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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Science and the spiritual path
#19269501 - 12/13/13 06:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Most of science is of very little help when it comes to spirituality, just like all that we know about neuroscience has not succeeded in curing basic ailments like depression and anxiety, nor has it helped us much with perfecting the art of therapy. This is because science mostly exists in the realm of concepts and concepts are imaginary. In spirituality, we seek to transcend what is imaginary, not add to it (although we usually end up doing just that).
However, there is one aspect of science that is extremely helpful on the spiritual path and this is actually quite ironic. This is the scientific state of mind. If you can look at yourself with an impartial, scientific state of mind and just say "what is this? what is going on here? and really look, without thinking of yourself as a person but just looking at yourself as a thing, a strange thing needs investigating, you can come up with some profound insights into your true nature. The reason we can never perceive ourselves accurately is because we have allowed ourselves to become emotionally invested in a certain concept of who we are or want to be. Think how much clearer our vision would be if we simply dropped this and treated our self with no more partiality than we treat a tin can.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Science and the spiritual path [Re: Deviate]
#19269581 - 12/13/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: However, there is one aspect of science that is extremely helpful on the spiritual path and this is actually quite ironic. This is the scientific state of mind. If you can look at yourself with an impartial, scientific state of mind and just say "what is this?
Yep, self-inquiry or self-attention is a scientific method, there can be a theory behind it and it's testable, the only difference is that you are essentially testing nothing so you can't ever expect to come to a final solid objective conclusion
The theory is that you are reality which is infinite bliss, the method is to pay attention to yourself holding no preconceptions about what that is, not even the thought that you are infinite bliss, so no attention to anything other than yourself, as much as you can
If the theory turns out to be true i don't feel that you'd need to have an objective conclusion
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Edited by Chronic7 (12/13/13 07:22 AM)
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Science and the spiritual path [Re: Deviate]
#19269689 - 12/13/13 07:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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in before someone else posts it:
“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light‐years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.” -Carl Sagan
Quote:
However, there is one aspect of science that is extremely helpful on the spiritual path and this is actually quite ironic. This is the scientific state of mind. If you can look at yourself with an impartial, scientific state of mind and just say "what is this? what is going on here? and really look, without thinking of yourself as a person but just looking at yourself as a thing, a strange thing needs investigating, you can come up with some profound insights into your true nature. The reason we can never perceive ourselves accurately is because we have allowed ourselves to become emotionally invested in a certain concept of who we are or want to be. Think how much clearer our vision would be if we simply dropped this and treated our self with no more partiality than we treat a tin can.
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all this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
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Re: Science and the spiritual path [Re: Deviate]
#19269996 - 12/13/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: In spirituality, we seek to transcend what is imaginary, not add to it...
Not me. There's nothing to "transcend." I agree with my good buddy U.G. Krishnamurti on that.
Endless loop here, though.
If there's anything to "transcend," it's the notion that there's something to transcend.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Science and the spiritual path [Re: Deviate]
#19270157 - 12/13/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: Most of science is of very little help when it comes to spirituality, just like all that we know about neuroscience has not succeeded in curing basic ailments like depression and anxiety, nor has it helped us much with perfecting the art of therapy. This is because science mostly exists in the realm of concepts and concepts are imaginary. In spirituality, we seek to transcend what is imaginary, not add to it (although we usually end up doing just that).
However, there is one aspect of science that is extremely helpful on the spiritual path and this is actually quite ironic. This is the scientific state of mind. If you can look at yourself with an impartial, scientific state of mind and just say "what is this? what is going on here? and really look, without thinking of yourself as a person but just looking at yourself as a thing, a strange thing needs investigating, you can come up with some profound insights into your true nature. The reason we can never perceive ourselves accurately is because we have allowed ourselves to become emotionally invested in a certain concept of who we are or want to be. Think how much clearer our vision would be if we simply dropped this and treated our self with no more partiality than we treat a tin can.
What's even stranger still to me at least is we can all use this method and come up with different conclusions.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Quote:
all this beauty said:
Quote:
Deviate said: In spirituality, we seek to transcend what is imaginary, not add to it...
Not me. There's nothing to "transcend." I agree with my good buddy U.G. Krishnamurti on that.
Endless loop here, though.
If there's anything to "transcend," it's the notion that there's something to transcend. 

I think your both right
The only thing in the way, if there is anything in the way, is thoughts, including the thought that 'thoughts are in the way', thoughts could also be called imagination so your saying the same thing in my eye
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Science and the spiritual path [Re: Chronic7]
#19273896 - 12/14/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think everybody is right about everything even if they're not.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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