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dionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad


Registered: 08/27/13
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Favorite Biblical Book (s)?
#19278675 - 12/15/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Please not that I am no longer Christian and haven't studied in quite awhile (aside from forays into Gnosticism and Hermetic/Ceremonial Magick) but I'd be interested in knowing what some of your favorite Biblical books are and why?
1. Leviticus: Because the RULES oh the rules. I admit to being a bitch with a hard on for structure and I find the ancient Judaic laws to be fascinating in their own rightt even if I never grew up with them. Some of the laws are obviously "cultural" more than "spiritual" I chuckle upon reading them but if one goes with the theory that Israelites may have been Canaanites themselves, the need to differentiate makes a lot of sense.
2. Revelations: For its apocalyptic description which, when taken out of context, would make an excellent movie on its own.
3. The Book of Wisdom: Though not included in the KJV it is found in some Catholic bibles and is useful just for the practical advice given. The same applies to Proverbs as well, for me at least. I must admit, even as a pagan woman, I still look to Proverbs 31 from time to time.
4. Song of Songs: Because I like porn. Even poetic, crappily pieced together, porn. Except 50 Shades. Wasn't a fan of that. LOL!
-------------------- He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.
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all this beauty
Stranger
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All the favorites you list are good.
Leviticus is a particularly fascinating read. You read through the various "do's" and "don'ts" and wonder why oh why did they came up with that particular list.
Some of it is just plain old intuitive common sense, some of it was based on the realities and necessities of the day (i.e., relevant then, but not today), and some of it is just a bunch of horny straight guys coming up with "divine" decrees designed to facilitate their easy access to female vaginas.
Great stuff.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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Ecclesiastes because it sounds the most realistic.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: White Beard]
#19279412 - 12/15/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Icelander]
#19279468 - 12/15/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The Gospel of Thomas
Oh wait, this book got rejected by the power and control-hungry editors of the Bible because its gnostic ideas contradicted their wish to ensure a priest was necessary to intermediate between God and humans.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Kickle
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: deCypher]
#19279508 - 12/15/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ecclesiastes and Job
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Kickle]
#19279687 - 12/15/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- ...or something
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: deCypher]
#19280494 - 12/15/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: The Gospel of Thomas
Oh wait, this book got rejected by the power and control-hungry editors of the Bible because its gnostic ideas contradicted their wish to ensure a priest was necessary to intermediate between God and humans. 
I read this Gospel and don't understand why this got banned..It seems very similar to the four Gospels that made the cut..And I believe it's theorized to be older than all the other Gospels as well.
Maybe The Gnostic Elder that floats in this forum can enlighten me/us?
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Eddeee
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: cez]
#19280498 - 12/15/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Enoch and Jasher
-------------------- Don't read books study life then write books we are nothing but atoms trying to figure out what atoms are.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: cez]
#19280502 - 12/15/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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And Gospel Of Truth off gnosis.com has some very cool concepts. An interesting juxtaposition from this book and The Bible is in this book it states Jesus' crucifixion is actually The Tree Of Knowledge..Idk why I find this so...
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Deviate
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: deCypher]
#19281660 - 12/15/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: The Gospel of Thomas
Oh wait, this book got rejected by the power and control-hungry editors of the Bible because its gnostic ideas contradicted their wish to ensure a priest was necessary to intermediate between God and humans. 
How did you reach this conclusion? I have studied the new testament and don't recall coming across this teaching. On the contrary, St. Paul makes it explicitly clear that there is one intermediary between God and humans:
"For there is one God. There is also one meditator between God and man, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself as a ransom for all"
1 Timothy ch. 2.
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fivepointer
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19306515 - 12/21/13 05:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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These are not scripture:
Book of Wisdom Gospel of Thomas Gospel of Mary Magdalen Book of Enoch Book of Jasher Gospel Of Truth
God knows how to preserve His Word against false writings.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: fivepointer] 1
#19306516 - 12/21/13 05:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Book of Fivepointer
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19307476 - 12/21/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
deCypher said: The Gospel of Thomas
Oh wait, this book got rejected by the power and control-hungry editors of the Bible because its gnostic ideas contradicted their wish to ensure a priest was necessary to intermediate between God and humans. 
How did you reach this conclusion? I have studied the new testament and don't recall coming across this teaching. On the contrary, St. Paul makes it explicitly clear that there is one intermediary between God and humans:
"For there is one God. There is also one meditator between God and man, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself as a ransom for all"
