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InvisibleNecroMyce
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19271515 - 12/13/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Nothing was really hard to 'wrap my head around' but there was one big obstacle.

I constantly told myself I couldn't do things because of such-and-such. I told myself I couldn't do agar because I didn't have a good enough SAB or that I couldn't do grain to grain transfers because I didn't have a flow hood.

I finally looked at myself a month or two ago and said 'What the fuck is wrong with you?  You're afraid to do something because of the risk of a little contamination?'  For some reason I had been literally AFRAID of contamination.    I realized how much I limit myself in my day to day life by saying 'I can't do this because of this.'

That was a hard wall to break down. To just accept that contamination may happen and that that's not a reason to not try. 

For some reason, I don't think I'm the only one who's had this 'fear' of doing something because it might fail.

There is nothing about mycology to be afraid of.  Unless you get some super duper killer mold.




i was the same way as well, as long as your sterile, there is nothing to be afraid of in mycology. Be brave and experiment, you can always try again. even with the same jars sometimes.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: CricketMan]
    #19271554 - 12/13/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

INCEDIGRIS said:
TAKE OFF THE FOIL AFTER INOCULATION!

After Inoculation, I re-covered the jars with foil, and left the foil on the jars during incubation. Bad idea.

There was very little Gas Exchange (GE). It took nearly 2.5 weeks to see the start of mycelium. By the time I realized my sin, it was too late. I ended up trashing most of them due to sour smelling substrate.

Fast forward to attempt number 2 - I am seeing mycelium in 5 days :mushroom2:

That is all - remember to take off that foil!




You should take off the foil after inoculation, but I doubt that was related to your problems. It sounds like the syringe had bacteria in it or either your jars weren't sterile because they should have enough air to germinate just fine and though they may stall without GE there should not have been bacterial growth if the jar and innoculant were both clean.


Edited by krypto2000 (12/13/13 04:36 PM)


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19271572 - 12/13/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I had a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that this is not a complicated hobby and I'm the one who makes it complicated.

The Sirens Call of automation drove me to waste money, time, and energy on gadgets, electric devices, and other materials.

Primarily, what a good FC actually means. I have come to understand that a good FC means proper FAE and RH.

It took several really complex, yet poor, setups to realize the simplicity of monotubs and SGFC's is where it's at.


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19271794 - 12/13/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

still totally unsuccessful in growing thus far, but i have done plenty of reading, bought the vids, made tons of plans only to scratch them out and start new ones... wrapped the head around plenty of stuff.  the one i so far had the hardest time getting was the mushroom lifecycle.  it went something like:
"you mean noc'ing with spores is not ideal?  what do you mean a crap shoot?  heirloom tomato seeds reliably give great tomatoes, why spores don't reliably give great tomatoes... i mean mushrooms?  oh, because the seeds are already dikaryotic and genetics are consistent and determined.  spores are monokaryotic?  wait what?  it's not exactly like that either?  what the fuck?!  spoores germinate into hyphae which essentially mate sexually to form mycelium, like pollen and... what?  oh so the mycelium can have a total mishmash of genetic code, the cells each have two nuclei..."  and so on.

read read read, eventually got it, with a few lingering questions.  now i get why isolation is important and why that will give the best results under like circumstances.  i just love this stuff. 
:growshrooms:


--------------------
 
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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19272067 - 12/13/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

awww no success yet? at least u r still trying, and reading.  I spent my entire unemployed summer reading this site, and was failing in june with cakes, and spawning to bulk (with the same brf cakes) by late july.  now I'm working with agar, and even doing some oysters and shiitaki, everything learned from this site!  the more u read, the more u understand, the better ur results!  I wish u luck J J!

me in early june:



me in late july:



Shiitaki plate (minus some transfers):



my first oyster grow!



Thank you Shroomery!!!!!


--------------------
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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19272109 - 12/13/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:





:kaneclap: Nice oysters!



My biggest problem was a buddy I had who was the one who talked me into growing for the first time. Kept giving me advice like "make sure your FC doesn't have too many holes" and G2G is fine in open air and you can G2G jars forever. Really screwed me up at the start. Then I found the shroomery and did a lot of lurking and reading. After I spent some serious time here he came over one day and was like "holy shit, I was never able to grow that many in one tub!"


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19272142 - 12/13/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

thx!!  I was debating whether or not to include that pic cause its in my sig., but it went along with my experience here at shroomery... can't wait to eat them!
i have some clones of that (and other shiitakis) on ur plates as we speak.... :smile:


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Offlinemagickspore
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19272197 - 12/13/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

NOT buying a PC right away. IDC what your excuses are get 1. An 8qt is 30 bucks at Wally World online. Also Craigslist and eBay you can get better deals than that. GET A PC and start agar!


