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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19279184 - 12/15/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
America actually has the highest violent crime and murder rates out of any 1st world civilization. You're not making a very good argument here if you're going to claim that so and so doesn't cause violence.





lol... that would be really funny if it were true

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Mescalean]
    #19279189 - 12/15/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Was just a question based off curiousity. My line of thinking was why is a peaceful, non violent society looked at as so hight evolution. That violence is for the dim witted when biology states the opposite almost.

And sensitivity was meant as the whole politically correct world we're all living in today.




Non-violent ideologies keep the masses in-line, we wouldn't have workers rights without violence, or a constitution.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Konichiwaffle]
    #19279195 - 12/15/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Konichiwaffle said:
Quote:

by the ridiculous claims in this thread, 90% of the people in the US should
be addicted to drugs, abusing their own kids, raping, killing and robbing
everyone around them... seems the 'studies' have a few major flaws
regarding the causes and the outcomes





I believe you have radically twisted any claims that I am at least aware of were made in this thread.  Personally, I never once said anything remotely related to this.  If you're pointing the finger at me, then I doubt you really paid any attention to the studies I had posted.





really you havent said much of anything other than spankings make for 'mentally ill' adults

you cite these studies as though there's some real scientific basis behind
them but we have no explanation as to why such a small percentage of the
population is consisting of drug addicts and criminals when 90% were spanked


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19279197 - 12/15/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
how many people in the US are out committing crimes, killing people and
doing what ever, now tell us how many of those people were spanked, you
guys keep tossing this shit up as though it's cause and effect without
looking at it. how many people were spanked as kids and today live happy,
normal lives?

by the ridiculous claims in this thread, 90% of the people in the US should
be addicted to drugs, abusing their own kids, raping, killing and robbing
everyone around them... seems the 'studies' have a few major flaws
regarding the causes and the outcomes




When you think of violent crimes, you're obviously only thinking about things such as robbery, stranger rapes, and murder.

However, if you look at the high incidence of domestic violence, and parents who in turn beat their own kids, then it's not difficult to see where it all stems from.

Some men who commit domestic violence also believe they are doing it out of the good for their partner, that their partner needs to be "kept in line" and "know her place." How is this any different from hitting a kid for the same reasons? Why do we consider it okay for children, but not adults?

Quote:


really? why cant you believe it, it was stated by a doctor




I can't believe it because I cannot conceive of a situation where a 3 year old would need to get spanked multiple times a week.

Quote:

maybe you have a completely different view as to what corporal punishment is
it doesnt have to involve a club, a stick or even a belt but a simple,
quick pop in the butt is still a spanking and yes, it's quite plausible
when you look at it from the factual side




If you do it that soft though, is it even effective? I know that my dad and grandma spanked me a couple times as a kid when I was being REALLY bad, but his spankings were literally nothing compared to what my mom gave me, so I just laughed in his face whenever he did it.

If I was a teenage girl with a social life, I'd rather just have a light spanking rather than getting grounded and not being able to see my boyfriend or friend for two weeks.


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19279208 - 12/15/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
America actually has the highest violent crime and murder rates out of any 1st world civilization. You're not making a very good argument here if you're going to claim that so and so doesn't cause violence.





lol... that would be really funny if it were true

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html




I know what the title says

But that is all crime not violent crime, we are number 1 in violent crime. And certainly murder.


That link includes ALL crimes, after a little research most countries don't keep track of "violent crime" the same way. Some like Australia don't even have that broad of a category. So comparison statistics are apparently hard to come by. But if you think any Euros or Australians outside the eastern block are hurting each other at the rate we do you're nuts.

Not that I would make the argument that corporal punishment for children is the reason for that. But we are certainly a much more violent culture than most other developed nations.


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Mescalean]
    #19279223 - 12/15/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you hit your kid, you are a shit parent.  If that's the only way you get them to listen, then what is that teaching them? That they only have to listen when you hit them. Perpetuating the cycle.

They're kids. They fuck up, they do the wrong thing even when you tell them the right thing. Instead of slapping them to teach them a lesson, you should, you know, teach them the lesson. But that involves time and energy and parenting.

If you want to raise an animal, treat your kid like one. If you want to raise a human being, treat your kid like a human being.


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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Lynnch]
    #19279249 - 12/15/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

slapping a kid's butt for stealing cookies is not immoral and a buncha ____(insert insulting phrase) are not gonna convince me otherwise.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19279254 - 12/15/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
and yes, children that were spanked are more likely to hit other kids




Yes. And you know who taught me that? The same person that also taught me that you can stop a child from throwing a tantrum by hugging them and holding them until they quiet down. And that when you hit children, the message they most often perceive is that you don't love them. Not that they did something wrong.