1 Timothy ch. 2.
This is a Catholic teaching, and one of the major reasons for the Protestant Reformation. There are many sources out there if you want to read up on it, but here's a nice outline I pulled from a quick Google skim:
Quote:
Within the Christian religion, men have added other mediators in addition to Jesus Christ. I would like to mention just a few of these; perhaps others can add cases to the list which I have left out. However, these are cases of instances in which man must approach God through some mediator in addition to Christ. 1. The Catholic Priest. The Catholic system of worship places the priest between God and man as the dispenser of salvation. He has the right to grant absolution from sins. Absolution, in Roman theology, is the act by which the priest declares the sins of penitent persons to be remitted to them. The Council of Trent gave the priest the right to remit the sins of penitent sinners. Hence, the Catholic who sins must go to the confessional booth, confess his sins, and allow the Catholic priest to absolve him of the guilt of his sins. One of the major doctrines which Protestantism rebelled against was the doctrine which gave the priest the right to forgive sins. Whereas Catholicism has a standing priesthood in distinction to the laity, Protestantism believes in the priesthood of all believers. According to Protestantism, every Christian has direct accessibility to God and can get forgiveness by appealing directly to God for it. We need no mediator other than or in addition to Jesus Christ. Quite properly, the Protestants emphasized that there is only one mediator between God arid man.
http://www.truthmagazine.com/archives/volume21/TM021186.html
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Deviate
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: deCypher]
#19307503 - 12/21/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Excuse me? I asked how you reached the conclusion that the gospel of thomas was left out of the Bible because of what it said about the need for priests.
your response in no way answers that question. On the contrary, the fact that protestants read the same new testament and don't interpret it as saying there is a need for priests points away from the idea that the Bible was edited to say that.
Edited by Deviate (12/21/13 11:26 AM)
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dionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad


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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Icelander]
#19307615 - 12/21/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Book of Fivepointer
Love it. LOL!
-------------------- He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.
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dionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad


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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: cez]
#19307636 - 12/21/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: And Gospel Of Truth off gnosis.com has some very cool concepts. An interesting juxtaposition from this book and The Bible is in this book it states Jesus' crucifixion is actually The Tree Of Knowledge..Idk why I find this so...
I haven't even hard of this book but I will have to check it out now.
Are any of you familiar with the writings of Louis Claude de Saint-Martin? I've just started reading through some of his Maxims and I find his philosophies intriguing.
Considering the amount of spiritual reflection found in some gnostic and esoteric brances of Christianity, I wonder why more Christians aren't drawn to them? They seem more fulfilling in the way they expect man to reflect upon himself and his relationship with god. It's less about "obedience" and more about "discovery" of all that their god has given them. A world full of wonders, many of which we are just beginning to truly grasp. Why not get caught up in the euphoria?
-------------------- He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.
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all this beauty
Stranger
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Quote:
dionysiandame said: A world full of wonders, many of which we are just beginning to truly grasp. Why not get caught up in the euphoria?
Good question. But of course, "euphoria" is not the name of the institutional religion game. "Control" is.
"Euphoria" is a direct threat to the ruling class of priests and gurus. With euphoria comes empowerment and with empowerment comes freedom of thought -- and freedom of thought can easily bring down the whole goddamn institutional religion house of cards.
Drugs like LSD are illegal because the ruling class of priests and gurus know that when you see what you're potentially able to see on those drugs, you'll be much less inclined to surrender your intellect to the CHURCH ("CHURCH," understood broadly) and to kiss the asses of its rulers.
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Deviate
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I think legalization of LSD would benefit all those who make their living through the spiritual business.
Look at what happened in the 1960s, with the widespread use of psychedelics all of a sudden you have great public interest emerging in spirituality. What do all these confused people who saw God on their trip do? They rush off to find a guru, priest or teacher, someone who can tell them how to maintain the experience.
I was someone who wouldn't give an ear to priests prior to drug experimentation, next thing I know I am going to prayer meetings.
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deCypher



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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19307847 - 12/21/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: Excuse me? I asked how you reached the conclusion that the gospel of thomas was left out of the Bible because of what it said about the need for priests.
your response in no way answers that question. On the contrary, the fact that protestants read the same new testament and don't interpret it as saying there is a need for priests points away from the idea that the Bible was edited to say that.
Have you read the Gospel of Thomas? Its entire message is one of finding the Kingdom of Heaven/God from within; something that Catholicism rejects. Any system of organized religion that requires the existence of a priest who intermediates between man and God will be against any alternative belief-system of individual salvation.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Deviate
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Quote:
dionysiandame said:
Quote:
cez said: And Gospel Of Truth off gnosis.com has some very cool concepts. An interesting juxtaposition from this book and The Bible is in this book it states Jesus' crucifixion is actually The Tree Of Knowledge..Idk why I find this so...
I haven't even hard of this book but I will have to check it out now.
Are any of you familiar with the writings of Louis Claude de Saint-Martin? I've just started reading through some of his Maxims and I find his philosophies intriguing.
Considering the amount of spiritual reflection found in some gnostic and esoteric brances of Christianity, I wonder why more Christians aren't drawn to them? They seem more fulfilling in the way they expect man to reflect upon himself and his relationship with god. It's less about "obedience" and more about "discovery" of all that their god has given them. A world full of wonders, many of which we are just beginning to truly grasp. Why not get caught up in the euphoria?