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: magickspore]
    #19272266 - 12/13/13 08:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Nothing was really hard to 'wrap my head around' but there was one big obstacle.

I constantly told myself I couldn't do things because of such-and-such. I told myself I couldn't do agar because I didn't have a good enough SAB or that I couldn't do grain to grain transfers because I didn't have a flow hood.

I finally looked at myself a month or two ago and said 'What the fuck is wrong with you?  You're afraid to do something because of the risk of a little contamination?'  For some reason I had been literally AFRAID of contamination.    I realized how much I limit myself in my day to day life by saying 'I can't do this because of this.'

That was a hard wall to break down. To just accept that contamination may happen and that that's not a reason to not try. 

For some reason, I don't think I'm the only one who's had this 'fear' of doing something because it might fail.

There is nothing about mycology to be afraid of.  Unless you get some super duper killer mold.




I don't think you're alone. I see A LOT of people who don't want to start until they have the best things to use. Same goes for brewing. Everyone needs 1000$ setup to do things people have done with homemade shit for years.

Quote:

sukhavati12 said:
The most difficult thing for me was discovering the proper method to use.

I impulsively took up this hobby after I couldn't find anyone in my area who could provide shrooms. I researched different sites for a few days--they had grow kits and outdated teks using drip shields, coolers, the PMP etc--before I found this website and the PF tek.




Yea, I'm trying to make it easier for people to find the right thing the first time. :shrug: not so easy.


Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Oh, I initially thought I didn't really have trouble with anything or learn much (not that I knew everything, but what I learned seemed easy enough), however I change my opinion. Outdoor growing! I wish I knew about outdoor growing years ago, I can't believe I've been growing for ~7 years and not until this past summer did I try an outdoor grow. Also all this time I had been dumping spent and contaminanted subs into the compost when I could have probably gotten a lot of mushies from them if I'd buried them and tried to fruit outside. If you're trying to get bulk I think indoors is the way to go as far as efficiency, but I love gardening, working outside, and mushrooms growing in your yard just look awesome too.



:thumbup:
out door things really need to be talked about more IMO


Quote:

INCEDIGRIS said:
TAKE OFF THE FOIL AFTER INOCULATION!

After Inoculation, I re-covered the jars with foil, and left the foil on the jars during incubation. Bad idea.

There was very little Gas Exchange (GE). It took nearly 2.5 weeks to see the start of mycelium. By the time I realized my sin, it was too late. I ended up trashing most of them due to sour smelling substrate.

Fast forward to attempt number 2 - I am seeing mycelium in 5 days :mushroom2:

That is all - remember to take off that foil!



:whathesaid: everyone loves to foil their jars for some reason


Quote:

1down5up said:
i'm still a noob, and the hardest thing for me still, is to believe that I can.  I read and read and read and still second guess myself.  As long as you educate yourself, and take advice constructively, just try it and see how it goes.  This hobby takes soooooo long, that it really gives you enough time to fix most mistakes before they turn tragic, and if they turn tragic, learn from it.



It is hard to take the first step but nearly nothing here is out side of the reach of most able bodied persons to do.


Quote:

CaspuuuR said:
Quote:

Sgt. Pepper said:
I originally didn't really understand the process of using grains as spawn. I didn't see the purpose when you could use brf, but after a minuscule amount of reading I understood that brf doesn't work so well in quart jars and it takes forever. If there's one piece of information I could give to noobs, it would be to do your damn research, and skip the pf tek and go to grains and monos immediately.




That was my thing, i was overwhelmed with everything and stuck simple, and now im already doing agar and advanced g2g, taking 2-4 jars and making 4-6monos haha. I couldnt wrap my head around the fact that this is actually really simple procedures, and jumping to rye/wbs/bulk right away is actually not hard/bad thing at all. And totally worth it, just find proper information and do your research and experiment



I think a lot of people see it as a wall of text. I'm thinking about making a picture/diagram and then having links to explain each step in more detail. Spawn and bulk is pretty simple but I do admit I was like WTF am I reading about when I first got into it. I was all confused about ratios/coir/grains/spawning etc...




Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
I had a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that this is not a complicated hobby and I'm the one who makes it complicated.

The Sirens Call of automation drove me to waste money, time, and energy on gadgets, electric devices, and other materials.

Primarily, what a good FC actually means. I have come to understand that a good FC means proper FAE and RH.

It took several really complex, yet poor, setups to realize the simplicity of monotubs and SGFC's is where it's at.



