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Mad Season
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Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19279483 - 12/15/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Crystal G said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
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Crystal G said: And even though I don't have children, I can learn from my own childhood and what my parents' taught me, how to do things differently.
clearly you cant since you've gone the path of the drug addicted criminal
That's the whole fucking point. That's the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT as to why hitting children doesn't work, have you not been fucking listening this entire time or what?!??!? Are you going to keep asking me the same dumb questions again?
That's YOU! Seriously some kids are very sensitive nervous wrecks who get very worked up over anything that's happened to them.
As said 100 times: ABUSE ISN'T DISCIPLINE.
If you're excessively hitting your child or even just saying he's stupid. Any form of physical or mental abuse is bad. But a PROPER discipline would do nothing but benefit a kid. Just because you were abused and scarred doesn't mean every kid will be the same. Some kids need to know they can't walk all over us.
Because hugging sends that message. As said before. Some kids aren't insecure wrecks who NEED attention. That's why you teach then independence. Some kids just think they can get anything they want if they're bratty enough.
Edited by Mad Season (12/15/13 01:53 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Juicin]
#19279492 - 12/15/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Juicin said: Oppositional defiance disorder is made up dude, even as a teenager as soon as those words left my shrinks mouth I knew I would never come back. How the fuck do you think they determine if you have ODD? They fucking guess
no need to guess, you just questioned authority, therefor you have ODD, ADD and ADHD, lets dope you up to make you more compliant
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
Mad Season said: As said 100 times: ABUSE ISN'T DISCIPLINE.
and discipline, even corporal punishment isnt abuse
abuse is abuse
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

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Re: Hitting children [Re: Juicin]
#19279507 - 12/15/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Juicin said: Oppositional defiance disorder is made up dude, even as a teenager as soon as those words left my shrinks mouth I knew I would never come back. How the fuck do you think they determine if you have ODD? They fucking guess
If your kid is doing that shit you're just a bad parent or your kid is too independent to be accepting the amount of control you want.
Wasn't exactly my kid, but this kid was BAD and her mom said she was diagnosed as AD/HD and ODD. By 4 years old. Started to grow out of it with more structure, discipline, and attention. I think she is doing better now that her mom is more focused on being a parent.
I didn't think teenagers are diagnosed with ODD? Only younger kids, and as they get older it progresses to some sort of "criminal conduct disorder" or some shit. I agree with you that a lot of the disorders and diagnosis' are made up/overblown/natural human behavior.
I would really like to know what people would do in this situation though, short of not letting it occur in the first place.
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Prisoner#1 said:
can we ask for the control group, can we ask for the video footage of these researchers following these kids around (creepy) so we can see that it was the spanking and not a parent that neglected their kids, or one that was constantly unleashing a verbal assault on them, telling them they're worthless and will never amount to anything
Did you read the study? It took over 4 decades of observation. They used cross-sectional and longitudinal methods, which is different from case-control studies in the sense that it's basically a research method that observes a population under specific periods of time, for long periods of time.
And the problem with spanking, is that most adults don't spank children in the proper calm and guided way. If you spank the proper way that's one thing. But most parents spank their children out of anger and out of impatience, which implants fear into the child's psyche, and brings forth an entirely different element than spanking for discipline
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oh, so more likely... like the way pot is more likely to cause mental illness in those that already suffer from mental illness or have certain risk factors for mental illness such as shitty, abusive parents and tiger moms
Drugs ARE more likely to induce mental illness in people who have a genetically predisposition to having them, yes. The studies are not false or faulty on that one.
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so in conclusion, we see that mental illness can crop up in anyone with certain risk factors, that researchers against spanking will skew results by asking loaded questions of criminals and mentally ill people and that some people wont delve deeper on a subject because some group did a study
No. It was a 4-decade study which means that they probably studied children who were spanked and children who were not spanked as young children, and studied them as they grew older. This minimizes any "skewing" by asking people who were already criminal or mentally disturbed to begin with. The whole purpose of scientific studies is to decrease faults such as this.
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Juicin
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/13
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They will diagnose you with whatever gets them payed. I consider the whole field bullshit. I'm not aware of their standards, but ironically I also got the ADHD diagnosis. That they had a test for at least. Just sitting there and pressing a button when given a specific prompt on a screen. But again ridiculous, so easy to manipulate. I agreed to go in an attempt to get adderall but the whole process was getting out of control when she said the shit about ODD and she wanted more sessions. So I just stopped
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Prisoner#1
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MrBlueYoMind said: I'm wondering how many parents are posting in this thread.
I'm imagining a scenario where a 4 year old child with ODD says something snarky to their parent for not getting what they want. The parent sends them to their room, and they don't listen. So the parent takes them by the arm to take them to the room and then the kid drops their weight.