Getting caught up in the euphoria only leads to let down and disappointment when it inevitably dissipates. A quiet of life of obedience is actually a better a much better approach then getting caught up in anything euphoric or wonderful in my experience. Not to say that there is anything wrong with that, its perfectly ok, but a life of quiet obedience is perfectly ok also.
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all this beauty
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19307902 - 12/21/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: I think legalization of LSD would benefit all those who make their living through the spiritual business.
Look at what happened in the 1960s, with the widespread use of psychedelics all of a sudden you have great public interest emerging in spirituality. What do all these confused people who saw God on their trip do? They rush off to find a guru, priest or teacher, someone who can tell them how to maintain the experience.
I was someone who wouldn't give an ear to priests prior to drug experimentation, next thing I know I am going to prayer meetings.
I respect your experience, but my experience was somewhat different.
When I had my first lollapalooza mystical extravaganza on LSD, the first thing I did was empty the bookstores of all their stuff on the subject. This was the late-60s / early-70s, so my timing was exquisite. Leary and Alpert and Watts were at their creative heights. Their writings echoed and confirmed my experience.
I generally avoid "places of worship" now -- keen to the hoaxes so frequently perpetrated in them.
"Prayer groups" can be useful -- but only, I think, for the very spiritually adept.
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all this beauty
Stranger
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: deCypher] 1
#19307947 - 12/21/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Any system of organized religion that requires the existence of a priest who intermediates between man and God will be against any alternative belief-system of individual salvation.
WORD !!
No "intermediaries." "Intermediaries" are red flags.
Your church / mosque / synagogue / temple teaches a doctrine of "intermediaries"?
THEN GET YOUR FUCKIN' ASS OUTTA THERE.
And quickly.
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cez

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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: deCypher]
#19307976 - 12/21/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Deviate said: Excuse me? I asked how you reached the conclusion that the gospel of thomas was left out of the Bible because of what it said about the need for priests.
your response in no way answers that question. On the contrary, the fact that protestants read the same new testament and don't interpret it as saying there is a need for priests points away from the idea that the Bible was edited to say that.
Have you read the Gospel of Thomas? Its entire message is one of finding the Kingdom of Heaven/God from within; something that Catholicism rejects. Any system of organized religion that requires the existence of a priest who intermediates between man and God will be against any alternative belief-system of individual salvation.

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Deviate
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Quote:
all this beauty said:
Quote:
Deviate said: I think legalization of LSD would benefit all those who make their living through the spiritual business.
Look at what happened in the 1960s, with the widespread use of psychedelics all of a sudden you have great public interest emerging in spirituality. What do all these confused people who saw God on their trip do? They rush off to find a guru, priest or teacher, someone who can tell them how to maintain the experience.
I was someone who wouldn't give an ear to priests prior to drug experimentation, next thing I know I am going to prayer meetings.
I respect your experience, but my experience was somewhat different.
When I had my first lollapalooza mystical extravaganza on LSD, the first thing I did was empty the bookstores of all their stuff on the subject. This was the late-60s / early-70s, so my timing was exquisite. Leary and Alpert and Watts were at their creative heights. Their writings echoed and confirmed my experience.
I generally avoid "places of worship" now -- keen to the hoaxes so frequently perpetrated in them.
"Prayer groups" can be useful -- but only, I think, for the very spiritually adept.
Well everyone's experience is going to be different but I was speaking specifically to what you said about LSD being bad for religious authorities.
Would there be people who would take LSD and realize they didn't need religion anymore? Of course. But any mass scale use of LSD is also going to create mass amounts of new spiritual seekers who are going to go running to the religious authorities to tell them how they can maintain their connection to the divine. Its interesting you mentioned Alpert for example, because that's exactly what he did. He went all the way to India, to find someone who could tell him what LSD was.
Basically I was challenging your assertion that LSD leads to spiritual independence. It can but much more common is someone takes LSD and feels more confused than they were before (not necessarily in a bad way) and then searches for a guru, or authority figure to help them.
This is the best thing for anyone who makes their living in the religion/spirituality business. Who cares if they lose a few people? They will gain many more.
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Deviate
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19308112 - 12/21/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The biggest threat religious authorities face is lack of interest. People are beginning to look at religion as old fashioned, something their grandparents did but something which is out of touch with modern science and modern trends.
They look at religion as something which infringes on their freedom because it tells them they must go to church, they shouldn't have promiscuous sex, co-habitate or seek revenge on someone who offended them.
So people leave the churches and live materialistic lives because that seems to be what benefits them most. Now if these people began using LSD of course some of them with begin to look at things differently. Of course there is the liberating aspect, the realization that its not really necessary to follow all these different religious rules. But with that realization, also comes the realization that true happiness doesn't lie in doing what the ego wants. So with that understanding, religious rules cease to feel so burdensome. You realize that there is nothing wrong with living a quiet obedient life and if you cant be happy doing that, the problem is your own lack of wholeness and not the fact that you dont have unlimited sexual partners.
