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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
    #19268452 - 12/12/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think you are going to be scrutinized based on your spiritual beliefs as long as you just go with the flow of the ceremony and are respectful. One of my friends who has been to many meetings is one of the most far out crazy spiritual hippies I've ever known, and he gets along fine with all of them.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19268467 - 12/12/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Dude thanks Nicechrisman!!! You're always full of good, encouraging information :hug:.

I'm more worried about general spiritual rejection than rejection from a psychedelic ceremony, since they offer them to the public, but if they're as individualistic and open-minded as they suggest, I think I might have found a good place to start exploring not only entheogens but a truly personalized religious practice (without any golden-standard/ruler of dogma!). :awesome:


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
    #19268474 - 12/12/13 10:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just be ready for a lot of God talk. The thing is though- I think many of us psychedelic travelers have a different idea of God from what the church says.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19268495 - 12/12/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Haha so true that; all of my atheist friends are convinced I'm an atheist too smart to be a Christian, and my Christian friends all think I'm a polluted Xian of some kind based on the fact that I do have some spiritual beliefs (but sorry... the anthropomorphized form is our own projection; there's no "ultimate human" in the sky IMO but again, this is what I want to be exploring).

Again, Nicechrisman and everyone else--thanks so much for your FREAKIN AWESOME REPLIES!!! Very helpful :sun:

He's going to call me at 10 AM :justcantwait:


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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OfflinePiecefillpath247
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
    #19268526 - 12/12/13 10:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm interested in how this goes.


--------------------
"The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance"
-Alan Watts


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Piecefillpath247]
    #19268531 - 12/12/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah I'm a little jealous. I'm sure I could get to a meeting if I really put a lot of effort forward to, but my life is pretty busy, and I just haven't put that energy forward. I'm pretty happy with my personal cactus experimentation, and even that I rarely find the time to do.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
    #19269103 - 12/13/13 01:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

st1llnox said:
http://www.oklevueha.org/Questions___Answers.html

I stumbled upon this organization when I found a meetup listing for a legal peyote ceremony open to the public in my state.

Native American Church... seems like there's been success around the country not being prosecuted for peyote and even marijuana(!!!) due to membership and involvement in/with this church.

I like drugs, and I am interested in spirituality, but frankly this one places SO much emphasis on the legal protection benefit that despite the neater aspects of their spirituality (I mean, how often do churches unambiguously declare everyone unequivocally equal?), this kind of smells like a ritualized excuse to get high.


What are you guys' thoughts? Anyone here a member?


It seems based on a video in a WAY old TPE thread, though, that many who aren't like us at all (know little about drugs or only have used simple highs like heroin and speed) and who aren't necessarily into their spirituality have had life-changing experiences joining their ceremonies.



The white christian men slaughtered and destroyed their culture including their getting high as part of their spirituality. Pretty much all native spiritual traditions involve altering the conciousness and getting high. Your thinking its weird is a result of how complete your training has been.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19269172 - 12/13/13 02:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Good vibes.  I'm jelly. I've always wanted to try a ceremony like this.  Good luck man! I hope it works out and you realize how ridiculous it was to mess around with DXM that much once you get ahold of a real psychedelic.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #19269190 - 12/13/13 02:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't read most of the thread but I have sat in on an NAC ceremony.
I have also sat in on a Huichol ceremony.


NAC is interesting; but you can't generalize the whole church.
Every nation have their own ceremonies, and every Roadman (shaman) within that nation has his own tradition.
So no two ceremonies will ever really be the same.


That being said, I would much prefer attending a half moon circle over a crossfire.
I'm personally not Christian so all the Jesus talk can detract from my own personal experience.


I actually met a member of the NAC today by total coincidence.
I was getting a quote for my companies move to a new office, and the guy giving me the quote happened to be a member. He also did the five year pilgrimage to Wirikuta with the Huichol; which I hope to do some day.
And he did the four year service in the Sun Dance; which I'm not totally sure if I want to do....


I'm going to bring him in on the local charter with the next upcoming ceremony since he has no contacts here.

If you want a word of advice for your first ceremony:
Shut up and listen.
Don't give in to your weakness.
Remain on your knees and hold your bladder.
Divert your focus to the ceremony and it will become easier.
The medicine is there to help you.
Don't be afraid to get well.


Another Shroomerite is actually the one who brought me into the NAC, though I'm not an official member.
If he chooses to speak up, he will have much more knowledge to offer on this subject.


--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #19269849 - 12/13/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Green Arrow, one of my best DXM trips actually planted in me the desire to quit smoking and totally made me think of tobacco in literally a tribal context :lol:. I'm not necessarily going to just try to jump right into peyote or anything, but I think everyone who doesn't have me on ignore is in consensus that I need to properly trip really bad haha. I think this would be an ideal way to do it and glean the spiritual benefit.

Quote:

Your thinking its weird is a result of how complete your training has been.




Man, I didn't even realize how ethnocentric I was being... good point.

Thanks for your thorough reply as well, Caterpillar! I will definitely hold your advice in mind; is the bladder thing in order not to interrupt the ceremony?


I hope there's not too much Jesus stuff. He was clearly real (the Romans nailed tens or hundreds of thousands of people to crosses and there had to be at least one person named "Jesus" who considered himself to be sacrificing himself) but carries practically no spiritual significance to me. I'm really open-minded about others' faiths though for the most part so I'm not worried, plus we're all free to just take the essence of what people are saying..

OMG he's calling tty guys in a bit.  Time to get spiritualized...