The parent picks the kid up and now the kid starts squirming around, elbowing the parent in the eye in the process. The kid is screaming at the top of its lungs, as you try to drag them to their room to put them in "time-out" for the original back-talking. As you pass by the tv stand he kicks it real hard and knocks the TV over and breaks it.
What are you going to do? I hear a lot of hypothetical parenting going on, so have at it. This scenario is 100% realistic BTW if you've ever known anyone who has a child with ODD.
I have 2 kids. I've seen this sort of behavior with parents that are afraid to discipline their kids past telling them to stand in a corner, the fear that parents have of agencies like child protective services is amazing. one woman I spoke with recently has 4 kids, one of whom has been diagnosed with ODD, he's been in an institution since he was 5... think that's helping him? why is he there? because she's had CPS in her life since he was around 3 and she's terrified of busting his ass because she'll lose all of her kids to foster care, another pitfall for children that often subjects them to far worse abuses than a spanking.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19279554 - 12/15/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
can we ask for the control group, can we ask for the video footage of these researchers following these kids around (creepy) so we can see that it was the spanking and not a parent that neglected their kids, or one that was constantly unleashing a verbal assault on them, telling them they're worthless and will never amount to anything
Did you read the study? It took over 4 decades of observation. They used cross-sectional and longitudinal methods, which is different from case-control studies in the sense that it's basically a research method that observes a population under specific periods of time, for long periods of time.
And the problem with spanking, is that most adults don't spank children in the proper calm and guided way. If you spank the proper way that's one thing. But most parents spank their children out of anger and out of impatience, which implants fear into the child's psyche, and brings forth an entirely different element than spanking for discipline
most adults? care to show us that study
now here you are advocating spanking as long as it's carried out in the proper way but you make the assumption that most adults arent capable of rational thought when it comes to spanking their kids and as of yet you've not defined what corporal punishment is while condemning it previously
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oh, so more likely... like the way pot is more likely to cause mental illness in those that already suffer from mental illness or have certain risk factors for mental illness such as shitty, abusive parents and tiger moms
Drugs ARE more likely to induce mental illness in people who have a genetically predisposition to having them, yes. The studies are not false or faulty on that one.
except how do we actually determine it was the drugs that triggered it since we can use each individual for the same research of with/without
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so in conclusion, we see that mental illness can crop up in anyone with certain risk factors, that researchers against spanking will skew results by asking loaded questions of criminals and mentally ill people and that some people wont delve deeper on a subject because some group did a study
No. It was a 4-decade study which means that they probably studied children who were spanked and children who were not spanked as young children, and studied them as they grew older. This minimizes any "skewing" by asking people who were already criminal or mentally disturbed to begin with. The whole purpose of scientific studies is to decrease faults such as this.
probably?
once more, post it all up here, dont give us your speculation on how it was conducted
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Juicin]
#19279566 - 12/15/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Juicin said: They will diagnose you with whatever gets them payed. I consider the whole field bullshit. I'm not aware of their standards, but ironically I also got the ADHD diagnosis. That they had a test for at least. Just sitting there and pressing a button when given a specific prompt on a screen. But again ridiculous, so easy to manipulate. I agreed to go in an attempt to get adderall but the whole process was getting out of control when she said the shit about ODD and she wanted more sessions. So I just stopped
psychology is a pseudo science
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Mad Season said: That's YOU! Seriously some kids are very sensitive nervous wrecks who get very worked up over anything that's happened to them.
So then, since you can't tell whether your own kid might be one of those who end up growing up dysfunctional from being hit, why on earth would you risk it?
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Crystal G



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Pris, it's pretty logical to assume how they conducted the study. If you research the study, you find that they used cross-sectional and longitudinal methods over 4 decades of time. This means that they studied subjects over an extensive and long period of time, from childhood to adulthood. They didn't interview people who were already mentally ill or violent and asked them if they had been spanked or not.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19279621 - 12/15/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Crystal G said:
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Mad Season said: That's YOU! Seriously some kids are very sensitive nervous wrecks who get very worked up over anything that's happened to them.
So then, since you can't tell whether your own kid might be one of those who end up growing up dysfunctional from being hit, why on earth would you risk it?
why risk being happy if there's a chance you might not be.
let's all hide under the bed because the boogey man may get us if we dont
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19279623 - 12/15/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Crystal G said: Pris, it's pretty logical to assume how they conducted the study.
herpa derpa derp.
no, it's not, post up how the study was conducted, there's nothing logical in assumption
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Prisoner#1 said:
most adults? care to show us that study
Are you saying you have never ever hit your child out of anger and frustration? If you claim to hit your kids, but also claim you have never hit them out of anger or impatience, you are a liar. Because you are simply human, a human that is driven by emotions.