Of course armed with the knowledge that you dont need to follow a bunch of religious to get to heaven, some people would choose not to ever return to the churches, but other people, on realizing the real meaning of Jesus's message, would want to return to the churches.
So my point is that anything that stirs up genuine interest in religion and spirituality on a mass scale is going to be good for people who make their living off religion and spirituality. You cannot pretend that someone who trips on LSD a few times knows more than someone who has spent their whole life exploring meditation or prayer. So rather than lose their usefulness, religious authorities actually will gain more respect as the world becomes more spiritual, the legit ones anyway.
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all this beauty
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate] 1
#19308207 - 12/21/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: You cannot pretend that someone who trips on LSD a few times knows more than someone who has spent their whole life exploring meditation or prayer.
Lol. Well... yes, actually.
I do pretend / am pretending that very thing, as a matter of fact. 
As I think we agree, everyone's magical mystery tour on LSD differs. Some folks, I'm sure, wake up the next morning with the burning desire to go to confession at their local Catholic Church and confess all their sins. Some folks probably seek out gurus to explain it all to them. The permutations are infinite.
Very much depends on what you see, when your doors of perception are blown wide open.
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Deviate
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yes they are but in my experience few if any people become totally liberated from an LSD trip. the more of liberation you glimpse, the more of a seeker it has the potential to turn you into. The seeking can take an infinity amount of different forms but LSD leads to the creation of spiritual seekers more than to the creation of enlightened beings, which is very good for those who are in the position to profit from spiritual seekers. It doesnt sound like you are disagreeing with me about that though.
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Middleman

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The Apocalypse of James
You've probably never heard of it.

Isn't he a gif somewhere?
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all this beauty
Stranger
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19308344 - 12/21/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: The seeking can take an infinity amount of different forms but LSD leads to the creation of spiritual seekers more than to the creation of enlightened beings, which is very good for those who are in the position to profit from spiritual seekers. It doesnt sound like you are disagreeing with me about that though.
Well, perhaps this brings us full-circle back to what we mean when we say "enlightened beings."
I think I get what U.G. Krishnamurti and others of his persuasion mean / meant when they say there is no enlightenment.
"Enlightenment" assumes that you are here and that "that" is there. That you must travel from Point A to Point B to attain "that."
In fact (I believe), there is no "here" vs. "there." The perception of there being a "here" and a "there" is a perceptual brain fart. A function of linear brain thinking, of which we are all captive.
Thanks for engaging me in this discussion, Deviate. I've always maintained that you're a good sport when it comes to this stuff.
Not afraid to engage... and in my book that counts for a lot.
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Confucian
...


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I love 1 Chronicles chapters 1 through 8. So intense to read. For your enjoyment here are the first 3 chapters. THE LORD'S WORD IS SO AMAZING.
1 Chronicles 1 New Living Translation (NLT) From Adam to Noah’s Sons
1 The descendants of Adam were Seth, Enosh, 2 Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, 3 Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, 4 and Noah.
The sons of Noah were[a] Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Descendants of Japheth
5 The descendants of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.
6 The descendants of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.
7 The descendants of Javan were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Rodanim.
Descendants of Ham
8 The descendants of Ham were Cush, Mizraim,[c] Put, and Canaan.
9 The descendants of Cush were Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabteca. The descendants of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan. 10 Cush was also the ancestor of Nimrod, who was the first heroic warrior on earth.
11 Mizraim was the ancestor of the Ludites, Anamites, Lehabites, Naphtuhites, 12 Pathrusites, Casluhites, and the Caphtorites, from whom the Philistines came.[d]
13 Canaan’s oldest son was Sidon, the ancestor of the Sidonians. Canaan was also the ancestor of the Hittites,[e] 14 Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, 15 Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, 16 Arvadites, Zemarites, and Hamathites.
Descendants of Shem
17 The descendants of Shem were Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram.
The descendants of Aram were[f] Uz, Hul, Gether, and Mash.[g]
18 Arphaxad was the father of Shelah.
Shelah was the father of Eber.
19 Eber had two sons. The first was named Peleg (which means “division”), for during his lifetime the people of the world were divided into different language groups. His brother’s name was Joktan.
20 Joktan was the ancestor of Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, 21 Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, 22 Obal,[h] Abimael, Sheba, 23 Ophir, Havilah, and Jobab. All these were descendants of Joktan.
24 So this is the family line descended from Shem: Arphaxad, Shelah, 25 Eber, Peleg, Reu, 26 Serug, Nahor, Terah, 27 and Abram, later known as Abraham.
Descendants of Abraham
28 The sons of Abraham were Isaac and Ishmael. 29 These are their genealogical records:
The sons of Ishmael were Nebaioth (the oldest), Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, 30 Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, 31 Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah. These were the sons of Ishmael.
32 The sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine, were Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah.
The sons of Jokshan were Sheba and Dedan.
33 The sons of Midian were Ephah, Epher, Hanoch, Abida, and Eldaah.
All these were descendants of Abraham through his concubine Keturah.
