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InvisiblehTx
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Love is an Illusion
    #19277817 - 12/15/13 05:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

complicated,  of course. however if two people fall in love, it seems always conditional, thus an illusion. seems to apply to more than 'lovers'.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx] * 4
    #19277826 - 12/15/13 05:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

is pain an illusion? it's also always conditional


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277836 - 12/15/13 05:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yea pain is an illusion made from electrical signals in your brain that something is wrong.

love is something that's right
.


feel me?


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19277859 - 12/15/13 06:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

kinda.. things being wrong and right are also illusions though right? :laugh:

i think you need to say more about why love is an illusion..


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277863 - 12/15/13 06:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

everything. conditional is an illusion..right? take a condition away..byebye curtain.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19277868 - 12/15/13 06:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

but everything is conditional... :undecided:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277874 - 12/15/13 06:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

maybe Buddha was on to something.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19277884 - 12/15/13 06:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

naw he was just a lonely dude who used the most elaborate reverse psychology in history to get ppl to like & follow him :sadyes:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277894 - 12/15/13 06:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

maybe.

but. everything is an illusion, he called that one.

there's levels to this shit.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19277895 - 12/15/13 06:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

all an illusion, a creative painting elaborate and detailed

and your the artist.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277900 - 12/15/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i wouldnt call love an illusion unless there were some reason that it was more illusory than other things. you may be on to something but i'm yet to be convinced


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19277901 - 12/15/13 06:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

we're painting eachother


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277903 - 12/15/13 06:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

(do you do good spidermans?)


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277918 - 12/15/13 06:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

not all love, if love is conditional than it becomes an illusion
an easily destroyed one.

poor devestated false structure of the mind, alas love will remain in uncondition.

so, love is also real. its yes no maybe.

maybe.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277924 - 12/15/13 06:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19277927 - 12/15/13 06:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

you cant love something without the condition of it at least being that thing


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx] * 3
    #19277939 - 12/15/13 06:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
complicated,  of course. however if two people fall in love, it seems always conditional, thus an illusion. seems to apply to more than 'lovers'.




I don't believe in what I call love. Cause that would have to be unconditional and imo that cannot exist in separate entities that must compete to exist.

However there is "like" and some of that is much healthier that other types.  Romantic love usually is lust + insecurity but can grow in the right soil to mutual friendship and real like.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: White Beard]
    #19277946 - 12/15/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

hah i feel i'm not high enough to properly appreciate that cartoon


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277947 - 12/15/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

is being a condition or a thing ?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277950 - 12/15/13 06:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
hah i feel i'm not high enough to properly appreciate that cartoon



I am. (:


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19277964 - 12/15/13 06:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
is being a condition or a thing ?




idk?.. the condition of living things?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19277978 - 12/15/13 07:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'd say its the medium of conditions and living things, since being just is, unconditional.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19277995 - 12/15/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

what if love is the only thing that isnt an illusion?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: lessismore]
    #19278004 - 12/15/13 07:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

being seems the only thing not am illusion, underneath the layers there may ne an unconditional love with that, sure.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19278012 - 12/15/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

sure i could go with that


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19278014 - 12/15/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

what. love do you speak of? I love lamp, lamp break, fuck lamp.

I love girlfriend, girl breaks up, fuck girl.

love is attraction, that. much can be said, and attraction rules the universe


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19278039 - 12/15/13 07:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
what. love do you speak of? I love lamp, lamp break, fuck lamp.

I love girlfriend, girl breaks up, fuck girl.

love is attraction, that. much can be said, and attraction rules the universe




You love lamp?  That's fucking hawt.  First you break lamp, then you fuck lamp.  Wow.  Poor lamp got abused.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #19278046 - 12/15/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

are you special


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19278054 - 12/15/13 07:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
are you special




no you are.  i can tell.  i have a special talent for sensing special.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #19278062 - 12/15/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

thanks I figured u were a little special but if you percieve yourself not.to be than power.

black power.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19278159 - 12/15/13 08:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The power of the river
Alpha Waves in the air
White noise from the
White rapids reflecting
White moonlight
In the black of the night

All an illusion
For my future enjoyment
Power is dreaming and
Making it real later


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #19278177 - 12/15/13 08:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mio said:
what if love is the only thing that isnt an illusion?





what if? :curbyourenthusiasm:  That seems to be the basis of most all of your posts here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19278191 - 12/15/13 08:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

that's hardly relevant.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx] * 1
    #19278491 - 12/15/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

To you, being in the same boat. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19278513 - 12/15/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

same boat different rivers but rivers nonetheless.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx] * 1
    #19278561 - 12/15/13 10:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think love is an illusion.
I think it's the foundation of reality, but we aren't equipped with anything more than the feelings to base an argument for it.
We have perceptions and judgments that can lobby one way or the other, but at the end of the day we can't discern the reality of this thing..

It's apparent to me within all the kingdoms of this world.  It could just be biology and the way we are made to keep this whole game continuing, but it's everywhere none the less.

I'm not referring to "falling in love" for I've never done so :sad:
I also think a lot of times it's more-so "falling in lust."


