can find that type of behavior pretty much anywhere.
this is specifically why I do not ride my bike WITH the flow of traffic. i dont trust sober people, much less a drunken teenager
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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