Descendants of Isaac
34 Abraham was the father of Isaac. The sons of Isaac were Esau and Israel.[j]
Descendants of Esau
35 The sons of Esau were Eliphaz, Reuel, Jeush, Jalam, and Korah.
36 The descendants of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho,[k] Gatam, Kenaz, and Amalek, who was born to Timna.[l]
37 The descendants of Reuel were Nahath, Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah.
Original Peoples of Edom
38 The descendants of Seir were Lotan, Shobal, Zibeon, Anah, Dishon, Ezer, and Dishan.
39 The descendants of Lotan were Hori and Hemam.[m] Lotan’s sister was named Timna.
40 The descendants of Shobal were Alvan,[n] Manahath, Ebal, Shepho,[o] and Onam.
The descendants of Zibeon were Aiah and Anah.
41 The son of Anah was Dishon.
The descendants of Dishon were Hemdan,[p] Eshban, Ithran, and Keran.
42 The descendants of Ezer were Bilhan, Zaavan, and Akan.[q]
The descendants of Dishan[r] were Uz and Aran.
Rulers of Edom
43 These are the kings who ruled in the land of Edom before any king ruled over the Israelites[s]:
Bela son of Beor, who ruled from his city of Dinhabah.
44 When Bela died, Jobab son of Zerah from Bozrah became king in his place.
45 When Jobab died, Husham from the land of the Temanites became king in his place.
46 When Husham died, Hadad son of Bedad became king in his place and ruled from the city of Avith. He was the one who destroyed the Midianite army in the land of Moab.
47 When Hadad died, Samlah from the city of Masrekah became king in his place.
48 When Samlah died, Shaul from the city of Rehoboth-on-the-River became king in his place.
49 When Shaul died, Baal-hanan son of Acbor became king in his place.
50 When Baal-hanan died, Hadad became king in his place and ruled from the city of Pau.[t] His wife was Mehetabel, the daughter of Matred and granddaughter of Me-zahab. 51 Then Hadad died.
The clan leaders of Edom were Timna, Alvah, Jetheth, 52 Oholibamah, Elah, Pinon, 53 Kenaz, Teman, Mibzar, 54 Magdiel, and Iram. These are the clan leaders of Edom.
Descendants of Israel
2 The sons of Israel[a] were Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, 2 Dan, Joseph, Benjamin, Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.
Descendants of Judah
3 Judah had three sons from Bathshua, a Canaanite woman. Their names were Er, Onan, and Shelah. But the Lord saw that the oldest son, Er, was a wicked man, so he killed him. 4 Later Judah had twin sons from Tamar, his widowed daughter-in-law. Their names were Perez and Zerah. So Judah had five sons in all.
5 The sons of Perez were Hezron and Hamul.
6 The sons of Zerah were Zimri, Ethan, Heman, Calcol, and Darda—five in all.
7 The son of Carmi (a descendant of Zimri) was Achan,[c] who brought disaster on Israel by taking plunder that had been set apart for the Lord.[d]
8 The son of Ethan was Azariah.
From Judah’s Grandson Hezron to David
9 The sons of Hezron were Jerahmeel, Ram, and Caleb.[e]
10 Ram was the father of Amminadab. Amminadab was the father of Nahshon, a leader of Judah. 11 Nahshon was the father of Salmon.[f] Salmon was the father of Boaz. 12 Boaz was the father of Obed. Obed was the father of Jesse. 13 Jesse’s first son was Eliab, his second was Abinadab, his third was Shimea, 14 his fourth was Nethanel, his fifth was Raddai, 15 his sixth was Ozem, and his seventh was David.
16 Their sisters were named Zeruiah and Abigail. Zeruiah had three sons named Abishai, Joab, and Asahel. 17 Abigail married a man named Jether, an Ishmaelite, and they had a son named Amasa.
Other Descendants of Hezron
18 Hezron’s son Caleb had sons from his wife Azubah and from Jerioth.[g] Her sons were named Jesher, Shobab, and Ardon. 19 After Azubah died, Caleb married Ephrathah,[h] and they had a son named Hur. 20 Hur was the father of Uri. Uri was the father of Bezalel.
21 When Hezron was sixty years old, he married Gilead’s sister, the daughter of Makir. They had a son named Segub. 22 Segub was the father of Jair, who ruled twenty-three towns in the land of Gilead. 23 (But Geshur and Aram captured the Towns of Jair and also took Kenath and its sixty surrounding villages.) All these were descendants of Makir, the father of Gilead.
24 Soon after Hezron died in the town of Caleb-ephrathah, his wife Abijah gave birth to a son named Ashhur (the father of[j] Tekoa).
Descendants of Hezron’s Son Jerahmeel
25 The sons of Jerahmeel, the oldest son of Hezron, were Ram (the firstborn), Bunah, Oren, Ozem, and Ahijah. 26 Jerahmeel had a second wife named Atarah. She was the mother of Onam.
27 The sons of Ram, the oldest son of Jerahmeel, were Maaz, Jamin, and Eker.
28 The sons of Onam were Shammai and Jada.
The sons of Shammai were Nadab and Abishur.