I've experienced the feeling of what I would call love on a psychological level enough times that I can't dismiss it as only an illusion.


Edited by cez (12/15/13 10:23 AM)


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19278581 - 12/15/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
complicated,  of course. however if two people fall in love, it seems always conditional, thus an illusion. seems to apply to more than 'lovers'.




Love is just a four letter word


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: cez]
    #19278605 - 12/15/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

natural state is just that.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19278608 - 12/15/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

just is a four letter love word.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19279077 - 12/15/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
just is a four letter love word.




See what I mean? It means absolutely nothing.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19281630 - 12/15/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

exactly., its fluff.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19281753 - 12/15/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

if you want to talk about love as meaning you should describe it in relation to other things that have meaning, if you want to talk about it as a word you should be describing how it behaves linguistically

you are taking a linguistic unit out of the context it is used in and concluding it is useless.. it's like taking a tire off a car and then concluding it's only good for a swing


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19282854 - 12/16/13 08:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's possible to love someone for reasons that have no personal gain other than enjoyment of expression. It's not unconditional because things change, but there is a certain level of reliability to it when we accept people for what they are (what you see is what you get) rather than projecting ones ideas onto someone else.


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rahz

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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Rahz]
    #19283235 - 12/16/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Dont you agree though that for the most part we have a hard enough time accepting ourselves as we are let alone others?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Kickle]
    #19283705 - 12/16/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

After you've lived long enough and have seen how expectations can make things worse it becomes a bit easier to loosen up about it... though it's not something whose fundamental existence is dependent on a resolution. I suspect it's a fundamental part of the human experience whether we pause to be aware of it or not.

This would make 'lack of love' the illusion. Self acceptance sure, but there's also self exploration. What's it like to be unloved? What's it like to reject someone? To be rejected? People often feel a need to know these things. We can blame it on the past, but how far back does that go? People want to understand their potential and they generally have to get their hands dirty to do so.


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Rahz]
    #19283889 - 12/16/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think we can blame it on death and survival personally. We have a very hard time accepting threatening/traumatizing stimuli, regardless of source. And it is nigh impossible for another person not to be threatening to us in some way at some point. That's a real hurdle to acceptance of anyone including ourselves if you ask me.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Kickle]
    #19284047 - 12/16/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Love IS an illusion..... But only when it is on a conditional level.

Love IS real..... But only when it is on an unconditional level.


Maybe unconditional love lays deep within the soul. And once we are able to truly, unconditionally, love our selves.... Can we truly, and unconditionally, love the world outside ourselves.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: JadedMycology]
    #19284178 - 12/16/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think we get to live with both. They're not directly related so one doesn't exactly replace the other.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: JadedMycology]
    #19284281 - 12/16/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JadedMycology said:
Love IS an illusion..... But only when it is on a conditional level.
Love IS real..... But only when it is on an unconditional level.

Maybe unconditional love lays deep within the soul. And once we are able to truly, unconditionally, love our selves.... Can we truly, and unconditionally, love the world outside ourselves.




Sounds like you plagiarized random hindu cult #368 section B/12

Love is just a word.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19284310 - 12/16/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

everything's just a word so that's not saying very much


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Kickle]
    #19284380 - 12/16/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
I think we can blame it on death and survival personally. We have a very hard time accepting threatening/traumatizing stimuli, regardless of source. And it is nigh impossible for another person not to be threatening to us in some way at some point. That's a real hurdle to acceptance of anyone including ourselves if you ask me.



which kind of personal qualities do you think are more likely to cause suffering to maintain? maybe thoughts that distance us from others.. the desire for or assumption of something that is unattainable (for example if you clung to the romantic ideal of love as something to save you from your life).. hmm yep i seem to do that kinda stuff a bunch.. reflecting on and identifying with suffering is probably another.. 'i must suffer because all great people suffered'


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19284462 - 12/16/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Huh??

I wrote the thoughts that I had on this matter. No plagiarism.

But...uhm.... I guess I will just take it as a compliment?


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19284471 - 12/16/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Love seems to be a biological function to keep individuals grouping together.
Its properties of caring and feeding can be seen in almost every mammal.
Real enough for me.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: JadedMycology]
    #19284543 - 12/16/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JadedMycology said:
Love IS an illusion..... But only when it is on a conditional level.

Love IS real..... But only when it is on an unconditional level.


Maybe unconditional love lays deep within the soul. And once we are able to truly, unconditionally, love our selves.... Can we truly, and unconditionally, love the world outside ourselves.



winner winner chicken dinner.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19284661 - 12/16/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
I think we can blame it on death and survival personally. We have a very hard time accepting threatening/traumatizing stimuli, regardless of source. And it is nigh impossible for another person not to be threatening to us in some way at some point. That's a real hurdle to acceptance of anyone including ourselves if you ask me.



which kind of personal qualities do you think are more likely to cause suffering to maintain? maybe thoughts that distance us from others.. the desire for or assumption of something that is unattainable (for example if you clung to the romantic ideal of love as something to save you from your life).. hmm yep i seem to do that kinda stuff a bunch.. reflecting on and identifying with suffering is probably another.. 'i must suffer because all great people suffered'





I'd say personal honesty seems to be difficult to maintain when not dressed up.  As far as I can tell each of us can be pressed into a mental/emotional corner in which we are very uncomfortable just through the inability to hide from an undesirable truth about ourselves. And the longer we are able to bury it, hide it, mask it... the more it bites us in the ass. In my experience anywho.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: JadedMycology]
    #19284783 - 12/16/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JadedMycology said:
Love IS an illusion..... But only when it is on a conditional level.