Just try it next time your kid has a tantrum in public. I'll bet you anything that it works.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19279263 - 12/15/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
and yes, children that were spanked are more likely to hit other kids




Yes. And you know who taught me that? The same person that also taught me that you can stop a child from throwing a tantrum by hugging them and holding them until they quiet down. And that when you hit children, the message they most often perceive is that you don't love them. Not that they did something wrong.

Just try it next time your kid has a tantrum in public. I'll bet you anything that it works.




I also forgot to add, that it works on adults too. I remember one time in college my best friend was SUPER mad at me, like completely irate because I showed up to pick her up like 10 minutes late. (She was bipolar by the way.) She was so furious that she was thinking about completely blowing off our plans for the night. So while she was screaming and on the verge of tears, I simply hugged her and held onto her, and she quietly calmed down and got in the car.

I remember an ex of mine calmed me down one time doing the same thing. I didn't even realize what he was doing until after I calmed down, he told me that he hugged me on person to get me to stop fuming.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #19279274 - 12/15/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Excellent choice..reward bad behavior


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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19279283 - 12/15/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
and yes, children that were spanked are more likely to hit other kids




Yes. And you know who taught me that? The same person that also taught me that you can stop a child from throwing a tantrum by hugging them and holding them until they quiet down. And that when you hit children, the message they most often perceive is that you don't love them. Not that they did something wrong.

Just try it next time your kid has a tantrum in public. I'll bet you anything that it works.




I also forgot to add, that it works on adults too. I remember one time in college my best friend was SUPER mad at me, like completely irate because I showed up to pick her up like 10 minutes late. (She was bipolar by the way.) She was so furious that she was thinking about completely blowing off our plans for the night. So while she was screaming and on the verge of tears, I simply hugged her and held onto her, and she quietly calmed down and got in the car.

I remember an ex of mine calmed me down one time doing the same thing. I didn't even realize what he was doing until after I calmed down, he told me that he hugged me on person to get me to stop fuming.



I bet a nice slap would've calmed her down too :smirk: I definitely don't agree with this lol


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
    #19279284 - 12/15/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Excellent choice..reward bad behavior




It's not rewarding anything. People act out and lash out because there is something INTERNALLY that causes them to act out like that. When you embrace them, it either confuses them or satiates whatever is going on internally enough for them to cease the tantrum. It is just as, if not more effective, and causes less mental problems than spanking.

Even though not 100% of people who are hit as children grow up to be bad... why on earth would you even take that risk? What if your kid ends up being the one who is?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19279304 - 12/15/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
how many people in the US are out committing crimes, killing people and
doing what ever, now tell us how many of those people were spanked, you
guys keep tossing this shit up as though it's cause and effect without
looking at it. how many people were spanked as kids and today live happy,
normal lives?

by the ridiculous claims in this thread, 90% of the people in the US should
be addicted to drugs, abusing their own kids, raping, killing and robbing
everyone around them... seems the 'studies' have a few major flaws
regarding the causes and the outcomes




When you think of violent crimes, you're obviously only thinking about things such as robbery, stranger rapes, and murder.




no, that's you trying to do the thinking for me, it doesnt work that way, I
also consider domestic violence, and simple assaults to be violent crimes
while robbery doesnt have to be since burglary is also robbery but it can
be a vacant home being robbed

clearly you shouldnt be trying to tell me what I'm thinking



Quote:

However, if you look at the high incidence of domestic violence, and parents who in turn beat their own kids, then it's not difficult to see where it all stems from.




where does it stem from since the majority of americans have never even
been in a physical altercation, dont beat their kids or their spouse, have
never been arrested, never robbed someone and maybe most have stolen
something but those tend not to be violent crimes

Quote:

Some men who commit domestic violence also believe they are doing it out of the good for their partner, that their partner needs to be "kept in line" and "know her place." How is this any different from hitting a kid for the same reasons? Why do we consider it okay for children, but not adults?]




oh, so it's men that are the problem

plan on giving us an answer as to why it's acceptable to hit a teen but not spank a toddler?