29 The sons of Abishur and his wife Abihail were Ahban and Molid.
30 The sons of Nadab were Seled and Appaim. Seled died without children, 31 but Appaim had a son named Ishi. The son of Ishi was Sheshan. Sheshan had a descendant named Ahlai.
32 The sons of Jada, Shammai’s brother, were Jether and Jonathan. Jether died without children, 33 but Jonathan had two sons named Peleth and Zaza.
These were all descendants of Jerahmeel.
34 Sheshan had no sons, though he did have daughters. He also had an Egyptian servant named Jarha. 35 Sheshan gave one of his daughters to be the wife of Jarha, and they had a son named Attai.
36 Attai was the father of Nathan. Nathan was the father of Zabad. 37 Zabad was the father of Ephlal. Ephlal was the father of Obed. 38 Obed was the father of Jehu. Jehu was the father of Azariah. 39 Azariah was the father of Helez. Helez was the father of Eleasah. 40 Eleasah was the father of Sismai. Sismai was the father of Shallum. 41 Shallum was the father of Jekamiah. Jekamiah was the father of Elishama. Descendants of Hezron’s Son Caleb
42 The descendants of Caleb, the brother of Jerahmeel, included Mesha (the firstborn), who became the father of Ziph. Caleb’s descendants also included the sons of Mareshah, the father of Hebron.[k]
43 The sons of Hebron were Korah, Tappuah, Rekem, and Shema. 44 Shema was the father of Raham. Raham was the father of Jorkeam. Rekem was the father of Shammai. 45 The son of Shammai was Maon. Maon was the father of Beth-zur.
46 Caleb’s concubine Ephah gave birth to Haran, Moza, and Gazez. Haran was the father of Gazez.
47 The sons of Jahdai were Regem, Jotham, Geshan, Pelet, Ephah, and Shaaph.
48 Another of Caleb’s concubines, Maacah, gave birth to Sheber and Tirhanah. 49 She also gave birth to Shaaph (the father of Madmannah) and Sheva (the father of Macbenah and Gibea). Caleb also had a daughter named Acsah.
50 These were all descendants of Caleb.
Descendants of Caleb’s Son Hur
The sons of Hur, the oldest son of Caleb’s wife Ephrathah, were Shobal (the founder of Kiriath-jearim), 51 Salma (the founder of Bethlehem), and Hareph (the founder of Beth-gader).
52 The descendants of Shobal (the founder of Kiriath-jearim) were Haroeh, half the Manahathites, 53 and the families of Kiriath-jearim—the Ithrites, Puthites, Shumathites, and Mishraites, from whom came the people of Zorah and Eshtaol.
54 The descendants of Salma were the people of Bethlehem, the Netophathites, Atroth-beth-joab, the other half of the Manahathites, the Zorites, 55 and the families of scribes living at Jabez—the Tirathites, Shimeathites, and Sucathites. All these were Kenites who descended from Hammath, the father of the family of Recab.[l]
Descendants of David
3 These are the sons of David who were born in Hebron:
The oldest was Amnon, whose mother was Ahinoam from Jezreel. The second was Daniel, whose mother was Abigail from Carmel. 2 The third was Absalom, whose mother was Maacah, the daughter of Talmai, king of Geshur. The fourth was Adonijah, whose mother was Haggith. 3 The fifth was Shephatiah, whose mother was Abital. The sixth was Ithream, whose mother was Eglah, David’s wife. 4 These six sons were born to David in Hebron, where he reigned seven and a half years.
Then David reigned another thirty-three years in Jerusalem. 5 The sons born to David in Jerusalem included Shammua,[a] Shobab, Nathan, and Solomon. Their mother was Bathsheba, the daughter of Ammiel. 6 David also had nine other sons: Ibhar, Elishua,[c] Elpelet,[d] 7 Nogah, Nepheg, Japhia, 8 Elishama, Eliada, and Eliphelet.
9 These were the sons of David, not including his sons born to his concubines. Their sister was named Tamar.
Descendants of Solomon
10 The descendants of Solomon were Rehoboam, Abijah, Asa, Jehoshaphat, 11 Jehoram,[e] Ahaziah, Joash, 12 Amaziah, Uzziah,[f] Jotham, 13 Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, 14 Amon, and Josiah.
15 The sons of Josiah were Johanan (the oldest), Jehoiakim (the second), Zedekiah (the third), and Jehoahaz[g] (the fourth).
16 The successors of Jehoiakim were his son Jehoiachin and his brother Zedekiah.[h]
Descendants of Jehoiachin
17 The sons of Jehoiachin, who was taken prisoner by the Babylonians, were Shealtiel, 18 Malkiram, Pedaiah, Shenazzar, Jekamiah, Hoshama, and Nedabiah.
19 The sons of Pedaiah were Zerubbabel and Shimei.
The sons of Zerubbabel were Meshullam and Hananiah. (Their sister was Shelomith.) 20 His five other sons were Hashubah, Ohel, Berekiah, Hasadiah, and Jushab-hesed.
