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InvisibleNeller
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Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 63
Loc: kentucky
Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing
    #19268288 - 12/12/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So, I did a little experiment on 11/7/13. I had some grain to pc (some wbs and rye) and decided I would use a portion of both to see how necessary pcing is.

I soaked both for around 24 hrs, boiled both for about 5 min, drained and loaded into jars. I pced 7 of them that would have productive lives being food for some kind of mushroom mycelium and 4 of them would never be inoculated for the purpose of science.

Of the 4:

one quart of rye and one quart of wbs were steam sterilized in a stock pot for 60 min. This is with the standard ball lids and bands in place loosely. Once the pot cooled a little with the lid on I opened the pot and tightened the lids(which was probably unnecessary with the vacuum sucking the lids on tight anyway) so no contams could get in. (test subject)

One half pint of rye and one half pint of wbs were allowed to cool for 20 to 30 min from the initial 5 min boil and the lids were placed on jars. (control)

Now I know there aren't enough test subjects here for a true experiment but it's still pretty crazy that none of the jars have contaminated with anything after over a month of chillin'. Not even the control group!

This was extremely surprising to me so I have thought of a few possible reasons why this could be:

1. The grains in the boil were sterilized and the residual heat from that killed any contams that might have floated onto them while in open air.

2.The soak germinated every spore in/on the grains making them more susceptible to heat(which doesn't explain floating contams in the open air).

3. A vacuum(not a true vacuum mind you) possibly makes it hard for contams to grow.

4. There is a lot of overkill going on in the traditional grain prep for mushroom cultivation.

Please don't stab me in the face for posting the results of an experiment. I know it is proven that pcing works. It is the method I use as well.

You can light your pants on fire to get rid of crabs but there may be a better way... like crotch grinding them off on your boss' seat. :borfase:


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"If there’s one generational difference I notice between my parents’ generation and mine, is that my generation values time over money. And not because we’re lazy either, but because we’re not willing to trade time with the people we love most for a gold watch at retirement."
-BRETT

Reaching for heaven is what I'm on earth to do.



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OfflineSkysTheLimit
A curious mind


Registered: 07/28/13
Posts: 168
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing [Re: Neller]
    #19269345 - 12/13/13 04:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I'd point to 1 & 2, but theres a chance that your house has very little airborne contaminants or anything OR your grains are so dry that nothing can grow on them.

I reckon you should have set a control against the boiling..
That is, make a jar with grain that has been boiled, cooled and exposed to some 'dirty air' to prove that there actually are viable contaminants in the air in your place. Then you could more positively point to option 1 & 2

Curious experiment!


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Offlinet3chnobily
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Re: Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing [Re: SkysTheLimit]
    #19269425 - 12/13/13 05:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

try inoculating and expanding


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InvisibleNeller
Stranger

Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 63
Loc: kentucky
Re: Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19274561 - 12/14/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

"I reckon you should have set a control against the boiling..
That is, make a jar with grain that has been boiled, cooled and exposed to some 'dirty air' to prove that there actually are viable contaminants in the air in your place. Then you could more positively point to option 1 & 2"

Good idea. I thought for sure they would contam the way I did them but I guess not. It would be sweet to find out that I had excellent air quality though.

I did inoculate the jars that were pced and they did well. They were preped the same way as the others other than pcing vs. boiling. I may try that.

In the light of this experiment I would like to do an experiment to see what the shortest time for pcing that will achieve sterilization.


--------------------
"If there’s one generational difference I notice between my parents’ generation and mine, is that my generation values time over money. And not because we’re lazy either, but because we’re not willing to trade time with the people we love most for a gold watch at retirement."
-BRETT

Reaching for heaven is what I'm on earth to do.



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Offlinet3chnobily
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Re: Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing [Re: Neller]
    #19275475 - 12/14/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Do what you will but this has all been gone over many times.  Stick to procedure.  30-45 mins at 15 psi for quart jars.  8 hours at 100C  anything less will not work 100% off the time.


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OfflineSkysTheLimit
A curious mind


Registered: 07/28/13
Posts: 168
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing [Re: Neller]
    #19275877 - 12/14/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Neller said:
In the light of this experiment I would like to do an experiment to see what the shortest time for pcing that will achieve sterilization.