Everyone seems to need to make their own mistakes with a SGFC everyone is afraid of doing work, but in reality it's less work to do it right. You're actually doing more work setting up an automated SGFC than it would take to just make a SGFC. I don't know why misting and fanning are so aversive to new growers :shrug:


Quote:

J. Jack Flash said:
still totally unsuccessful in growing thus far, but i have done plenty of reading, bought the vids, made tons of plans only to scratch them out and start new ones... wrapped the head around plenty of stuff.  the one i so far had the hardest time getting was the mushroom lifecycle.  it went something like:
"you mean noc'ing with spores is not ideal?  what do you mean a crap shoot?  heirloom tomato seeds reliably give great tomatoes, why spores don't reliably give great tomatoes... i mean mushrooms?  oh, because the seeds are already dikaryotic and genetics are consistent and determined.  spores are monokaryotic?  wait what?  it's not exactly like that either?  what the fuck?!  spoores germinate into hyphae which essentially mate sexually to form mycelium, like pollen and... what?  oh so the mycelium can have a total mishmash of genetic code, the cells each have two nuclei..."  and so on.

read read read, eventually got it, with a few lingering questions.  now i get why isolation is important and why that will give the best results under like circumstances.  i just love this stuff. 
:growshrooms:



:thumbup:
+5 shrooms for you

Quote:

magickspore said:
NOT buying a PC right away. IDC what your excuses are get 1. An 8qt is 30 bucks at Wally World online. Also Craigslist and eBay you can get better deals than that. GET A PC and start agar!



Pretty much. I don't hate on the people that want to do some PF cakes for a while though. but seriously a PC is where it is at.


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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19272358 - 12/13/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

the major things i see people do on here over and over is over think shit


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: cronicr]
    #19272377 - 12/13/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
the major things i see people do on here over and over is over think shit



:whathesaid:X10

Quote:


If you were building your own airplane you would make sure every little bolt and washer was perfect. It's flying because of trial and error(evolution) and people with experience have delivered the directions and parts in a good working state so you can fly safely. Obviously there can be improvements made but when you're the one making a airplane from a kit you're probably not in the best position to start tacking on upgrades.

When you don't have your own experience you should find something your gut tells you is trustworthy through your own investigation. Use the people who developed it's experience and let that guide you without throwing in your own gut feelings because they've likely had the same ones and figured out already that that didn't work. Then you'll develop your own experience and be able to branch out and continue the evolution of your craft.

When starting out it's best to follow the tek directions to the T. This will help us with any diagnosis if you run into a problem and need to ask for help on here in your own thread.

Obviously mushrooms are not as dangerous to fail as a failure in an airplane but you're making food that you eat here so please follow directions until you have your own experience to rely on.





Pretty much don't try to turn your SGFC into a space station.


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Offlinemagickspore
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: cronicr]
    #19272416 - 12/13/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
the major things i see people do on here over and over is over think shit




AGREED!!! Follow THE TEK to T!!!

Quote:

Pretty much. I don't hate on the people that want to do some PF cakes for a while though. but seriously a PC is where it is at.




This is more for the person that's been doing the PF tek for 6 mo. And likes the hobby enough to think about investing. At that point. Don't think do. Lol


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OfflineSamhainJ
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: magickspore]
    #19272525 - 12/13/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Probably the fact that back in 03 everyone was fruiting in rubbermaids but with no holes like a sgfc.. it seemed to work well at the time.. but works a hell of alot better with the 1/4" holes drilled in the tubs!!


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OfflineValyr
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: SamhainJ]
    #19272640 - 12/13/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Pasteurization. Fricking pasteurization lol.

I went through a 45lb bag of wbs (with my last 16 jars just noc'd up 2 days ago) with only one flush... And that was on my first try when I did a damn BUCKET TEK!!!.

I just NOW reading this thread found out that outside temp dont mean shit!

Ok so one more quick question and I really hope you guys dont mind but...

I was having such trouble that I baught a induction burner that I can set exact temperature on. Can i set to 160 and just leave for work? Or is there a point above the ninety minutes you want to pasteurize that it becomes bad.


Edited by Valyr (12/13/13 09:54 PM)


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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: Valyr]
    #19272646 - 12/13/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

there's a point where it goes bad, do it when you have the time


--------------------

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I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: Valyr]
    #19272650 - 12/13/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Valyr said:
Pasteurization. Fricking pasteurization lol.

I went through a 45lb bag of wbs (with my last 16 jars just noc'd up 2 days ago) with only one flush... And that was on my first try when I did a damn BUCKET TEK!!!.

I just NOW reading this thread found out that outside temp dont mean shit!

Ok so one more quick question and I really hope you guys dont mind but...

I was having such trouble that I baught a induction burner that I can set exact temperature on. Can i set to 160 and just leave for work? Or is there a point above the ninety minutes you want to pasteurize that it becomes bad.




yea you don't want to pasteurize too long.

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

sgfcchamber said:
If you don't feel like reading the whole post, here is my question summed up:
Is it possible to pasteurize a bulk substrate for too long if the temperature never exceeds 150F or drops below 140F?  Is it okay to hold those temps for, say, 2, 3, 4 or 5 hours and still be left as pasteurized and acceptable to use?