21 The sons of Hananiah were Pelatiah and Jeshaiah. Jeshaiah’s son was Rephaiah. Rephaiah’s son was Arnan. Arnan’s son was Obadiah. Obadiah’s son was Shecaniah.
22 The descendants of Shecaniah were Shemaiah and his sons, Hattush, Igal, Bariah, Neariah, and Shaphat—six in all.
23 The sons of Neariah were Elioenai, Hizkiah, and Azrikam—three in all.
24 The sons of Elioenai were Hodaviah, Eliashib, Pelaiah, Akkub, Johanan, Delaiah, and Anani—seven in all.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Confucian]
#19308613 - 12/21/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Great new years resolutions. I plan on adding many of those to my list.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Quote:
all this beauty said:
Quote:
Deviate said: The seeking can take an infinity amount of different forms but LSD leads to the creation of spiritual seekers more than to the creation of enlightened beings, which is very good for those who are in the position to profit from spiritual seekers. It doesnt sound like you are disagreeing with me about that though.
Well, perhaps this brings us full-circle back to what we mean when we say "enlightened beings."
I think I get what U.G. Krishnamurti and others of his persuasion mean / meant when they say there is no enlightenment.
"Enlightenment" assumes that you are here and that "that" is there. That you must travel from Point A to Point B to attain "that."
In fact (I believe), there is no "here" vs. "there." The perception of there being a "here" and a "there" is a perceptual brain fart. A function of linear brain thinking, of which we are all captive.
Thanks for engaging me in this discussion, Deviate. I've always maintained that you're a good sport when it comes to this stuff.
Not afraid to engage... and in my book that counts for a lot. 
I agree but understanding that intellectually does not put an end to seeking. There are people who spend hours studying the teachings of people like UG Kristmurti which makes little sense logically.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Confucian]
#19308640 - 12/21/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The book of Icelander is my favorite by far followed by the book of Chaos and then the book of Sillystuff.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad


Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19308665 - 12/21/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Getting caught up in the euphoria only leads to let down and disappointment when it inevitably dissipates. A quiet of life of obedience is actually a better a much better approach then getting caught up in anything euphoric or wonderful in my experience. Not to say that there is anything wrong with that, its perfectly ok, but a life of quiet obedience is perfectly ok also.
I think this is probably the difference between a "seeker" and a "layman." Not that there is anything wrong with either state. Christianity (originally) was something of a mystery religion and the mysteries were meant to be explored, shared with those who were also initiated, and lived in; but it seems much of that was lost following the Protestant Reformation. Now, for many Christians, the thought of actually having to do "work" comes across as an anethema to their faith, despite prayer, meditation, ritual, and mythology being intrinsically linked.
For example, as one who is drawn to the mysteries, studies them, and attempts to live in them the euphoria never fades because there is ALWAYS something, even after the laundry. Whether I find it in contemplation, cleaning my altars, setting our offerings/libations, performing ritual, discussing theology or the occult with friends, or just walking about in nature there is no "come down."
So you response makes me wonder if the necessity of priests in Christianity is no different than the priestesses of Eleusis or the Vestals; not everyone is meant for a life steeped in religion, let alone the mysteries.
-------------------- He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.
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dionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad


Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19308674 - 12/21/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
I agree but understanding that intellectually does not put an end to seeking. There are people who spend hours studying the teachings of people like UG Kristmurti which makes little sense logically.
This reminds me of the famous "armchair magician" debate in some parts of the occult community. They've read tons of texts on evocation and invocation, can cite chapter and verse of The Goetia, but the moment you ask them to actually perform a ritual or offer practical advice they have none because they live in a world of -doxy instead of -praxy.
-------------------- He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Quote:
dionysiandame said:
Quote:
Deviate said:
Getting caught up in the euphoria only leads to let down and disappointment when it inevitably dissipates. A quiet of life of obedience is actually a better a much better approach then getting caught up in anything euphoric or wonderful in my experience. Not to say that there is anything wrong with that, its perfectly ok, but a life of quiet obedience is perfectly ok also.
I think this is probably the difference between a "seeker" and a "layman." Not that there is anything wrong with either state. Christianity (originally) was something of a mystery religion and the mysteries were meant to be explored, shared with those who were also initiated, and lived in; but it seems much of that was lost following the Protestant Reformation. Now, for many Christians, the thought of actually having to do "work" comes across as an anethema to their faith, despite prayer, meditation, ritual, and mythology being intrinsically linked.
I agree that a lot was lost in the reformation, although there are some good protestant groups but a lot of it seems to be Christianity light to me. I read an article which talked about the protestants seemed focus on the least someone could do religious wise and still be saved. The main problem I see with protestantism is the belief (whether churchs actually teach this or not) that all one needs to do is believe in that religion and they will be saved.