--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
    #19270181 - 12/13/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just got off the phone with their leader. They're definitely the real deal and CERTAINLY not a "SWIM" or "It's a water-pipe, not a bong" type of legal ruse. He also said that I can come down and stay with them if I feel called to(!!!) and that they'll make sure I've got food and a place to stay, etc. as long as I need. He also said that if I wanted to relocate for real, they can get me a job and will help me find a place to rent and everything. :zomgzomgzomg:

It seems they're just in their infancy in my region. The leader was talking with me about some of his plans and they sound awesome, including having retreat cabins where people can step out of their lives for as long as they need to if they need to spend some time in nature or out of their daily grind, and he's got the idea of a warehouse where members can make things they don't need available to others and take anything they have a real need for or use for.

I'm going to fast today while I decide if going down there is in order, but I'm already 97% sure I'm going to take them up on the offer.

I have a lot of clothes, both rugged and designer, piled up that I don't need so I'm going to likely contribute a large amount of gently used clothing to help kick start their resource pool for those who have better use for my surplus or are in a time of need.

This is going to be big. I think I already know that I'm going down there, but I'm a hyper and excitable person so I am still going to fast and make sure I'm not being hasty.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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OfflineMescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19270231 - 12/13/13 11:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

st1llnox said:
http://www.oklevueha.org/Questions___Answers.html

I stumbled upon this organization when I found a meetup listing for a legal peyote ceremony open to the public in my state.

Native American Church... seems like there's been success around the country not being prosecuted for peyote and even marijuana(!!!) due to membership and involvement in/with this church.

I like drugs, and I am interested in spirituality, but frankly this one places SO much emphasis on the legal protection benefit that despite the neater aspects of their spirituality (I mean, how often do churches unambiguously declare everyone unequivocally equal?), this kind of smells like a ritualized excuse to get high.


What are you guys' thoughts? Anyone here a member?


It seems based on a video in a WAY old TPE thread, though, that many who aren't like us at all (know little about drugs or only have used simple highs like heroin and speed) and who aren't necessarily into their spirituality have had life-changing experiences joining their ceremonies.



The white christian men slaughtered and destroyed their culture including their getting high as part of their spirituality. Pretty much all native spiritual traditions involve altering the conciousness and getting high. Your thinking its weird is a result of how complete your training has been.




Even with my mothers side being navajo over zealous christian members on the board have gone off on me and a couple other threads that it's an excuse to get high.

Great grandmother was full blood and participated. Lived to be 112.


--------------------
FREE BURKE


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Mescalean]
    #19270274 - 12/13/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Even with my mothers side being navajo over zealous christian members on the board have gone off on me and a couple other threads that it's an excuse to get high.

Great grandmother was full blood and participated. Lived to be 112.





I think it's stupid as fuck anyone cares either way... most of us here get high anyway without needing an excuse :lolsy:

I just didn't want to get involved and take it seriously if this particular group wasn't sincere about the spirituality side of it; using drugs is anyone's right period, regardless of whether they are doing it as part of a religious ceremony.


I'm thinking next Tuesday would be the best day to go down although I'm not sure how long I should plan on staying, or if I should even make a plan.

Since I just decided yesterday that I have to get out of my parents house at any and all costs, starting a life down there might not be a horrible approach to be honest but I'm not going to get ahead of myself here.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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OfflineMescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
    #19270456 - 12/13/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They are sincere about the spiritual side of it. The only mixed feeling I have are like what catiplilar said, I don't believe in christianity so I feel like it would clash with my own spiritual beliefs.

Remember peyote isn't the most "fun" drug sometimes. The purge scares most off.


--------------------
FREE BURKE


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Mescalean]
    #19270477 - 12/13/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

grande fap


--------------------
EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT



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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Mescalean]
    #19270555 - 12/13/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
They are sincere about the spiritual side of it. The only mixed feeling I have are like what catiplilar said, I don't believe in christianity so I feel like it would clash with my own spiritual beliefs.

Remember peyote isn't the most "fun" drug sometimes. The purge scares most off.




I'm betting it's gonna be a long time before I use peyote; I anticipate my first true "trip" being LSD with MusicOfZann when I visit him in a month or so if we can get all our logistics figured out.

Purging after ingesting psychoactives doesn't phase me--I am, after all, the DXM Diva :lolsy:

Mesc, Jesus or God didn't come up once in my talk with their leader and they have zero dogma; no mention of pretty much anything Christian at all in their constitution or whatever on the website.

Man Found Standing, the leader I talked to, also made it clear that I will have no problems from anyone stemming from my mashup religious beliefs or my lack of belief in an anthropomorphized God.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
    #19272318 - 12/13/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ask him if they practice Crossfire or Halfmoon.

Some Charters will do both, some will only do one.
And it really comes down to the Roadman running the ceremony and his own practice.



Halfmoon doesn't have the Christian influence, and is the older tradition.

Crossfire was developed sometime later in Oklahoma by predominantly Kiowa who had converted to Christianity; so it has the Christian influence.



And then sometimes they will have open circles, which is a much more casual ceremony that allows the blending of traditions on members own preferences.


--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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Invisibleshowme
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #19272329 - 12/13/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Holy Shit I am so Excited right now.


--------------------
Imagination is the organ of meaning.


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Invisibleshowme
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: showme]
    #19272335 - 12/13/13 08:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Damnit, it's in Missouri, is that where you are?

Ok nevermind, I just read the subject line. lol. So stoked for you. Not saying I ain't visiting, just might be a little after you.

Peace man, thanks for sharing this!
Exactly what I've been searching for ever since... what... my first trip? haha


--------------------
Imagination is the organ of meaning.


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: showme]
    #19272790 - 12/13/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'll look into that Caterpillar, thanks! :cookiemonster:

Showme, I will likely still be around/part of it when you come if you choose to and feel called to participate.

And yes, I'm in Missouri :awesome:. Funny you aren't, since your name is actually our state motto/slogan/whateverthefuck lol: the "Show Me" state. :lol:


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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