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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿



Registered: 05/21/09
Posts: 1,037
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
#19288568 - 12/17/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why thank you for taking your time to impose your superior knowledge of my future behaviour, however, I am frankly disinterested in more of your sophistry 
And if you can't define one of the core concepts of your own argument, then your words reach little beyond just that, imo
I'm not going to define illusion because I don't believe in illusions or truth and their place in the whole enlightenment fetish. 
I humbly (yeah right ) stick to genuineness and self-deceit
--------------------
Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII: "Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions." "So you believe in intensions?" "No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
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hTx
(:


Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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you can be genuine and still live in an illusion, take the movie the Truman show for example. I don't know what sophistry your speaking of your just crying over a definition, fucking Google it.
define real and what isn't but appears to be is an illusion.
herpderp
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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hTx
(:


Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
#19288655 - 12/17/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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and your the only one with the enlightenment fetish since your the only one talking about it.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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hTx
(:


Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
#19288712 - 12/17/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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its factual actually that your perception.is an illusion, are you claiming objective reality?
you live in a tunnel, shaped by how you view the world and yourself, and it is unique.
and it is yours.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
#19288859 - 12/17/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Ask yourself this. Were it not for the sex and physical attraction would you ever share your life with any woman on the levels we do? If you are honest with your answer you'll wonder where the love enters into the equation.
If you're like me you'll maintain your own life and then really like some women enough to be good friends. Course I'm old. 
I often think about this very thing... They are obvious factors in seeking out a woman and I pay close attention to it, watch myself and don't let myself get involved with women for such basal reasons anymore.
A large handful of my friends are in relationships in which they are blatantly unhappy and have absolutely no logical reason to still be with that person other than sex... It's painful to watch. Then there are also my friends whom subject themselves to relationships and all their chains just to get laid... I really don't understand it anymore.
As I am getting older, I'm finding a lot more value in the aspects of relationships that deal with communication and empathy. Which if a strong and genuine romantic connection is built, equates to far better sex any how...
Quite a few friends of mine have been perturbed by my rejection of a couple beautiful women as of recent, even speculating behind my back like a gaggle of washed up gossiping house wives that I have some latent homosexuality. 
Pretending that I can build a meaningful relationship with a pretty woman so I can stick my penis in her, despite her not being on the same page emotionally and intellectually is not only downright foolish, but cruel and damaging to that person in the long run.
I find a lot of peace and beauty in my aloneness these days and am in no big hurry to bring a woman into my life who would disrupt that.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿



Registered: 05/21/09
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx] 1
#19289647 - 12/17/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: you can be genuine and still live in an illusion, take the movie the Truman show for example. I don't know what sophistry your speaking of your just crying over a definition, fucking Google it.
define real and what isn't but appears to be is an illusion.
herpderp
Quote:
hTx said: and your the only one with the enlightenment fetish since your the only one talking about it.
Quote:
hTx said: its factual actually that your perception.is an illusion, are you claiming objective reality?
you live in a tunnel, shaped by how you view the world and yourself, and it is unique.
and it is yours.