Love IS real..... But only when it is on an unconditional level.


Maybe unconditional love lays deep within the soul. And once we are able to truly, unconditionally, love our selves.... Can we truly, and unconditionally, love the world outside ourselves.




Not a chance. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Kickle]
    #19285495 - 12/16/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

it's weird that being pressed can be a good thing and also something to avoid at all costs.. i find the first sentence a bit confusing as it seems to imply effectively maintaining personal honesty requires a degree of 'dressing it up' or deception


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn] * 1
    #19285544 - 12/16/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Freud felt that creative expression was the best "dress" that could be given to the harshness of life. Humor came in second. These were his ideals for healthy coping. If you don't turn the harshness of life into something else, or laugh about it, its a real bummer to be honest about.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #19285681 - 12/16/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm into the humor thang. :cheersyoufuck:


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Kickle]
    #19285781 - 12/16/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

cool i didn't know he said that. it rings pretty true... i was also thinking how some people present very differently to their more personal selves.. like how icelander is just a big ol cuddly bear deep down


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19287069 - 12/17/13 04:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The strangest thing about love to me is what I experienced after the end of my last relationship...
I never fell out of love... Due to my realization that it all came from myself to begin with... In the right state, I can access the very feelings I had for her, non-attached to my experiences with her and draw on that euphoria and use that to have more empathy and compassion for myself and others...
That's all fine and dandy and liberating/enlightening...
But...
What I miss the most...
Is the sex.
Go figure? :shrug: :lol:

:monkeydance:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19287074 - 12/17/13 04:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

An autistic  cuddly bear. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19287076 - 12/17/13 04:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:
The strangest thing about love to me is what I experienced after the end of my last relationship...
I never fell out of love... Due to my realization that it all came from myself to begin with... In the right state, I can access the very feelings I had for her, non-attached to my experiences with her and draw on that euphoria and use that to have more empathy and compassion for myself and others...
That's all fine and dandy and liberating/enlightening...
But...
What I miss the most...
Is the sex.
Go figure? :shrug: :lol:

:monkeydance:





Ask yourself this.  Were it not for the sex and physical attraction would you ever share your life with any woman on the levels we do?  If you are honest with your answer you'll wonder where the love enters into the equation.

If you're like me you'll maintain your own life and then really like some women enough to be good friends. Course I'm old. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19287077 - 12/17/13 04:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Physics tells us EVERYTHING's an illusion.
Are we even here to love something that might not be here either? :eek:

BTW Louis Lamour is the SHIT


--------------------
Well at least thats what my granmother would say, Medicine from the hinterland :thor:

Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart ... Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. - Carl Jung


Edited by Amishmedic8 (12/17/13 04:18 AM)


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19287102 - 12/17/13 04:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Love might often be temporary, that doesn't mean it's always an illusion.

God damn, I thought I was cynical but then there's you lot.

Real cheery bunch, aren't you?


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Into The Woods]
    #19287118 - 12/17/13 04:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:lol:

in time my child :evil2:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Into The Woods]
    #19287129 - 12/17/13 04:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Into The Woods said:
Love might often be temporary, that doesn't mean it's always an illusion.

God damn, I thought I was cynical but then there's you lot.

Real cheery bunch, aren't you?





Of course it's an illusion. :lol:


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19287131 - 12/17/13 04:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

all cuddly bears are autistic that's why they're so dysfunctional at being bears :nicekitty:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: quinn]
    #19287460 - 12/17/13 07:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

oh


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19287581 - 12/17/13 08:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
yea pain is an illusion made from electrical signals in your brain that something is wrong.

love is something that's right
.


feel me?




:orry:

That's a weird logic ya got there

You mean to say that if an experience arises from a set of signals in reaction to certain stimuli- that that is an illusion? :what:

I think you need to define your definition of illusion a little better, because the way I got that just now- it's way too loose and superficial, imo.

I'm not here to discuss what love is, because I have no idea. I'm just going with it :shrug:

But I'm interested in the 'illusion' part :lol:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19287607 - 12/17/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Into The Woods said:
Love might often be temporary, that doesn't mean it's always an illusion.

God damn, I thought I was cynical but then there's you lot.

Real cheery bunch, aren't you?





