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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278439 - 12/15/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:

Like I said in my original post, I have no problems with hitting TEENAGERS. (So much for your "affluenza" claim, maybe you should re-read my post.)





so teaching a child right from wrong should wait until they're in their
teens, a point in which it could be too late, remember, "old dog, new tricks"

why is hitting a teen more acceptable?




As I already said earlier, hitting teenagers does not traumatize or scar or hurt them deeply in the way that it affects children when you hit them.

The problem is, hitting a child might not end up with the results that you would like. If you end up traumatizing the child, the child could inadvertently end up becoming the teenage monster that you always wanted to prevent.




much like the kids that receive no discipline

imagine that, people want to blame spankings as opposed to the entire
upbringing, why yes, the nurturing of a child is important in not raising a
'monster' but it means didly squat apparently if someone spanks their kid

Quote:

Remember the lady who wrote "Tiger Mom?" Well 2 years after she wrote the book she recanted her beliefs, because once her daughter turned 13 she started rebelling against her strict mom.





nope. dont remember her but once again, it's an appeal to authority, it
would be like me citing Benjamin Spock as an advocate against spanking,
citing the recantation as proof that he was 'wrong' when in reality, Dr.
Spock didnt say that corporal punishment was off the table, he felt it was
in fact appropriate in some instances but there is in fact a line that
shouldnt be approached and that's where the abuse begins


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Mescalean]
    #19278441 - 12/15/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:

HITTING KIDS WORKS.





It generally turns the kids of cunts into little cunts, if you mean that then yes, it works great.

I believe in the parental emergency swat, because sometimes its really vital to get split second compliance but I'm against beating of children as a haphazard or ritualized form of punishment.

A parental emergency swat should be followed up on as soon as expedient with thge parent explaining their behavior and the urgency of it and include an apology for the swat.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19278450 - 12/15/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
much like the kids that receive no discipline

imagine that, people want to blame spankings as opposed to the entire upbringing, why yes, the nurturing of a child is important in not raising a 'monster' but it means didly squat apparently if someone spanks their kid




No discipline is just as bad as extreme discipline. People want to blame spankings because it is indicative of an adult with low patience levels, somebody who wants to put a quick stop to their child's behaviors at the expense of the future wellbeing of the child.

Again, IDK how hard you're hitting these kids. Maybe it's not very hard. Maybe they don't even cry when they're getting hit. I don't really know.

Quote:


nope. dont remember her but once again, it's an appeal to authority, it
would be like me citing Benjamin Spock as an advocate against spanking,
citing the recantation as proof that he was 'wrong' when in reality, Dr.
Spock didnt say that corporal punishment was off the table, he felt it was
in fact appropriate in some instances but there is in fact a line that
shouldnt be approached and that's where the abuse begins




It's not an appeal to authority. Tiger Mom was representative of the entire culture behind Asian parenting. "Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.


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Invisibleidiotek
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19278451 - 12/15/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just another form of discipline.  Like anything else, people can apply it incorrectly or go overboard.  The point is not to inflict severe physical pain, but rather set limits and consequences.  Make kids think about what they do before they give in to impulse.  Conditioning.


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OfflineBig_Dave
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278475 - 12/15/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know, While I have a pretty good relationship with my parents,they never really hit me and I still ended up rebellious and involved with drugs. And I also think some of you are mixing punishment and abuse. The fact that it has negative long term effects kinda makes it abuse by definition. Proper physical punishment would have no negative long term consequences. The most responsible people I know have great relationships with their parents even though their parents had to lay it down sometimes.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278484 - 12/15/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
"Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.



That and the fact that we have a culture wherein people can hire therapists to coddle them through life and have insurance pick up part of the tab.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278489 - 12/15/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Mescalean said:
Ill throw this in. All the boys in my family are little shits. I was, my dad was, my cousins, every one of us.

We were all punished physically.  Usually after the first belt/woodenspoon/soap (liquid) we usually didn't hit or say that word after that.

HITTING KIDS WORKS.




And how did you end up growing up as a teenager? Did you become rebellious and start taking drugs?





I was abused, physically beaten with what ever object was handy, I was
'emotionally' abused because my step father couldnt resist saying I was
stupid, it that I had no sense or what ever else came to mind

do I use drugs? rarely as it has been throughout my adolescence and adult life
was I rebellious? no, I had a great deal of respect and love for my mother
and still see my step father as someone I learned a great deal from, one of
the things I learned from him was respect

how will you claim that spanking leads to rebellion and drug abuse when
we've just had a high profile case of a kid that wasnt spanked that killed
4 people and his defense was 'didnt know right from wrong', wouldnt a 19yo
taking the car for a spin while drunk be a sign of rebellion, wouldnt it
indicate the use of drugs... and yet he wasnt spanked and his certainly
isnt the only case of the undisciplined child growing up to be a 'monster'
nor would it be the first case of a child that's never been spanked turning
to drugs or rebelling against their parents


you're drawing conclusions from too little evidence


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OfflineKonichiwaffle
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19278508 - 12/15/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

My mother has worked for the government her whole life for the healthy child/ Early childhood development divisions her entire life. So she knows all the science which proves physically hitting/corporal punishment on children has only negative effects, on IQ, on emotional development, on physical health, on life chances, on well-being, life expectancy, self esteem etc etc.