You needed three wholly separate posts to lash out like that?
Need I remind you of this?
Quote:
hTx said: [...]Rudeness seeks to rile up the anger in another, we begin acting on that emotion, instead of seeking progress, we seek to "win".
[...]
If we react to rudeness in kindness we may inspire kindness. If we react to kindness in rudeness we may inspire rudeness.
I am trying to become more kind in every interaction, especially towards rudeness. This is something I work on everyday...
You got a rating 5 for this a while back. Well it looks like you weren't working on this today And before you go bananas- yes I was being a little rude. But that's because I'm genuinely tired of reading these know-it-all enlightenment textual masturbations. People like you present a moot point and then do whatever possible to defend it, including dancing around constructive questioning and criticism with sophistic nonsense (that is to say "without actually saying anything"), because obviously your opinion of everything is simply flawless and you are enlightened. You hTx are the one to say what is and isn't an illusion, especially since love and illusion aren't ambiguous concepts at all in the world of who-wants-to-be-enlightened?
Riiiiight...
I'm mentioning an enlightenment fetish in relation to your behaviour around other people and how you respond to them questioning your most esteemed opinion.
Anyways, you want to do this? Alright, we will do this 
So let me get this straight; you're going to base an argument concerning the relationship between genuineness and illusion on a movie you saw on television, without having as much as properly defined what illusion means in the context of the topic at hand? Well of course, the definition is completely irrelevant right? I mean who cares.
Right then. You wanna use the google definition? Google says: "An illusion is an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience."
So basically what you were saying was that "Love is an instance of a wrong and misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience" Is that correct?
Funny thing is, you're saying something as if your statement was self-explanatory. Which it isn't. Even after you (hardly) clarified the definition of the word that you equalled love to via google, you haven't made much more of a point than you did back with the "Love is an illusion" bit. So unless you care to expand and explain- you're neither talking philosophy, sociology or psychology, you're simply talking sophistry, which again, means that you have said exactly NOTHING (since you said you don't know what sophistry I'm referring to)
Saying things like "[insert touchy, personal and seemingly well-established topic here] is an illusion" is a sophistic stunt wannabe philosophers and enlightenment enthusiasts use all the time to seem like they have the balls to see past what other so foolishly have committed themselves to. That way, they indirectly present themselves as being deep. Lucky keepers of this rare bit of knowledge and so detached from the 'mainstream' perception.
It's like philohipsters..... Love is an illusion, the self is an illusion, life is an illusion, feelings are an illusion, other people are an illusion, illusions are an illusion!
And please, I ask you to leave my reality alone. I don't want you putting little "I'm recycling opinions of actual great thinkers" stickers on it. Such as "objective reality" (Gottlob Frege - Objectivism). It's freaky! Your very mistake is thinking everyone around you are having the same experiences and opinions (that are illusions), whilst yours are different and therefore somehow more potent and refined. But my reality, is simply put, my reality and it's none of your business to go ahead and define it for me. It's simply unsatisfactory and unethical on a wholly different level than the mere impoliteness I was displaying (albeit after three separate failed attempts to get an answer from you when you so actively answered everyone who agreed with you) I'm also disinterested in how you believe your own opinion of reality applies to me, so keep the 'you live in a tunnel' act too.
In fact, I did not care to discuss wether love actually was or wasn't a so called 'illusion'. I merely wanted you to explain your (controversial) position, starting by pointing out what the word illusion means in your vocabulary in this particular instance so we could avoid the nasty phenomena of "but the way I understand illusion is a little different from what the ordinary definition of illusion is" in the future. Because this framework of miscommunication tends to happen a lot in these kind of discussions. 
But sadly we can't seem to get past that since you refuse to answer me. Why? You don't have to answer. You obviously just want to be enlightened and teach us of what is and is not a faulty interpretation of any given subject as long as nobody questions you. Typical 21st century enlightenment if you ask me 
Getting us nowhere, it is... (imo)
Well whatever, just forget it then.
--------------------
Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII: "Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions." "So you believe in intensions?" "No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
Edited by MotherNaturesSon (12/17/13 05:32 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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In the eight+ years I've been here it's usually the ones that lash out the most that make these "we need to all act better around each other" posts. They are the ones usually getting warned and banned but spend all their time pointing fingers at other posters to boot.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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hTx
(:


Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
#19293638 - 12/18/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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well this has been a fine example of how many different perceptions about a single event can happen, I've been rather light hearted throughout this topic. I suppose your right, saying love is an illusion isn't saying much not trying make excuses but im on a mobile and haven't had a chance to elaborate.
just because I said fucking Google it doesn't mean I'm not beimg kind, either.
your showing obvious emotional bias, and somebody seems a lil touchy about their reality tunnel hmmm? (;
you admotted to being rude. if you got rid of your own enlightenment fetish you'd know what OP was truly about. o well
hope you get to feeling better buddy, whatever it is.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿



Registered: 05/21/09
Posts: 1,037
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
#19293854 - 12/18/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: well this has been a fine example of how many different perceptions about a single event can happen, I've been rather light hearted throughout this topic. I suppose your right, saying love is an illusion isn't saying much not trying make excuses but im on a mobile and haven't had a chance to elaborate.
just because I said fucking Google it doesn't mean I'm not beimg kind, either.
your showing obvious emotional bias, and somebody seems a lil touchy about their reality tunnel hmmm? (;
you admotted to being rude. if you got rid of your own enlightenment fetish you'd know what OP was truly about. o well
hope you get to feeling better buddy, whatever it is.
Look, I'm completely disinterested in your attempt to attack me personally, but let me give you a humbling lesson here.
Need I remind you that this is the PS&P forum? The description of this section in the message board goes as following:
"This debate-oriented forum is for the discussion of philosophical ideas that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning [...] Personal attacks will not be tolerated, though critical analysis of the ideas presented is encouraged."
See the part that says 'ideas that are backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning.' ??
Well, here's you saying
Quote:
hTx said: I suppose your right, saying love is an illusion isn't saying much not trying make excuses but im on a mobile and haven't had a chance to elaborate.
Dude. You're 5 pages in here. No time to elaborate? You should have elaborated in your first post and that was all that I was trying to make you do in the first place. I asked you 3 separate times.
Quote:
MotherNaturesSon said:

That's a weird logic ya got there
You mean to say that if an experience arises from a set of signals in reaction to certain stimuli- that that is an illusion? 
I think you need to define your definition of illusion a little better, because the way I got that just now- it's way too loose and superficial, imo.
I'm not here to discuss what love is, because I have no idea. I'm just going with it 
But I'm interested in the 'illusion' part 
Quote:
MotherNaturesSon said: Will you please start by defining the word "illusion" as you use it in this discussion's context? 
Quote:
MotherNaturesSon said: Still waiting on that definition for illusion...