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Crystal G



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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19279637 - 12/15/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Additionally, parents who hit their 3 year old toddlers are not doing it "out of discipline." They most likely are frustrated and want a quick and easy method to get their kid to shut up.
Reminds me of this mother who used to live in my apartment complex. She was a mother of 4, including a 1 year old baby. I was outside of her apartment and the baby was making a little bit of noise. The mother said, "Shut up, do you want me to give you Benadryl again?"
So all the baby wanted to do was play, and she was drugging it with Benadryl so it wouldn't disturb her daily activities. Every time I saw her she was on the couch watching TV or on the internet, not paying attention at all to her children. I pay more attention to my dog than she does her kids. This is the type of woman that I believe also spanks her kids.
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Mad Season
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19279639 - 12/15/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
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Mad Season said: That's YOU! Seriously some kids are very sensitive nervous wrecks who get very worked up over anything that's happened to them.
So then, since you can't tell whether your own kid might be one of those who end up growing up dysfunctional from being hit, why on earth would you risk it?
Because you raise them better than that. No kid should be insecure. Especially when young because that's when they're basically owned by their parents. If they're insecure it has a lot to do with the parents as well the child. As said 101 times now. Abuse would cause insecurities. Discipline doesn't. With the right discipline they won't ever feel like that. They'll actually genuinely feel bad for others.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19279654 - 12/15/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Crystal G said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
most adults? care to show us that study
Are you saying you have never ever hit your child out of anger and frustration?
I've never once hit my kids in anger or frustration, I can give you a list of people that have known me for many years that can tell you that I dont get angry, one who I worked with for 5 years and in that time he provoked me daily to try and make me lose my temper. it never happened because I see things much differently than you apparently, for instance, if I'm angry, I dont hit my kids at all. I wont have to, at that point, they scramble for their room
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If you claim to hit your kids, but also claim you have never hit them out of anger or impatience, you are a liar. Because you are simply human, a human that is driven by emotions.
you clearly are basing shit on yourself, we are not all like you, even in the rare instances that I do get angry, I do take a step back from the situation to assess what my options are. not everyone is driven by emotion
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Set
candy colored clown


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 6,383
Loc: right near da beach
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: I'm imagining a scenario where a 4 year old child with ODD says something snarky to their parent for not getting what they want. The parent sends them to their room, and they don't listen. So the parent takes them by the arm to take them to the room and then the kid drops their weight.
The parent picks the kid up and now the kid starts squirming around, elbowing the parent in the eye in the process. The kid is screaming at the top of its lungs, as you try to drag them to their room to put them in "time-out" for the original back-talking. As you pass by the tv stand he kicks it real hard and knocks the TV over and breaks it.
What are you going to do? I hear a lot of hypothetical parenting going on, so have at it. This scenario is 100% realistic BTW if you've ever known anyone who has a child with ODD.
Seriously? It depends on the situation, and depends on the child.
Fortunately it isn't possible to summate the complexities of an individual human being in an internet post.
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I'm wondering how many parents are posting in this thread.
"Parents must know how to parent better than non-parents, because parents are parents". Great example of an appeal to authority fallacy.
Please let this be the last logical fallacy in this thread.
--------------------
classic LOVELINE
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Cosmic_Flame
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Set]
#19279677 - 12/15/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dont hit your kids
-------------------- Pull the blinds and change their minds....
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Hitting children [Re: Crystal G]
#19279679 - 12/15/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Crystal G said: Additionally, parents who hit their 3 year old toddlers are not doing it "out of discipline." They most likely are frustrated and want a quick and easy method to get their kid to shut up.
wow... what kind of people do you know or hang out with if this is the case you dont hit kids simply because you want them to shut up... I certainly hope this is something that you're pulling out of your ass because his constitutes unwarranted abuse
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Reminds me of this mother who used to live in my apartment complex. She was a mother of 4, including a 1 year old baby. I was outside of her apartment and the baby was making a little bit of noise. The mother said, "Shut up, do you want me to give you Benadryl again?"
again, this is an issue with the parents, not with corporal punsihment, it's shitty parenting, it's been going on for decades, things such as paragoric were used when I was a kid, lucky for me, my mom didnt drug me to get me to shut up, she spent time with me, it's the same thing I do with my kids and the same thing most parents I know do with theirs. I've only ever known a few people to resort to this kind of shit
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I pay more attention to my dog than she does her kids. This is the type of woman that I believe also spanks her kids.
you believe... do you also believe that everyone that spanks their kids also neglects them or drugs them so they can have a little quiet time?
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