^That isn't a good idea, because no single jar will have the same contaiminants, same moisture and substrate volume. The result will be jars that sterilize with varying times, so you shouldn't find a minimum time, but rather a time which guarantees 100% sterilization (which has been done)


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InvisibleNeller
Stranger

Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 63
Loc: kentucky
Re: Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing [Re: SkysTheLimit]
    #19278465 - 12/15/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

t3chnobily said:
Do what you will but this has all been gone over many times.  Stick to procedure.  30-45 mins at 15 psi for quart jars.  8 hours at 100C  anything less will not work 100% off the time.




See, I've read 60 mins for pc, which is the method I use now. So which is correct? 30, 45, or 60?

Assuming all variables were isolated in previous experiments I will come up with the same results(30-45 mins at 15 psi for quart jars), and I'm wasting my time.

I'm planning on testing pc times with the 24 hour soak and 5 minute pre-boil. The jars will be equipped with a standard tyvek filter and will never be opened once sterilized. From then on time will tell.

I will expose some of them to air as a control group. This time not while they are still hot!

Quote:

SkysTheLimit said:
Quote:

Neller said:
In the light of this experiment I would like to do an experiment to see what the shortest time for pcing that will achieve sterilization.




^That isn't a good idea, because no single jar will have the same contaiminants, same moisture and substrate volume. The result will be jars that sterilize with varying times, so you shouldn't find a minimum time, but rather a time which guarantees 100% sterilization (which has been done)




If 7 out of 7 jars do not contam that is 100% sterilization. You can guarantee 100% sterilization over a certain minimum time. Some people say that minimum time is 30 mins. So that would mean anything over 30mins will work. You could pc for 2 years and it would guarantee sterilization but so would 30 mins.

I'm not a big time grower either. Just a guy with some extra jars and grain. I'm not for or against anything anyone else does to prep their grain. Just an experiment with shared results.


--------------------
"If there’s one generational difference I notice between my parents’ generation and mine, is that my generation values time over money. And not because we’re lazy either, but because we’re not willing to trade time with the people we love most for a gold watch at retirement."
-BRETT

Reaching for heaven is what I'm on earth to do.



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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19278519 - 12/15/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

t3chnobily said:
Do what you will but this has all been gone over many times.  Stick to procedure.  30-45 mins at 15 psi for quart jars.  8 hours at 100C  anything less will not work 100% off the time.




You really only do that long for quart jars of spawn?  I'm assuming you've been doing it for a while that way without problems?  Man, I read 90 minutes for quarts so that's what I've been doing.  I'd like to start trying less if you say 45 is good!


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Onlinedeadmandave
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Re: Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing [Re: Forrester]
    #19278682 - 12/15/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

30-45 minutes at 15 psi :confused: in quart jars?
I have always pc'ed for 90 minutes...


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InvisibleNeller
Stranger

Registered: 10/18/13
Posts: 63
Loc: kentucky
Re: Steam Sterilizing and No Sterilizing [Re: deadmandave]
    #19279161 - 12/15/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

t3chnobily said:
Do what you will but this has all been gone over many times.  Stick to procedure.  30-45 mins at 15 psi for quart jars.  8 hours at 100C  anything less will not work 100% off the time.




You really only do that long for quart jars of spawn?  I'm assuming you've been doing it for a while that way without problems?  Man, I read 90 minutes for quarts so that's what I've been doing.  I'd like to start trying less if you say 45 is good!



Quote:

deadmandave said:
30-45 minutes at 15 psi :confused: in quart jars?
I have always pc'ed for 90 minutes...




This is why I would like to do an experiment on this.

I like refried beans. That's why I wanna try fried beans, 'cause maybe they're just as good and we're wastin' time.
:hedberg1:


--------------------
"If there’s one generational difference I notice between my parents’ generation and mine, is that my generation values time over money. And not because we’re lazy either, but because we’re not willing to trade time with the people we love most for a gold watch at retirement."
-BRETT

Reaching for heaven is what I'm on earth to do.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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