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SuperSillyUs
Proud 'Shitbird'. ®

Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 326
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: bodhisatta]
#19279033 - 12/15/13 11:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ah, good point. Maybe it was low humidity? a trigger for spore drops? Or am I mistaken with that, too? Sometimes I get confused... Thanks for the correction.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: SuperSillyUs] 1
#19279133 - 12/15/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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When there's a bunch of mushrooms on a small substrate, the mushrooms are going to be small. That's how it works. Pick the cake up and you can tell from the weight if it's either too wet or too dry from moisture loss. If neither, then what you see is what you get. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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SuperSillyUs
Proud 'Shitbird'. ®

Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 326
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19279234 - 12/15/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So, running out of food would be a sporulating 'trigger'. That makes evolutionary sense. "Food is running out here, let me shoot my children into the wind so they can travel far away in search of more..."
Not sure where I got the idea that 'too much fresh air' triggers spore drops? Maybe some old mushroom growing book, but probably just have myself to blame.
Anyways, wondering if there's other (lesser) stimuli that initiates that spore flinging / veil ripping action. Such as darkness, maybe lack of fresh air exchange, etc.
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Psilicon
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: SuperSillyUs] 1
#19279262 - 12/15/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Running out of water, you mean. There's more food in that cake than your mushrooms could ever use, but eventually the mycelium will become weakened and either a mold or a secondary fungus will be able to contaminate.
If it sporulated when it ran out of food, there would never be a second flush. But since I've seen cakes go as high as five flushes personally, I can say with some certainty that's not the case.
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"


Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: Psilicon]
#19279275 - 12/15/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Alright thanks guys I really appreciate the advice. Yeah RR I wondered about that I remember you saying that before, but my pin set wasn't amazing or anything.
I am using a 6500k CFL 30 watt so I should be good on lighting.
It felt a bit dry for sure. I picked it up after the harvest. Wasn't super light or anything. I don't have anything to compare it to since this is the first time.
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Psilicon
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: d0urd3n]
#19279293 - 12/15/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Compare it to what it felt like when you took it out of its dunk and put it into the chamber the first time, or compare it to what you think a plastic bag full of water the same size as your cake would weigh.
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"


Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: Psilicon]
#19279300 - 12/15/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah probably pretty dry then. Dunked for 25 hours though so not sure how I could have prevented this. I guess by putting in a saucer like mentioned earlier. I figured they would be fine since they fruited so fast. Well at least that cake did.
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SuperSillyUs
Proud 'Shitbird'. ®

Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 326
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: Psilicon]
#19279430 - 12/15/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's good to know. And interesting. Thanks.
I assume the same is true for straight rye? Even though it's not quite as nutritious as brown rice flour and vermiculite?
Also, fruit body productions tires the organism...faster than g2g?
Sorry to 'hijack' your thread, d0urd3n. Sorry, sorry... Just wanted to get those last questions in...just in case anyone wanted to answer 'em.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: d0urd3n]
#19279748 - 12/15/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
d0urd3n said: Yeah probably pretty dry then. Dunked for 25 hours though so not sure how I could have prevented this. I guess by putting in a saucer like mentioned earlier. I figured they would be fine since they fruited so fast. Well at least that cake did.
If you're giving the correct amount of fresh air, your cakes will dry out, even after dunking. This is a major pinning trigger, so always give lots of air. You just have to mist enough to allow the cakes to recover their moisture content. Let them dry out somewhat, and then mist to replace it. You can also pile some verm on top of the cake and soak it mid flush if necessary. Or, the saucer trick works well too. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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d0urd3n
Just call me "D"


Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 5,237
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19279782 - 12/15/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Great thanks for the info and tips RR. Your videos helped me out tremendously, btw. I will definitely test out those techniques you mentioned.
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SuperSillyUs
Proud 'Shitbird'. ®

Registered: 12/14/13
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Re: What is causing premature veil tearing and how to stop it (cakes) [Re: Psilicon]
#19282563 - 12/16/13 06:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said: Running out of water, you mean. There's more food in that cake than your mushrooms could ever use, but eventually the mycelium will become weakened and either a mold or a secondary fungus will be able to contaminate.
If it sporulated when it ran out of food, there would never be a second flush. But since I've seen cakes go as high as five flushes personally, I can say with some certainty that's not the case.
^^^This makes sense, with the second / third / fourth flushing thing as you're not adding more nutrition between 'flushes', mainly more water. (Not that they grow strictly in flushes anyways. Reminds me of 'Gen-X', Gen-Y, etc. Demographers act like human populations take a break from reproducing between 'generations'. They don't.) Anyways, mycelium running out of water = weird. There must be quite a bit in the substrate but I guess the fruit bodies are 90% water so...still makes sense, even to me. As thick as I am. 
===► Not sure 'running out of nutrition' stimulates pinning?? As mentioned below.
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: I've been meaning to post this for a while but had no pictures. Now with a half-dozen PE tubs on the way, I have plenty of time for showing how I case a tub.
Quote:
Gretchenmeister said: Casings do this:
1. Protect colonized substrate from drying out. 2. Provide a microclimate favorable for primordia formation. 3. Provide moisture for mushroom growth. 4. Promotes stimulation of pinning by signaling mycellium it is out of nutrition and time to reproduce.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18880716#18880716
Not sure why FrankHorrigan quoted Gretchenmeister, if he agrees with him/her or not...putting aside the 'stimulates pinning' part: I'm just curious if this ( running out of nutrition) is 'old/wrong information' even though it was posted a little while back. Interested, personally, because I use relatively limited nutrition substrates like straight rye grain. Because it's so damn simple and that's what I like to use, not interested in changing. Maybe this is why I get only 2 - 3 'flushes' between dunks, then it just kinda stalls then contaminates? ...Lack of nutrition?
Or, as asked earlier:
Quote:
...fruit body production tires the organism...faster than g2g?
Thanks for any light anyone can shed.
Edited by SuperSillyUs (12/16/13 06:51 AM)
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