Of course it's an illusion. :lol:




My love is real :crankey:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Into The Woods]
    #19287719 - 12/17/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

link?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19287774 - 12/17/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

LOL


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Into The Woods]
    #19288180 - 12/17/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

how do you describe pain? it hurts?

it stings? its bad?

emotional pain? ouch?
some people are born without any concept or feeling for pain at all. its a subjective, albeit useful illusion..many times pain can be worse or less just by thought alone thus an illusion.

the same with love, specifically. romance.

love at first sight?! of the car..house..bank account..
personality..
change one of those and byebye love.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19288371 - 12/17/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

how
do you define real? if it you define it as what you can feel, see, touch...than real is simply electric signals interepeted by the brain.

:tongue2:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19288382 - 12/17/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There is difference between falling in love, and true love..


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19288394 - 12/17/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Will you please start by defining the word "illusion" as you use it in this discussion's context? :rolleyes:


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Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icyus]
    #19288447 - 12/17/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I agree, but how would you know for sure if it was real or a veil, able to be seen through?

there are probably multiple things about a single something, some event that are all true and contradictory at the same time..and seen through perhaps many perspectives as one we approximate closer to what is.

but unconditional love, for a few obvious reasons, is hard to maintain..and if it isn't permanent, if it cannot be maintained than it to is aactually conditional.

only permanent change on an up to unconscious. level towards unconditional love would actually be unconditional love. 
illusion being a facade, false, whether believing. it or living it.

your current perception,  for instance,  is an illusion. a low dose of sillycybin would show you that mush.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19288466 - 12/17/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Still waiting on that definition for illusion...

:waitingpatiently:

Or are you reluctant to answer me because you know that all your neat sophistry is held together by the ambiguousness of said concept? :shrug:


--------------------
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Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19288512 - 12/17/13 12:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MotherNaturesSon said:
Still waiting on that definition for illusion...

:waitingpatiently:

Or are you reluctant to answer me because you know that all your neat sophistry is held together by the ambiguousness of said concept? :shrug:



you will just ignore certain information impose your own and define it yourself anyways.

:wink:

nomsayin.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19288568 - 12/17/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Why thank you for taking your time to impose your superior knowledge of my future behaviour, however, I am frankly disinterested in more of your sophistry :tongue:

And if you can't define one of the core concepts of your own argument, then your words reach little beyond just that, imo :lol:

I'm not going to define illusion because I don't believe in illusions or truth and their place in the whole enlightenment fetish. :rolleyes:

I humbly (yeah right :smirk: ) stick to genuineness and self-deceit :shrug:


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19288639 - 12/17/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

you can be genuine and still live in an illusion, take the movie the Truman show for example. I don't know what sophistry your speaking of your just crying over a definition, fucking Google it.

define real and what isn't but appears to be is an illusion.

herpderp


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19288655 - 12/17/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

and your the only one with the enlightenment fetish since your the only one talking about it.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19288712 - 12/17/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

its factual actually that your perception.is an illusion, are you claiming objective reality?

you live in a tunnel,  shaped by how you view the world and yourself, and it is unique.

and it is yours.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19288859 - 12/17/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Ask yourself this.  Were it not for the sex and physical attraction would you ever share your life with any woman on the levels we do?  If you are honest with your answer you'll wonder where the love enters into the equation.

If you're like me you'll maintain your own life and then really like some women enough to be good friends. Course I'm old. :lol:





I often think about this very thing... They are obvious factors in seeking out a woman and I pay close attention to it, watch myself and don't let myself get involved with women for such basal reasons anymore.

A large handful of my friends are in relationships in which they are blatantly unhappy and have absolutely no logical reason to still be with that person other than sex...
It's painful to watch. Then there are also my friends whom subject themselves to relationships and all their chains just to get laid...
I really don't understand it anymore.

As I am getting older, I'm finding a lot more value in the aspects of relationships that deal with communication and empathy.
Which if a strong and genuine romantic connection is built, equates to far better sex any how...

Quite a few friends of mine have been perturbed by my rejection of a couple beautiful women as of recent, even speculating behind my back like a gaggle of washed up gossiping house wives that I have some latent homosexuality. :facepalm:

Pretending that I can build a meaningful relationship with a pretty woman so I can stick my penis in her, despite her not being on the same page emotionally and intellectually is not only downright foolish, but cruel and damaging to that person in the long run.

I find a lot of peace and beauty in my aloneness these days and am in no big hurry to bring a woman into my life who would disrupt that.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx] * 1
    #19289647 - 12/17/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
you can be genuine and still live in an illusion, take the movie the Truman show for example. I don't know what sophistry your speaking of your just crying over a definition, fucking Google it.

define real and what isn't but appears to be is an illusion.

herpderp




Quote:

hTx said:
and your the only one with the enlightenment fetish since your the only one talking about it.




Quote:

hTx said:
its factual actually that your perception.is an illusion, are you claiming objective reality?

you live in a tunnel,  shaped by how you view the world and yourself, and it is unique.

and it is yours.




:whateveryousayfreak:

You needed three wholly separate posts to lash out like that?

Need I remind you of this?

Quote:

hTx said:
[...]Rudeness seeks to rile up the anger in another, we begin acting on that emotion, instead of seeking progress, we seek to "win".

[...]