Quote:
For example, as one who is drawn to the mysteries, studies them, and attempts to live in them the euphoria never fades because there is ALWAYS something, even after the laundry. Whether I find it in contemplation, cleaning my altars, setting our offerings/libations, performing ritual, discussing theology or the occult with friends, or just walking about in nature there is no "come down."
So you response makes me wonder if the necessity of priests in Christianity is no different than the priestesses of Eleusis or the Vestals; not everyone is meant for a life steeped in religion, let alone the mysteries.
Well I am very glad if you feel the euphoria never fades but I am not sure we are exactly on the same page here. I don't mean that the euphoria completely goes out of religious practices, I just mean that one does not walk around high 24/7. On the contrary, the Bible says we must endure many hardships to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. There is joy but also much sorrow and many trials we must face. If you havent experienced that, you are very lucky. Truly if one looks at the state of ones soul, there is much to be depressed about. The orthodox church teaches that Orthodox Christians should live in mourning if they are capable of it, mourning for their lost grace. Life in the world is misery in my experience. I aim to find the Kingdom of God through contempt for the world, as the Imitation of Christ suggests. I hate the world and I hate life in the fallen state.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Confucian]
#19309637 - 12/21/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Confucian said: I love 1 Chronicles chapters 1 through 8. So intense to read. For your enjoyment here are the first 3 chapters. THE LORD'S WORD IS SO AMAZING.
...

That was great.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19309677 - 12/21/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: Life in the world is misery in my experience. I aim to find the Kingdom of God through contempt for the world, as the Imitation of Christ suggests. I hate the world and I hate life in the fallen state.
I'm so sorry, man! I'm being completely honest; I really feel for people like you who are discontent in the world around them. Out of curiosity, have you ever tried natural remedies for depression? Assuming you're eating right, maintaining healthy exercise routines and regular sleep patterns of course.
I've been through a hell of a lot of suffering in my life. Intense depression in my college years, severe social anxiety, heavy opiate addiction, etcetera etc. There have been times when I've felt nothing more than that life is true suffering. But eventually, somehow, a ray of sunlight cracks through the gray clouds and the depression lifts. Nothing lasts forever in this life, and so too this shall pass. It can become remarkably easy to find belief systems like life-hating Christianity or perverted forms of Buddhism to justify the feelings of miserable suffering, anxiety and depression that one is undergoing, but in the end it can become hard to reconcile these beliefs with feelings of joy, acceptance, and true satisfaction that are also part and parcel of worldly life on this little blue planet.
Here's to hoping someday you'll be able to recognize some of the positives in this beautiful, sad life we live.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: deCypher]
#19309984 - 12/21/13 11:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have tried eating right but my problems run way too deep for anything like that to help. I have been miserable for so many years that I discovered through introspection that I have wired my thoughts patterns toward negativity. There is an unconscious negative response in me to most life situations. I have been trying to fix these things and Christianity has been a great help but its also shown me how truly sick on such deep levels of my being I am. The only thing I really want is liberation. I could spend the entire rest of my life focusing on nothing but personal healing and I probably still would never get to the point where I was anywhere near satisfied with myself.
I have experienced joy and I know how awe inspiring and beautiful life can be. But the reason I think that life is so awful is because when you are not feeling that way there is nothing you can do about it. That really sucks. It really sucks that there is no way to escape horrible suffering.
Edited by Deviate (12/21/13 11:38 PM)
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dionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad


Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
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Re: Favorite Biblical Book (s)? [Re: Deviate]
#19310552 - 12/22/13 04:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: If you havent experienced that, you are very lucky. Truly if one looks at the state of ones soul, there is much to be depressed about. The orthodox church teaches that Orthodox Christians should live in mourning if they are capable of it, mourning for their lost grace. Life in the world is misery in my experience. I aim to find the Kingdom of God through contempt for the world, as the Imitation of Christ suggests. I hate the world and I hate life in the fallen state.
Oh no love! I have had my fair share of tribulations. Fuck, I didn't really get my life on a good track until I was about 25 or so and that was after years of dealing with a narcissistic mother, verbal/emotional/mental/physical abuse from her husband, terrible relationship and life choices, and a well of depression that was so deep at times I thought death would be my only way out. I really believed I was just waiting to die so all of it could be over and I could have some peace.
I don't know what changed. Maybe it was me coming to believe I was going through an initiation process and once I came to this understanding it was like some kind of switch went off and I began to try to handle things differently. People who "have it rough" aren't unlucky, they're Odysseus, Heracles, Job, and Aeneas. Myths and parables are written about those who, through great trials, come out on the other side not always for the better but different and able to contemplate lessons others cannot. They become heroes in their families and communities. They're able to stand for something because they've already been tempered by flame, blood, or despair.
That means something to me. It means I can offer compassion when I see someone who's down on their luck because I've been there. I can understand hunger and loneliness and, though I often fail, I can try to help someone else indure their own initiation and welcome them once they come to the next steps their gods/spirit/universe/HGA/self has laid out for them.
Life can be beautiful even when we have to question if it's art.
-------------------- He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.
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