Or are you reluctant to answer me because you know that all your neat sophistry is held together by the ambiguousness of said concept? 
Instead I got a plain and know-it-all NO
Quote:
hTx said: (NO,) you will just ignore certain information impose your own and define it yourself anyways.

nomsayin.
Followed by sophistry and sleights on how narrow my understanding is compared to your refined opinion of existence and how what you know is "factual".
Quote:
hTx said: I don't know what sophistry your speaking of your just crying over a definition, fucking Google it.
herpderp
its factual actually that your perception.is an illusion [...]
you live in a tunnel [...]
Which brings me to the second half of the description of this forum. "Personal attacks will not be tolerated, though critical analysis of the ideas presented is encouraged." Your personal oriented behaviour is not going to be tolerated, so I suggest you cool it before you cross that fine line, because I merely presented critical analysis to the table, which is encouraged.
Not only have you failed to present a philosophical idea that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic or reasoning (even five pages in, even after you are directly asked to elaborate on an aspect of your statement), you have responded to critical analysis of your statement with (subtle) personal sleights and snubness.
THIS CONSISTENTLY PROVES YOU HAVE BROKEN EVERYTHING PS&P STANDS FOR.
Where I a mod- I would consider issuing a warning.
But since I am not I'm just going leave that decision to someone responsible and bid you good day.

PS. The last bit of the PS&P forum description says this: "If you wish to express your ideas in a less critical environment, consider visiting our Spirituality & Mysticism forum."
--------------------
Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII: "Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions." "So you believe in intensions?" "No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: hTx]
#19294196 - 12/18/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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WTF are you talking about?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿



Registered: 05/21/09
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Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
#19294239 - 12/18/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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shush you!
don't jinx the moment
________________________________
EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the Re: hTx on your post just ignore this post
Edited by MotherNaturesSon (12/18/13 05:17 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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It's very easy to ignore what you say. 
Just kidding (sort of) 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Hobozen

Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Quote:
MotherNaturesSon said: Which brings me to the second half of the description of this forum. "Personal attacks will not be tolerated, though critical analysis of the ideas presented is encouraged." Your personal oriented behaviour is not going to be tolerated, so I suggest you cool it before you cross that fine line, because I merely presented critical analysis to the table, which is encouraged.
I agree with your arguments up until here. When you respond with "I'm genuinely tired of reading these know-it-all enlightenment textual masturbations", it kind of irks me that you would go so far as to accuse the other party with "personal oriented behavior" just because they have been a little more direct. You're still making indirect personalisms here (how can masturbations be know-it-all), which isn't against the rules sure, but I do gotta call you out on this because of my own gut issues.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Hobozen]
#19294896 - 12/18/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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This here place is a gaming room of sorts. If you play by the rules all is fair.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Hobozen

Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Icelander]
#19295190 - 12/18/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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And that's how I play the game
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Hobozen]
#19296421 - 12/19/13 03:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Then don't complain about "indirect". It's part of the play.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Love is an Illusion [Re: Hobozen]
#19296435 - 12/19/13 03:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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hTx
(:


Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Funny how I defined what I meant by illusion with the very post where you believe I shrugged off your question. If you read carefully you will see what I mean by illusion. I admit to being abstract with the concept, forgive me.
And you be think by saying you live in your own reality tunnel is attacking you personally, if it was I would be banned, trust me. We all see the world through the fog of our perceptions and electrical signals in our OWN brains, the nervous system itself, your own unique everything.
All apologies if you were offended but no harm meant brethren.
Love is an illusion when it is conditional, when one of conditions are not met, love fades. Sometimes love creates illusions. Ignoring certain information, imposing our own. This applies both ways. Most of the way we view the world is an illusion, created by our nervous system. Your nervous system therefore controls your reality this way and unless aware enough of one's condition, will react accordingly and the feedback loop begins. Becoming conscious of one's own subconscious and unconscious behaviors is true human potential for free will. Family love for the most part is the closest to unconditional, although, that too has its conditions.
Ime, and please this has nothing to do with enlightenment, true unconditional love for ones self is possible, if ever realized the illusions will flee from your ecstasy. That is freedom, little else.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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hTx
(:


Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
hTx said: just is a four letter love word.
See what I mean? It means absolutely nothing.
(;
So nihilistic!
Lol just playing. But yeah, people put so much into it and I think because as a definition, to care and have compassion, empathy, sympathy and genuine "like" for another is an ideal, a utopia that we strive for knowing it's importance, but due to our own subjectivity and the rather primitive brutal conditions on our planet for a majority of humans, our primitive brains even, we cannot accomplish this very easily..but we try, and we fill in the blanks and sometimes what we wrote is erased and our ideal is crushed. "Love" is likely a smell, a pheromone or something according to "science". Something sensed saying "safety", yet also potentially much more.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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