If we react to rudeness in kindness we may inspire kindness. If we react to kindness in rudeness we may inspire rudeness.

I am trying to become more kind in every interaction, especially towards rudeness. This is something I work on everyday...




You got a rating 5 for this a while back. Well it looks like you weren't working on this today :grin: And before you go bananas- yes I was being a little rude. But that's because I'm genuinely tired of reading these know-it-all enlightenment textual masturbations. People like you present a moot point and then do whatever possible to defend it, including dancing around constructive questioning and criticism with sophistic nonsense (that is to say "without actually saying anything"), because obviously your opinion of everything is simply flawless and you are enlightened. You hTx are the one to say what is and isn't an illusion, especially since love and illusion aren't ambiguous concepts at all in the world of who-wants-to-be-enlightened?

Riiiiight...

:ohyou: 

I'm mentioning an enlightenment fetish in relation to your behaviour around other people and how you respond to them questioning your most esteemed opinion.

Anyways, you want to do this? Alright, we will do this :shrug:

So let me get this straight; you're going to base an argument concerning the relationship between genuineness and illusion on a movie you saw on television, without having as much as properly defined what illusion means in the context of the topic at hand? Well of course, the definition is completely irrelevant right? I mean who cares.

Right then. You wanna use the google definition? Google says: "An illusion is an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience."

So basically what you were saying was that "Love is an instance of a wrong and misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience" Is that correct?

:ducklol:

Funny thing is, you're saying something as if your statement was self-explanatory. Which it isn't. Even after you (hardly) clarified the definition of the word that you equalled love to via google, you haven't made much more of a point than you did back with the "Love is an illusion" bit. So unless you care to expand and explain- you're neither talking philosophy, sociology or  psychology, you're simply talking sophistry, which again, means that you have said exactly NOTHING (since you said you don't know what sophistry I'm referring to) :lol:

Saying things like "[insert touchy, personal and seemingly well-established topic here] is an illusion" is a sophistic stunt wannabe philosophers and enlightenment enthusiasts use all the time to seem like they have the balls to see past what other so foolishly have committed themselves to. That way, they indirectly present themselves as being deep. Lucky keepers of this rare bit of knowledge and so detached from the 'mainstream' perception.

It's like philohipsters..... Love is an illusion, the self is an illusion, life is an illusion, feelings are an illusion, other people are an illusion, illusions are an illusion! 

And please, I ask you to leave my reality alone. I don't want you putting little "I'm recycling opinions of actual great thinkers" stickers on it. Such as "objective reality" (Gottlob Frege - Objectivism). It's freaky! Your very mistake is thinking everyone around you are having the same experiences and opinions (that are illusions), whilst yours are different and therefore somehow more potent and refined. But my reality, is simply put, my reality and it's none of your business to go ahead and define it for me. It's simply unsatisfactory and unethical on a wholly different level than the mere impoliteness I was displaying (albeit after three separate failed attempts to get an answer from you when you so actively answered everyone who agreed with you) :shrug: I'm also disinterested in how you believe your own opinion of reality applies to me, so keep the 'you live in a tunnel' act too.

In fact, I did not care to discuss wether love actually was or wasn't a so called 'illusion'. I merely wanted you to explain your (controversial) position, starting by pointing out what the word illusion means in your vocabulary in this particular instance so we could avoid the nasty phenomena of "but the way I understand illusion is a little different from what the ordinary definition of illusion is" in the future. Because this framework of miscommunication tends to happen a lot in these kind of discussions. :tongue2:

But sadly we can't seem to get past that since you refuse to answer me. Why? You don't have to answer. You obviously just want to be enlightened and teach us of what is and is not a faulty interpretation of any given subject as long as nobody questions you. Typical 21st century enlightenment if you ask me :shrug:

Getting us nowhere, it is... (imo)

Well whatever, just forget it then.

:wowjustwow:


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."


Edited by MotherNaturesSon (12/17/13 05:32 PM)


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19289694 - 12/17/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

In the eight+ years I've been here it's usually the ones that lash out the most that make these "we need to all act better around each other" posts. :curbyourenthusiasm:  They are the ones usually getting warned and banned but spend all their time pointing fingers at other posters to boot. :haha:


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19293638 - 12/18/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

well this has been a fine example of how many different perceptions about a single event can happen,  I've been rather light hearted throughout this topic. I suppose your right, saying love is an illusion isn't saying much not trying make excuses but im on a mobile and haven't had a chance to elaborate.

just because I said fucking Google it doesn't mean I'm not beimg kind, either.

your showing obvious emotional bias, and somebody seems a lil touchy about their reality tunnel hmmm? (;

you admotted to being rude. if you got rid of your own enlightenment fetish you'd know what OP was truly about.
o well


hope you get to feeling better buddy, whatever it is.


--------------------
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19293854 - 12/18/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
well this has been a fine example of how many different perceptions about a single event can happen,  I've been rather light hearted throughout this topic. I suppose your right, saying love is an illusion isn't saying much not trying make excuses but im on a mobile and haven't had a chance to elaborate.

just because I said fucking Google it doesn't mean I'm not beimg kind, either.

your showing obvious emotional bias, and somebody seems a lil touchy about their reality tunnel hmmm? (;

you admotted to being rude. if you got rid of your own enlightenment fetish you'd know what OP was truly about.
o well


hope you get to feeling better buddy, whatever it is.




