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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
    #19278568 - 12/15/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's not mental illness, that's serious mental illness (whatever that means.)  I don't buy it either way, too many untreated people.


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Invisibleunam sanctum
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278571 - 12/15/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
"Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.



That and the fact that we have a culture wherein people can hire therapists to coddle them through life and have insurance pick up part of the tab.




No. Most insurance plans only cover between 6-12 sessions of therapy.




your reading comprehension is abysmal


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Konichiwaffle]
    #19278580 - 12/15/13 10:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Konichiwaffle said:
Not exactly what I mean.

It's an unhealthy method because it only begets more violence.  The video will do a better job explaining what I'm trying to get at.



The real question is whether we should be teaching kids how the world works or how we wish it worked.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
    #19278592 - 12/15/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Asians have the highest rate of mental illness



Do you have a source to back up this claim?

In the U.S., it appears to be false:






You are counting pure numbers, and Asians are the lowest population within that chart in the USA. Asians are less than 10% of the population, so based on those numbers alone it actually looks pretty high. If you count by percentage numbers, Asians are the highest. I remember reading on the UCSB Asian American studies department that Asians have the highest ratio of mental illness.


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OfflineKonichiwaffle
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Uzziel] * 1
    #19278594 - 12/15/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's a well known fact that victims of child abuse are more likely to exhibit violent behavior.

It makes sense too.  At that age you soak up everything like a sponge.  I do not really see how you can argue that hitting your children is ultimately positive.  It's more of a last resort kind of method, wouldn't you agree? 

There was one study tat indicated 80% of young adults who suffered from abuse fit the criteria of at least one psychiatric disorder.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/statistics/can.cfm
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/long_term_consequences.cfm


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: unam sanctum]
    #19278596 - 12/15/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

unam sanctum said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
"Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.



That and the fact that we have a culture wherein people can hire therapists to coddle them through life and have insurance pick up part of the tab.




No. Most insurance plans only cover between 6-12 sessions of therapy.




your reading comprehension is abysmal




Quote:

That and the fact that we have a culture wherein people can hire therapists to coddle them through life and have insurance pick up part of the tab




What part of THROUGH LIFE do you not understand? Clearly 8 sessions is barely a dent in your life.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278600 - 12/15/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The chart shows percentages, dude...not total numbers.

Do you have a source that supports your claim that Asians have the highest rate or not?


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19278609 - 12/15/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
again, that couldnt have a thing to do with the overall upbringing, it was
all about that book and how many parents took it to heart and disciplined
their kids




Noooo Tiger Mom was written back in like 2003 or 2005, real-life "tiger moms" have been in existence LONG before that book came out. That book was simply exemplary and gave the inside scoop to non-Asian people what "tiger moms" are really like. Actually, when that book came out there was a whole lot of controversy and backlash, particularly from Asian people.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Konichiwaffle]
    #19278610 - 12/15/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Konichiwaffle said:
It's a well known fact that victims of child abuse are more likely to exhibit violent behavior.





Hitting your child doesn't mean you are abusing them though, so what are you going on about?


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
    #19278621 - 12/15/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The chart shows percentages, dude...not total numbers.

Do you have a source that supports your claim that Asians have the highest rate or not?




Is that percentage of all adults in the nation though, or percentage of each individual race?

No, I don't have a source anymore. This was about the closest I could find:

Quote:

A study has not yet been conducted to determine the rate of mental disorders among Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. However, researchers have examined mental health problems by measuring the prevalence of symptoms. In these studies, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders appear to have an increased risk of depression with Chinese Americans reporting the highest lifetime prevalence rate of depression.
Symptoms of social anxiety, social phobias, and trauma- related disorders also occur at high rates among Asian Americans, especially among second-generation Asian Americans.This may be attributed to conflict caused by their strong identification with mainstream culture.
Some studies have indicated that Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders who use mental-health services are more severely ill than other groups. Evidence suggests this is because many Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders delay seeking treatment because of the stigma associated with using mental health services and cultural and linguistic barriers to access.




http://cim.ucdavis.edu/clinics/Bayanihan//bayanihan%20health%20education/MentalhealthinAAPI.pdf


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278625 - 12/15/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
how will you claim that spanking leads to rebellion and drug abuse when
we've just had a high profile case of a kid that wasnt spanked that killed
4 people and his defense was 'didnt know right from wrong', wouldnt a 19yo
taking the car for a spin while drunk be a sign of rebellion, wouldnt it
indicate the use of drugs... and yet he wasnt spanked and his certainly
isnt the only case of the undisciplined child growing up to be a 'monster'
nor would it be the first case of a child that's never been spanked turning
to drugs or rebelling against their parents


you're drawing conclusions from too little evidence




We don't know whether he was spanked or not. Maybe he was.