Yes, don't exceed 2 hours.  You want some of the microbes to survive because they help to keep the substrate 'alive' and resistant to molds.

Quote:

sgfcchamber said:
I have recently gotten into cooking via a method called "sous vide" which is where you vacuum seal your food and place it into a hot water bath.  The temperature of the water is precisely controlled to the exact temperature you want your cooked food to be.  So let's say you want a medium rare steak, cooked perfectly to medium rare temperature (145F).  You set the water bath temp to 145F and you place your vacuum sealed steak in the water, and you can leave it there anywhere from 1 to 36 hours.  It comes out cooked perfectly, end-to-end, because you can't overcook it (it can't go above the temp of the water it's placed in) not to mention the flavor & tenderness benefits.





:tongue:  What a horrible way to ruin a steak.  A rare steak should be cooked well on the outside and raw or nearly raw inside.  If it's merrily warmed to the same temperature all the way through, blah.
RR




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OfflineValyr
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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19272706 - 12/13/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Ok so dont leave substrate within proper pasteurization temp ranges for more than 2hrs :smile:. Thanks. Awesome thread bod :smile:

And what tempurature do you think the center should be at before shutting off water to stop the boiling and avoid sterlizing the sub? I know it will still raise some after shutting off the stove. The meat thermometers I baught start reading at 120 is that sufficient?

Or does it matter how long it takes to get to pasteurization temp? We established that we dont want to leave it there too long but say I were to set my temp to that 160 and just let it slow raise to core temp to 140 then start the timer would it matter any? This obviously would take longer than using boiling water.

And one last question and ill stop jacking your post lol. Would it be beneficial to let things germinate for a day or whatnot befoer pasteurizing substrate? Sorta like the soak on wbs.


Edited by Valyr (12/13/13 10:16 PM)


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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: Valyr]
    #19272746 - 12/13/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

People misusing terms like bulk sub and spawn, and casing. They mix em all up and it was hard to get em straight, especially since alot of those were in random threads I read for fun and most of the teks I was reading were just pf variations.


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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: JPDancer]
    #19272904 - 12/13/13 11:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

the hardest part for me was not diving right in, i did my homework for a long time before i started anything and jumped right into grains and agar, unfortunately my grain choice was popcorn and my agar was just brf/water but it got the job done and gave me a good understanding of everything and how it works and by the time my first fruits came i had already done proper dishes which i used to inoculate proper grains with sfd's and not pollyfill, but i followed every tek to the t and never made my own adjustments


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Re: You'll never guess, my question about cube cultivation [Re: newera]
    #19278349 - 12/15/13 09:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Valyr said:
Ok so dont leave substrate within proper pasteurization temp ranges for more than 2hrs :smile:. Thanks. Awesome thread bod :smile:

And what tempurature do you think the center should be at before shutting off water to stop the boiling and avoid sterlizing the sub? I know it will still raise some after shutting off the stove. The meat thermometers I baught start reading at 120 is that sufficient?

Or does it matter how long it takes to get to pasteurization temp? We established that we dont want to leave it there too long but say I were to set my temp to that 160 and just let it slow raise to core temp to 140 then start the timer would it matter any? This obviously would take longer than using boiling water.

And one last question and ill stop jacking your post lol. Would it be beneficial to let things germinate for a day or whatnot befoer pasteurizing substrate? Sorta like the soak on wbs.




I use very hot tap water into pre-chopped coir. The coir breaks apart way easily if you put a knife in on the side. It flakes off in layers. My tap water is always around 120-150F for some reason. I load the hydrated coir/verm into jars and put it into a big pot with water that's already at ~180F My core comes up to 140F in maybe 15-20M usually. The water in my pot stays hot enough and the jars stay above 140F for an hour and I call it a day. You might have to do some experimenting to get it done right though.

You could alternatively leave them in 160F water for hours and hours if you want but then you'll still want to make sure to not leave it too long once it's up to temperature in the core.



Quote:

JPDancer said:
People misusing terms like bulk sub and spawn, and casing. They mix em all up and it was hard to get em straight, especially since alot of those were in random threads I read for fun and most of the teks I was reading were just pf variations.



Yea, That's why I'm always trying to link the new members to TEKs that are very very clear and explanatory

Quote:

newera said:
the hardest part for me was not diving right in, i did my homework for a long time before i started anything and jumped right into grains and agar, unfortunately my grain choice was popcorn and my agar was just brf/water but it got the job done and gave me a good understanding of everything and how it works and by the time my first fruits came i had already done proper dishes which i used to inoculate proper grains with sfd's and not pollyfill, but i followed every tek to the t and never made my own adjustments



Yea, chances are you're going to make a few mistakes like buying popcorn(most likely due to all the old info that's so easily assessable) but either way you've gotten started and come to the right place to fine tune everything.


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