Look, I'm completely disinterested in your attempt to attack me personally, but let me give you a humbling lesson here.

Need I remind you that this is the PS&P forum? The description of this section in the message board goes as following:

"This debate-oriented forum is for the discussion of philosophical ideas that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning [...] Personal attacks will not be tolerated, though critical analysis of the ideas presented is encouraged."

See the part that says 'ideas that are backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning.' ??

Well, here's you saying

Quote:

hTx said:
I suppose your right, saying love is an illusion isn't saying much not trying make excuses but im on a mobile and haven't had a chance to elaborate.




Dude. You're 5 pages in here. No time to elaborate? You should have elaborated in your first post and that was all that I was trying to make you do in the first place. I asked you 3 separate times.


Quote:

MotherNaturesSon said:
:orry:

That's a weird logic ya got there

You mean to say that if an experience arises from a set of signals in reaction to certain stimuli- that that is an illusion? :what:

I think you need to define your definition of illusion a little better, because the way I got that just now- it's way too loose and superficial, imo.

I'm not here to discuss what love is, because I have no idea. I'm just going with it :shrug:

But I'm interested in the 'illusion' part :lol:




Quote:

MotherNaturesSon said:
Will you please start by defining the word "illusion" as you use it in this discussion's context? :rolleyes:




Quote:

MotherNaturesSon said:
Still waiting on that definition for illusion...

:waitingpatiently:

Or are you reluctant to answer me because you know that all your neat sophistry is held together by the ambiguousness of said concept? :shrug:




Instead I got a plain and know-it-all NO

Quote:

hTx said:
(NO,) you will just ignore certain information impose your own and define it yourself anyways.

:wink:

nomsayin.




Followed by sophistry and sleights on how narrow my understanding is compared to your refined opinion of existence and how what you know is "factual".

Quote:

hTx said:
I don't know what sophistry your speaking of your just crying over a definition, fucking Google it.

herpderp

its factual actually that your perception.is an illusion [...]

you live in a tunnel [...]






Which brings me to the second half of the description of this forum. "Personal attacks will not be tolerated, though critical analysis of the ideas presented is encouraged." Your personal oriented behaviour is not going to be tolerated, so I suggest you cool it before you cross that fine line, because I merely presented critical analysis to the table, which is encouraged.

Not only have you failed to present a philosophical idea that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic or reasoning (even five pages in, even after you are directly asked to elaborate on an aspect of your statement), you have responded to critical analysis of your statement with (subtle) personal sleights and snubness.

THIS CONSISTENTLY PROVES YOU HAVE BROKEN EVERYTHING PS&P STANDS FOR.

Where I a mod- I would consider issuing a warning.

But since I am not I'm just going leave that decision to someone responsible and bid you good day.

:likeaboss: :goodluckwiththat:


PS.
The last bit of the PS&P forum description says this: "If you wish to express your ideas in a less critical environment, consider visiting our Spirituality & Mysticism forum."


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19294196 - 12/18/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

WTF are you talking about? :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19294239 - 12/18/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

shush you!

:zomgwtf:

don't jinx the moment

________________________________


EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the Re: hTx on your post :facepalm: just ignore this post

:pokerawe:


Edited by MotherNaturesSon (12/18/13 05:17 PM)


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19294309 - 12/18/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's very easy to ignore what you say. :ass:


Just kidding (sort of) :lol::heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19294643 - 12/18/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Where is the love?



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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #19294828 - 12/18/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MotherNaturesSon said:
Which brings me to the second half of the description of this forum. "Personal attacks will not be tolerated, though critical analysis of the ideas presented is encouraged." Your personal oriented behaviour is not going to be tolerated, so I suggest you cool it before you cross that fine line, because I merely presented critical analysis to the table, which is encouraged.




I agree with your arguments up until here.  When you respond with "I'm genuinely tired of reading these know-it-all enlightenment textual masturbations", it kind of irks me that you would go so far as to accuse the other party with "personal oriented behavior" just because they have been a little more direct.  You're still making indirect personalisms here (how can masturbations be know-it-all), which isn't against the rules sure, but I do gotta call you out on this because of my own gut issues.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Hobozen]
    #19294896 - 12/18/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This here place is a gaming room of sorts. If you play by the rules all is fair.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19295190 - 12/18/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And that's how I play the game :super:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Hobozen]
    #19296421 - 12/19/13 03:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Then don't complain about "indirect".  It's part of the play.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Hobozen]
    #19296435 - 12/19/13 03:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19296618 - 12/19/13 05:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Funny how I defined what I meant by illusion with the very post where you believe I shrugged off your question.
If you read carefully you will see what I mean by illusion. I admit to being abstract with the concept, forgive me.