The thing about overly affluent people, is that a lot of them end up severely fucked up too. Mostly because of lack of parenting, their parents are too busy working 80 hours a week to bother paying attention to their kids. So instead they shower their kids with toys and material things, and the kids end up growing fucked up because of it.





we keep coming back to that 'lack of parenting'


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #19278627 - 12/15/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I was abused, physically beaten with what ever object was handy, I was
'emotionally' abused because my step father couldnt resist saying I was
stupid, it that I had no sense or what ever else came to mind




I was abused quite badly too and the more kids we can prevent turning into hardasses like you or social neurotics like me, the better off the world is. The good thing about you and me is what we were and are, not what was done to us.


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OfflineKonichiwaffle
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
    #19278628 - 12/15/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's exactly why I like Molyneux's thoughts.

One of my favorite quotes is "the world is a kuboki pantomime of early childhood".

What if instead of force, we teach our children strong negotiation skills?  I would say the world works more in that direction.  This is where I have to stop talking, Enlil.  Molyneux serves this argument more justice, and I highly recommend watching some of his videos to touch upon where you are getting at about the real world.  I think his points are excellent.

Sorry for long video, there are shorter ones on youtube that sum it up more.  I just thought this one was the best:



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OfflineKonichiwaffle
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Uzziel]
    #19278636 - 12/15/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hitting your child doesn't mean you are abusing them though




lol wut?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278639 - 12/15/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That is percentage of each race with "serious mental illness" whatever that means. 

That quote seems to focus solely on Asians in America.  As you know, only a small percentage of Asians are in America.

So, I'll assume that you pulled the fact out of your ass unless/until I see a source.  Thanks for clarifying that.


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19278645 - 12/15/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)



Do you think this kid needs a spanking (and more) or do you think simple rewarding good behavior would correct this child attitude?  Sure this is an example of gross neglect, and the parents shouldn't even have custody of this boy.

Beating a child isn't right, but spanking a child on the bottom for certain behaviors is acceptable.  Setting boundaries, sticking to consequences, and rewarding good behavior are obviously the best methods.  But sometimes these are ineffective (Children with ODD.  What do you do?).


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #19278653 - 12/15/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
again, that couldnt have a thing to do with the overall upbringing, it was
all about that book and how many parents took it to heart and disciplined
their kids




Noooo Tiger Mom was written back in like 2003 or 2005, real-life "tiger moms" have been in existence LONG before that book came out. That book was simply exemplary and gave the inside scoop to non-Asian people what "tiger moms" are really like. Actually, when that book came out there was a whole lot of controversy and backlash, particularly from Asian people.





so we can conclude that asians are naturally bad parents


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OfflineUzziel
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Registered: 12/30/10
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Konichiwaffle]
    #19278657 - 12/15/13 10:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Konichiwaffle said:
Quote:

Hitting your child doesn't mean you are abusing them though




lol wut?




Discipline =/= Abuse


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #19278662 - 12/15/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MrBlueYoMind said:
Do you think this kid needs a spanking (and more) or do you think simple rewarding good behavior would correct this child attitude?  Sure this is an example of gross neglect, and the parents shouldn't even have custody of this boy.

Beating a child isn't right, but spanking a child on the bottom for certain behaviors is acceptable.  Setting boundaries, sticking to consequences, and rewarding good behavior are obviously the best methods.  But sometimes these are ineffective (Children with ODD.  What do you do?).




That is TV, I really honestly have a hard time believing that is real. But if it is real, it most likely spawned from the child witnessing abuse towards his mother (likely from his father) at a young age. It is probably also from growing up in poor socioeconomic neighborhoods where he gained access to drugs at such a young age. I mean these girls want to be strippers because they think "it makes a lot of money." That alone tells me that people who come on Maury are dirt poor.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278668 - 12/15/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)



USA is in the lead in parents beating their kids to death. Research has shown this is solely the kids fault.


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