Look at it this way, OP.

If you hit your children, you're only teaching them that violence and the use of force is a viable method to get your way.

Does anyone know who Stefan Molyneux is?  I don't agree with him on everyting, but I think what his thoughts on childhood development and hitting children is dead-on:



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OfflineUzziel
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Konichiwaffle]
    #19278520 - 12/15/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Konichiwaffle said:




If you hit your children, you're only teaching them that violence and the use of force is a viable method to get your way.








:facepalm:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Konichiwaffle] * 1
    #19278526 - 12/15/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Konichiwaffle said:
If you hit your children, you're only teaching them that violence and the use of force is a viable method to get your way.




It clearly is a viable method to get your way.


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OfflineKonichiwaffle
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Uzziel]
    #19278528 - 12/15/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Nice rebuttal.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #19278531 - 12/15/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
It's not an appeal to authority. Tiger Mom was representative of the entire culture behind Asian parenting. "Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.




So, regarding tiger moms... http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/05/_tiger_mom_study_shows_the_parenting_method_doesn_t_work.html

This study states that authoritative parenting (exercise of power that is open to negotiation), not authoritarian or permissive parenting, shows the best results among white people.

I also believe that part of the reasons Asians have the highest rate of mental illness, and have the hardest time showing emotions or feeling sympathy and empathy for others, is because of the strict parenting and discipline. Children of tiger moms also perform worse academically than supportive parents, despite feeling more pressure to do well.


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Invisibleunam sanctum
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Re: Hitting children [Re: idiotek]
    #19278535 - 12/15/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have nothing against timely physical reprimands of anyone, not just kids. When words don't work, contact does.  Not to imply contact has to be violent or that anger or nasty verbal counterparts are helpful in any way.  A simple neck pinch and "tsk" works as good on children as dogs, and eventually the sound alone suffices.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19278544 - 12/15/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm curious of all the (supposedly) massive amounts of data suggesting corporal punishment causes long-term decrements in adults.

Sure, there can be long-term effects when used in excess, but you can probably produce similar harms by grounding your kids for extended periods of time and preventing their social development.


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Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

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OfflineKonichiwaffle
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
    #19278545 - 12/15/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not exactly what I mean.

It's an unhealthy method because it only begets more violence.  The video will do a better job explaining what I'm trying to get at.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19278546 - 12/15/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
how will you claim that spanking leads to rebellion and drug abuse when
we've just had a high profile case of a kid that wasnt spanked that killed
4 people and his defense was 'didnt know right from wrong', wouldnt a 19yo
taking the car for a spin while drunk be a sign of rebellion, wouldnt it
indicate the use of drugs... and yet he wasnt spanked and his certainly
isnt the only case of the undisciplined child growing up to be a 'monster'
nor would it be the first case of a child that's never been spanked turning
to drugs or rebelling against their parents


you're drawing conclusions from too little evidence




We don't know whether he was spanked or not. Maybe he was.

The thing about overly affluent people, is that a lot of them end up severely fucked up too. Mostly because of lack of parenting, their parents are too busy working 80 hours a week to bother paying attention to their kids. So instead they shower their kids with toys and material things, and the kids end up growing fucked up because of it.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278556 - 12/15/13 10:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Asians have the highest rate of mental illness



Do you have a source to back up this claim?

In the U.S., it appears to be false:



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OfflineUzziel
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Konichiwaffle]
    #19278559 - 12/15/13 10:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Konichiwaffle said:
Not exactly what I mean.

It's an unhealthy method because it only begets more violence.  The video will do a better job explaining what I'm trying to get at.




Right because everyone in the past who was hit as a kid turned into a violent individual


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Enlil]
    #19278562 - 12/15/13 10:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
"Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.



That and the fact that we have a culture wherein people can hire therapists to coddle them through life and have insurance pick up part of the tab.




No. Most insurance plans only cover between 6-12 sessions of therapy.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
    #19278565 - 12/15/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
much like the kids that receive no discipline

imagine that, people want to blame spankings as opposed to the entire upbringing, why yes, the nurturing of a child is important in not raising a 'monster' but it means didly squat apparently if someone spanks their kid




No discipline is just as bad as extreme discipline. People want to blame spankings because it is indicative of an adult with low patience levels, somebody who wants to put a quick stop to their child's behaviors at the expense of the future wellbeing of the child.




you just touched on a key issue, parents with little or no patience, but
that then diverges away from the spanking being the root of the problem but
it in fact falls back on the parenting

Quote:

Again, IDK how hard you're hitting these kids. Maybe it's not very hard. Maybe they don't even cry when they're getting hit. I don't really know.




I have full custody of both my kids at the insistence and with the
assistance of several DFCS workers so it's very probably that spankings
dont constitute abuse and dont lead to the bullshit that so many claim, I
myself was abused but havent suffered in adulthood, never had to be
subjected to therapy and I know what is and isnt appropriate when it comes
to discipline

Quote:


It's not an appeal to authority. Tiger Mom was representative of the entire culture behind Asian parenting. "Tiger Moms" are the reason that lots of young Asian adults are in therapy today.




again, that couldnt have a thing to do with the overall upbringing, it was
all about that book and how many parents took it to heart and disciplined
their kids


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