And you be think by saying you live in your own reality tunnel is attacking you personally,  if it was I would be banned, trust me. We all see the world through the fog of our perceptions and electrical signals in our OWN brains, the nervous system itself, your own unique everything.

All apologies if you were offended but no harm meant brethren.

Love is an illusion when it is conditional, when one of conditions are not met, love fades. Sometimes love creates illusions. Ignoring certain information, imposing our own. This applies both ways. Most of the way we view the world is an illusion, created by our nervous system. Your nervous system therefore controls your reality this way and unless aware enough of one's condition, will react accordingly and the feedback loop begins.
Becoming conscious of one's own subconscious and unconscious behaviors is true human potential for free will.
Family love for the most part is the closest to unconditional, although, that too has its conditions.

Ime, and please this has nothing to do with enlightenment, true unconditional love for ones self is possible, if ever realized the illusions will flee from your ecstasy. That is freedom, little else.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19296688 - 12/19/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

hTx said:
just is a four letter love word.




See what I mean? It means absolutely nothing.



(; 

So nihilistic!

Lol just playing. But yeah, people put so much into it and I think because as a definition, to care and have compassion, empathy, sympathy and genuine "like" for another is an ideal, a utopia that we strive for knowing it's importance, but due to our own subjectivity and the rather primitive brutal conditions on our planet for a majority of humans, our primitive brains even, we cannot accomplish this very easily..but we try, and we fill in the blanks and sometimes what we wrote is erased and our ideal is crushed.
"Love" is likely a smell, a pheromone or something according to "science".
Something sensed saying "safety", yet also potentially much more.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19296753 - 12/19/13 06:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
however if two people fall in love, it seems always conditional, thus an illusion.




hTx says: Love is an illusion because it's conditional.

We've struck ideological bedrock here. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: fireworks_god]
    #19296835 - 12/19/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, maybe.

:p

Was making an observation, say two people fall in love blah blah, one loses his job, changes his spiritual beliefs, or whatever and all of a sudden, "love" falls apart. Beyond that, even your state of consciousness (not yours specifically, people in general) is like this as well. Dependent upon certain conditions, people, success or lack thereof, money and events beyond ones control.

An illusion than, obviously, since what was felt changed into something different based on external and sometimes internal events. I not only believe but experience something unconditional, but only sometimes will slip, and feel a little ashamed for doing so, but also it's kind of funny. Seems like so many are so worried about some image they think they are putting on, yet a lot of the time... "That's not me!"


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19296896 - 12/19/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Was making an observation, say two people fall in love blah blah, one loses his job, changes his spiritual beliefs, or whatever and all of a sudden, "love" falls apart. Beyond that, even your state of consciousness (not yours specifically, people in general) is like this as well. Dependent upon certain conditions, people, success or lack thereof, money and events beyond ones control.




Yes, definitely, I enjoy the picture you're painting here of the changing state of consciousness in relation to these internal and external factors, be they influenceable or not. Consciousness certainly knows its cycles. I like to look at its evolving point of equilibrium within its undergoing these changes.

Quote:


An illusion than, obviously, since what was felt changed into something different based on external and sometimes internal events.




I think this part of your point of view in particular prompted my smirking. I don't see how the fact that a phenomenon changes thereby implies that it was illusory.
As far as I know, impermanence pervades all phenomena, but this doesn't make them less real.

Quote:


I not only believe but experience something unconditional, but only sometimes will slip, and feel a little ashamed for doing so, but also it's kind of funny. Seems like so many are so worried about some image they think they are putting on, yet a lot of the time... "That's not me!"




Definitely. That which we choose to identify ourselves with can be both extremely limited and limiting.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: fireworks_god]
    #19296925 - 12/19/13 07:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I see your point with regards to the illusion conclusion and yeah, I mean really who am I to say what's real and not real, just because it changes based upon certain conditions..it's probably all part of the process towards self-actualization, unconditional states of consciousness and the like, just as real yet fragile real, transitory.


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19296955 - 12/19/13 07:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I mean really who am I to say what's real and not real

You're hTx.  What did I win?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19296975 - 12/19/13 07:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A smile


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19296990 - 12/19/13 08:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
I see your point with regards to the illusion conclusion and yeah, I mean really who am I to say what's real and not real, just because it changes based upon certain conditions..




Sounds like the name of an episode of The Big Bang Theory. :grin:

Quote:


it's probably all part of the process towards self-actualization, unconditional states of consciousness and the like, just as real yet fragile real, transitory.




I've found that one of the interesting things about love is the process of personal development that comes with sorting out how one's mind functions in respect to it. I think this relates to what you're referring to regarding self-actualization and unconditional states of consciousness.

Sometimes we just have to revel in the tug-of-war that results from the interplay of the various structures of our nervous system and the chemical and mechanical exertions the rest of the body has on it, like you were mentioning earlier with this: "I not only believe but experience something unconditional, but only sometimes will slip, and feel a little ashamed for doing so, but also it's kind of funny. ". There's a lot of loci of control nestled within us, vying for influence, and synchronizing them and finding that sweet spot of higher function and maintaining it doesn't usually come so easy. :hehehe:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19297103 - 12/19/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then don't complain about "indirect".  It's part of the play.