Quote:

Quote:


really? why cant you believe it, it was stated by a doctor




I can't believe it because I cannot conceive of a situation where a 3 year old would need to get spanked multiple times a week.





were you not the one that devised the 'emergency spanking'

Quote:

Quote:

maybe you have a completely different view as to what corporal punishment is
it doesnt have to involve a club, a stick or even a belt but a simple,
quick pop in the butt is still a spanking and yes, it's quite plausible
when you look at it from the factual side




If you do it that soft though, is it even effective? I know that my dad and grandma spanked me a couple times as a kid when I was being REALLY bad, but his spankings were literally nothing compared to what my mom gave me, so I just laughed in his face whenever he did it.





that soft? remember the constant mention that maybe it's not the spanking
that's the cause of society's ills? that maybe it was poor parenting, you
seem to think that a spanking has to be abusive, that it needs to hurt in
order to be effective. my mom certainly didnt have to spank me hard to get
her point across. it didnt hurt, what hurt was knowing the disappointment I
caused my mom with some of my actions and that was more effective than the
spanking but the two went hand in hand, without the spanking I wouldnt have
seen that disappointment

Quote:

If I was a teenage girl with a social life, I'd rather just have a light spanking rather than getting grounded and not being able to see my boyfriend or friend for two weeks.





yet you advocate hitting teens? why is that? I personally understand that
punishments need to develop as a child does, that a spanking isnt as
effective on older kids and teens as it is in toddlers and young kids but
more importantly I understand that regardless of the methods I use it's far
more important to talk with your kids about the things they've done and why
it's resulting in some form of punishment

I believe I've spanked my son about 10 times in 10 years, the last time
being about 5 years ago, my daughter is a little more defiant, she's not
been spanked in 2 years, I suspect I wont ever have to spank either of them
again because as they mature their level of understanding right from wrong
has been developing and I've adjusted they way I've disciplined them
accordingly. this comes from someone that was abused as a kid.


yet you're the one that advocates hitting a teen... once more, would you
care to explain that so we can have an understanding or do you just
advocate abuse of older children as opposed to the immediate correction of
behavioral problems in younger children


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Invisiblethoughts
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19279312 - 12/15/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Can we all just agree that i'm right and stfu.:snub:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19279317 - 12/15/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
plan on giving us an answer as to why it's acceptable to hit a teen but not spank a toddler?




I already stated to you multiple times. I'd say it's only acceptable if the teen hits you first, and teens are able to process why you hit them back because of it. They don't live in fear or trauma in the same way that children do after they get hit. I've stated this multiple times, yet you keep asking the same questions.

Quote:


were you not the one that devised the 'emergency spanking'




No that was not me, somebody else originally devised it.

Quote:


that soft? remember the constant mention that maybe it's not the spanking
that's the cause of society's ills? that maybe it was poor parenting, you
seem to think that a spanking has to be abusive, that it needs to hurt in
order to be effective. my mom certainly didnt have to spank me hard to get
her point across. it didnt hurt, what hurt was knowing the disappointment I
caused my mom with some of my actions and that was more effective than the
spanking but the two went hand in hand, without the spanking I wouldnt have
seen that disappointment




What do you mean you couldn't have seen the disappointment without the spanking. You couldn't see it through your mother's facial expressions and sorrow and behaviors and actions?

Quote:


I believe I've spanked my son about 10 times in 10 years, the last time
being about 5 years ago, my daughter is a little more defiant, she's not
been spanked in 2 years, I suspect I wont ever have to spank either of them
again because as they mature their level of understanding right from wrong
has been developing and I've adjusted they way I've disciplined them
accordingly. this comes from someone that was abused as a kid.




Exactly. If you raise them right while they're young, you most likely won't have to hit them as teenagers. But you never know, sometimes hormones have the capacity to alter somebody's mood and mind-state to a complete 180.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19279321 - 12/15/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Even though not 100% of people who are hit as children grow up to be bad...





what percent of children that were spanked as kids do grow up to be bad?


Quote:

why on earth would you even take that risk? What if your kid ends up being the one who is?




what risk, the risk of seen that you're a shitty parent and spanking wasnt
the cause, dont you think that spanking a teen is more likely to cause these
sorts of problems since their cognitive functions are much higher and they
have a greater capacity for resentment and rebellion which would cause them
to lash out

you guys seem to have the cart before the horse


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19279324 - 12/15/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The thing about children is this...

Children seek approval from their parents. Children's number 1 heroes are their parents. Children WANT to make their parents happy, and hate to disappoint or anger their parents. Therefore, hitting is simply not necessary to get your point across. If you foster and play on their emotions, you can direct them into doing what is right simply by using their conscience or their guilt.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G] * 6
    #19279330 - 12/15/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The childless parenting expert speaks.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19279332 - 12/15/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Exactly. If you raise them right while they're young, you most likely won't have to hit them as teenagers.





so what you're saying is that spanking isnt the problem, that shitty
parenting is but you still advocate hitting teens... is it some perverse
pleasure you derive from it?

Quote:

Quote:

were you not the one that devised the 'emergency spanking'




No that was not me, somebody else originally devised it




and yet, you're the one that cited it, you didnt even give credit where it was due

you're probably going to need to be spanked for this


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
    #19279341 - 12/15/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The childless parenting expert speaks.




I have attained all of this information from the mother with the master's degree in child behavior. I used to be a fan of corporal punishment.


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