|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19278439 - 12/15/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Like I said in my original post, I have no problems with hitting TEENAGERS. (So much for your "affluenza" claim, maybe you should re-read my post.)
so teaching a child right from wrong should wait until they're in their teens, a point in which it could be too late, remember, "old dog, new tricks"
why is hitting a teen more acceptable?
As I already said earlier, hitting teenagers does not traumatize or scar or hurt them deeply in the way that it affects children when you hit them.
The problem is, hitting a child might not end up with the results that you would like. If you end up traumatizing the child, the child could inadvertently end up becoming the teenage monster that you always wanted to prevent.
much like the kids that receive no discipline
imagine that, people want to blame spankings as opposed to the entire upbringing, why yes, the nurturing of a child is important in not raising a 'monster' but it means didly squat apparently if someone spanks their kid
Quote:
Remember the lady who wrote "Tiger Mom?" Well 2 years after she wrote the book she recanted her beliefs, because once her daughter turned 13 she started rebelling against her strict mom.
nope. dont remember her but once again, it's an appeal to authority, it would be like me citing Benjamin Spock as an advocate against spanking, citing the recantation as proof that he was 'wrong' when in reality, Dr. Spock didnt say that corporal punishment was off the table, he felt it was in fact appropriate in some instances but there is in fact a line that shouldnt be approached and that's where the abuse begins
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,002
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Mescalean]
#19278441 - 12/15/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mescalean said:
HITTING KIDS WORKS.
It generally turns the kids of cunts into little cunts, if you mean that then yes, it works great.
I believe in the parental emergency swat, because sometimes its really vital to get split second compliance but I'm against beating of children as a haphazard or ritualized form of punishment.
A parental emergency swat should be followed up on as soon as expedient with thge parent explaining their behavior and the urgency of it and include an apology for the swat.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 11 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: much like the kids that receive no discipline
imagine that, people want to blame spankings as opposed to the entire upbringing, why yes, the nurturing of a child is important in not raising a 'monster' but it means didly squat apparently if someone spanks their kid
No discipline is just as bad as extreme discipline. People want to blame spankings because it is indicative of an adult with low patience levels, somebody who wants to put a quick stop to their child's behaviors at the expense of the future wellbeing of the child.
Again, IDK how hard you're hitting these kids. Maybe it's not very hard. Maybe they don't even cry when they're getting hit. I don't really know.
Quote:
nope. dont remember her but once again, it's an appeal to authority, it would be like me citing Benjamin Spock as an advocate against spanking, citing the recantation as proof that he was 'wrong' when in reality, Dr. Spock didnt say that corporal punishment was off the table, he felt it was in fact appropriate in some instances but there is in fact a line that shouldnt be approached and that's where the abuse begins
It's not an appeal to authority. Tiger Mom was representative of the entire culture behind Asian parenting. "Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.
|
idiotek


Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 40,728
|
|
Just another form of discipline. Like anything else, people can apply it incorrectly or go overboard. The point is not to inflict severe physical pain, but rather set limits and consequences. Make kids think about what they do before they give in to impulse. Conditioning.
|
Big_Dave


Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 393
Loc: DC burbs
Last seen: 6 months, 8 days
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19278475 - 12/15/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I don't know, While I have a pretty good relationship with my parents,they never really hit me and I still ended up rebellious and involved with drugs. And I also think some of you are mixing punishment and abuse. The fact that it has negative long term effects kinda makes it abuse by definition. Proper physical punishment would have no negative long term consequences. The most responsible people I know have great relationships with their parents even though their parents had to lay it down sometimes.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,968
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19278484 - 12/15/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crystal G said: "Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.
That and the fact that we have a culture wherein people can hire therapists to coddle them through life and have insurance pick up part of the tab.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19278489 - 12/15/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Mescalean said: Ill throw this in. All the boys in my family are little shits. I was, my dad was, my cousins, every one of us.
We were all punished physically. Usually after the first belt/woodenspoon/soap (liquid) we usually didn't hit or say that word after that.
HITTING KIDS WORKS.
And how did you end up growing up as a teenager? Did you become rebellious and start taking drugs?
I was abused, physically beaten with what ever object was handy, I was 'emotionally' abused because my step father couldnt resist saying I was stupid, it that I had no sense or what ever else came to mind
do I use drugs? rarely as it has been throughout my adolescence and adult life was I rebellious? no, I had a great deal of respect and love for my mother and still see my step father as someone I learned a great deal from, one of the things I learned from him was respect
how will you claim that spanking leads to rebellion and drug abuse when we've just had a high profile case of a kid that wasnt spanked that killed 4 people and his defense was 'didnt know right from wrong', wouldnt a 19yo taking the car for a spin while drunk be a sign of rebellion, wouldnt it indicate the use of drugs... and yet he wasnt spanked and his certainly isnt the only case of the undisciplined child growing up to be a 'monster' nor would it be the first case of a child that's never been spanked turning to drugs or rebelling against their parents
you're drawing conclusions from too little evidence
|
Konichiwaffle
For profit


Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 466
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Moonshoe]
#19278508 - 12/15/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
My mother has worked for the government her whole life for the healthy child/ Early childhood development divisions her entire life. So she knows all the science which proves physically hitting/corporal punishment on children has only negative effects, on IQ, on emotional development, on physical health, on life chances, on well-being, life expectancy, self esteem etc etc.
Look at it this way, OP.
If you hit your children, you're only teaching them that violence and the use of force is a viable method to get your way.
Does anyone know who Stefan Molyneux is? I don't agree with him on everyting, but I think what his thoughts on childhood development and hitting children is dead-on:
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- My country is the world and my religion is to do good. -Justin Beiber
|
Uzziel
O_o


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 11,689
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
|
Quote:
Konichiwaffle said:
If you hit your children, you're only teaching them that violence and the use of force is a viable method to get your way.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,968
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
|
Quote:
Konichiwaffle said: If you hit your children, you're only teaching them that violence and the use of force is a viable method to get your way.
It clearly is a viable method to get your way.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Konichiwaffle
For profit


Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 466
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Uzziel]
#19278528 - 12/15/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Nice rebuttal.
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- My country is the world and my religion is to do good. -Justin Beiber
|
Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 11 minutes
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G] 1
#19278531 - 12/15/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crystal G said: It's not an appeal to authority. Tiger Mom was representative of the entire culture behind Asian parenting. "Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.
So, regarding tiger moms... http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/05/_tiger_mom_study_shows_the_parenting_method_doesn_t_work.html
This study states that authoritative parenting (exercise of power that is open to negotiation), not authoritarian or permissive parenting, shows the best results among white people.
I also believe that part of the reasons Asians have the highest rate of mental illness, and have the hardest time showing emotions or feeling sympathy and empathy for others, is because of the strict parenting and discipline. Children of tiger moms also perform worse academically than supportive parents, despite feeling more pressure to do well.
|
unam sanctum



Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 6,702
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: idiotek]
#19278535 - 12/15/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I have nothing against timely physical reprimands of anyone, not just kids. When words don't work, contact does. Not to imply contact has to be violent or that anger or nasty verbal counterparts are helpful in any way. A simple neck pinch and "tsk" works as good on children as dogs, and eventually the sound alone suffices.
|
badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,373
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Moonshoe]
#19278544 - 12/15/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I'm curious of all the (supposedly) massive amounts of data suggesting corporal punishment causes long-term decrements in adults.
Sure, there can be long-term effects when used in excess, but you can probably produce similar harms by grounding your kids for extended periods of time and preventing their social development.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
|
Konichiwaffle
For profit


Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 466
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
#19278545 - 12/15/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Not exactly what I mean.
It's an unhealthy method because it only begets more violence. The video will do a better job explaining what I'm trying to get at.
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- My country is the world and my religion is to do good. -Justin Beiber
|
Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 11 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: how will you claim that spanking leads to rebellion and drug abuse when we've just had a high profile case of a kid that wasnt spanked that killed 4 people and his defense was 'didnt know right from wrong', wouldnt a 19yo taking the car for a spin while drunk be a sign of rebellion, wouldnt it indicate the use of drugs... and yet he wasnt spanked and his certainly isnt the only case of the undisciplined child growing up to be a 'monster' nor would it be the first case of a child that's never been spanked turning to drugs or rebelling against their parents
you're drawing conclusions from too little evidence
We don't know whether he was spanked or not. Maybe he was.
The thing about overly affluent people, is that a lot of them end up severely fucked up too. Mostly because of lack of parenting, their parents are too busy working 80 hours a week to bother paying attention to their kids. So instead they shower their kids with toys and material things, and the kids end up growing fucked up because of it.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,968
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19278556 - 12/15/13 10:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crystal G said: Asians have the highest rate of mental illness
Do you have a source to back up this claim?
In the U.S., it appears to be false:
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Uzziel
O_o


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 11,689
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
|
Quote:
Konichiwaffle said: Not exactly what I mean.
It's an unhealthy method because it only begets more violence. The video will do a better job explaining what I'm trying to get at.
Right because everyone in the past who was hit as a kid turned into a violent individual
|
Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 11 minutes
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
#19278562 - 12/15/13 10:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Crystal G said: "Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.
That and the fact that we have a culture wherein people can hire therapists to coddle them through life and have insurance pick up part of the tab.
No. Most insurance plans only cover between 6-12 sessions of therapy.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19278565 - 12/15/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: much like the kids that receive no discipline
imagine that, people want to blame spankings as opposed to the entire upbringing, why yes, the nurturing of a child is important in not raising a 'monster' but it means didly squat apparently if someone spanks their kid
No discipline is just as bad as extreme discipline. People want to blame spankings because it is indicative of an adult with low patience levels, somebody who wants to put a quick stop to their child's behaviors at the expense of the future wellbeing of the child.
you just touched on a key issue, parents with little or no patience, but that then diverges away from the spanking being the root of the problem but it in fact falls back on the parenting
Quote:
Again, IDK how hard you're hitting these kids. Maybe it's not very hard. Maybe they don't even cry when they're getting hit. I don't really know.
I have full custody of both my kids at the insistence and with the assistance of several DFCS workers so it's very probably that spankings dont constitute abuse and dont lead to the bullshit that so many claim, I myself was abused but havent suffered in adulthood, never had to be subjected to therapy and I know what is and isnt appropriate when it comes to discipline
Quote:
It's not an appeal to authority. Tiger Mom was representative of the entire culture behind Asian parenting. "Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.
again, that couldnt have a thing to do with the overall upbringing, it was all about that book and how many parents took it to heart and disciplined their kids
|
|