And me calling someone out for what I see as grubby play is my form of play.



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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Hobozen]
    #19297194 - 12/19/13 09:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And I'm calling you out for whining that it's grubby. :haha:


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19297228 - 12/19/13 09:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Just cuz you think it's whining doesn't make it so :snub:


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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
    #19297578 - 12/19/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Finally, some actual discussions about actual thoughts and concepts! :thumbup:

Quote:

hTx said:
Funny how I defined what I meant by illusion with the very post where you believe I shrugged off your question.
If you read carefully you will see what I mean by illusion. I admit to being abstract with the concept, forgive me.

And you be think by saying you live in your own reality tunnel is attacking you personally,  if it was I would be banned, trust me. We all see the world through the fog of our perceptions and electrical signals in our OWN brains, the nervous system itself, your own unique everything.

All apologies if you were offended but no harm meant brethren.

Love is an illusion when it is conditional, when one of conditions are not met, love fades. Sometimes love creates illusions. Ignoring certain information, imposing our own. This applies both ways. Most of the way we view the world is an illusion, created by our nervous system. Your nervous system therefore controls your reality this way and unless aware enough of one's condition, will react accordingly and the feedback loop begins.
Becoming conscious of one's own subconscious and unconscious behaviors is true human potential for free will.
Family love for the most part is the closest to unconditional, although, that too has its conditions.

Ime, and please this has nothing to do with enlightenment, true unconditional love for ones self is possible, if ever realized the illusions will flee from your ecstasy. That is freedom, little else.




Well thank you for telling me to "figure it out yourself" after three separate requests to do it :rolleyes: that is funny! Well it takes good character to admit to have been mistaken and I respect that. No actual offence has been taken, I was just going for the semi humorous overkill argument, so I might have seemed more shocked with you than I in actuality was. Let's put that behind us now.   

I agree that everyone has their own perception and their own unique experience of reality. That however, does not imply inferiority in relation to anyone or mean anything in particular either, as for example, your perception of 'love being an illusion' is not beyond that said "tunnel" principle- it your own experience and your own perception.

While I agree that love that is overly tied to conditions is not as refined as love as a condition itself is, I find it difficult to agree that illusions are created by the CNS central nervous system). That is why I asked you to define illusion. I needed to know wether it's the biological kind of illusion (created by various physical conditions affecting the CNS) or the so called philosophical kind of illusion. And I'm sorry to say google defined illusion the biological way.   

But when talking about philosophical illusions- there is an whole array of opinions on what constitutes an illusion. When does a perception become an illusion? Where is that fine line? In your own case (as an example) it would seem that that which is ruled by conditions is an illusion. That is to say that real perception is that which has no condition, which is everlasting as it does not depend on them to assume certain shapes.

This is not a new idea, the unconditional has been a theme of philosophy both in the east and the west. However, I think it is a part of an eternity complex. The logic lies in  the ideology that if all bad things arise from certain conditions and that good things are only so temporarily because of the very same fleeting conditions- the only true and pure thing would be something without condition, thus it would also last forever and prevail anything. Therefore all other experience in an illusion, in other words "false" or "not real".

However I challenge such a notion. fireworks_god has already put it very nicely. Merely because something in impermanent doesn't make it any less real. It is merely a process. Philosophical or experiential eternity may lurk somewhere out there in a very exotic form, but I am almost certain than impermanence pervades within it, creating a sort of paradoxical unity. Love is an experience. And in my own opinion, we should not reject things that are impermanent, neither should we be slaves to the pursuit of eternity. In essence, nothing is an illusion. Everything is a valid experience.

In my own vocabulary, a philosophical illusion is a mental construct consisting of thoughts, beliefs and (most often) habits that the individual is either aware, (but usually) semi-aware or not aware of. These constructs are at fault for putting the overall consciousness in a state of confusion or other negative and unbalanced states. These states result in behaviour that leads to experiences ranging from unsatisfactory to full of suffering for oneself and/or others.

So therefore I think you can understand when I say that I disagree with your initial statement (Love is an Illusion). However do agree that one can have illusions concerning love, which makes it tainted and unstable.

That's how I would put it. Don't think it's right, but if you get it through your own mind then thats all that matters :thumbup:


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."


Edited by MotherNaturesSon (12/19/13 11:20 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Hobozen]
    #19298356 - 12/19/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
Just cuz you think it's whining doesn't make it so :snub:





Love that avatar.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
    #19299582 - 12/19/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Everything could be said to be an illusion but if this were the case love would be no less an illusion. Therefore we must define what is real to make love unreal but it seems to end up being a false analogy. And a mess.

I think the reality may be that everything is appropriate and 'real' in it's own context.

Romantic love is really romantic love. Appreciation for toilet paper really is appreciation for toilet paper. Within those analogies I do not mean to examine the dignity of either. Or, as one of my redneck friends likes to say "It is what it is". Often amended with "It ain't what it ain't", which is apparently not just the truth, but funny.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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