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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: TheOtherAdamSmith]
    #19266571 - 12/12/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheOtherAdamSmith said:
The world supported Afghanistan, most of the US allies didn't support Iraq. The politicians from other countries who did got their ass beat at the voting booths.

What did Saddam do that demanded he be taken out? Saudi Arabia is one of the US' best friends, full of fundamentalist Sunnis, and they are where the 9/11 terrorist came from. They didn't deserve an attack?




Most of US allies didn't support Iraq?  How come 50 of them joined in and the UN said fine?  The Saudi government did not perpetrate 9/11.  A handful of their citizens did.  Citizens that they were well supportive of jailing and they had in fact been pursuing bin Laden for quite some time.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19266576 - 12/12/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why does it bother you?  I'm agreeing with you.  Your insecurity is showing, bro.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
    #19266607 - 12/12/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That is, quite frankly, deranged nonsense.  Do you believe in contracts?  Saddam Hussein was in violation of his contract.  Do you believe in law enforcement?  Afghanistan was harboring an international mass murderer.



This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen you write.  Are you saying that killing thousands for breaking a contract is just?  That is beyond stupid.


And name another time when we've invaded a country to get a fugitive.  That is simply ridiculous, dude.




What started WW1?  The Taliban are fucking monsters who harbored and succored terrorists for decades.  Enough.  Iraq invaded Kuwait and signed a cease fire agreement that was violated.  There was no new war, just a resumption of hostilities in earnest.  Even Clinton bombed him.  It was enough.

What is beyond stupid is cowards who stick their head in the sand and refuse to accept that there are scumbags acting to tap that ass for all it is worth and yet whinge endlessly when they get the dick they deserve.  I aint putting my head in the sand and I aint presenting my ass for the jolly rogering some seem to be willing to take.

Not for nothing but you are going to have go a long way towards proving that either of our actions resulted in greater net misery.  Both the Taliban and Saddam were murdering monsters


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OfflineTheOtherAdamSmith
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19266651 - 12/12/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TheOtherAdamSmith said:
The world supported Afghanistan, most of the US allies didn't support Iraq. The politicians from other countries who did got their ass beat at the voting booths.

What did Saddam do that demanded he be taken out? Saudi Arabia is one of the US' best friends, full of fundamentalist Sunnis, and they are where the 9/11 terrorist came from. They didn't deserve an attack?




Most of US allies didn't support Iraq?  How come 50 of them joined in and the UN said fine?  The Saudi government did not perpetrate 9/11.  A handful of their citizens did.  Citizens that they were well supportive of jailing and they had in fact been pursuing bin Laden for quite some time.




The UN didn't say fine. The US went it without a resolution. The UN just isn't able to punish them for it. Learn your history. The only countries they don't own that agreed were Australia and the UK. Germany, Canada, all those others who usually support them? Hell no.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19266661 - 12/12/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know what "not for nothing" even means....

The rest of your rant is just that.  You claim we went to war in Iraq because they broke a contract.  That is not a valid reason to kill thousands of people, dude...color it however you want.

As for Afghanistan, there are tons of shitbags in the world...including many in our own nation.  That doesn't mean it's okay to invade a nation and kill thousands of citizens of said nation. 

You seem to be okay with the idea of going to war over just about anything.  I'm not.  I don't think bullying a bully makes us any less culpable, particularly when we harm a whole lot of the bullied at the same time.  Your whole philosophy in this regard smacks of some kind of twisted mix of national pride and ethnocentric narcissism.  We've no fucking business going to foreign lands and killing people just because we don't like the way they do things.  FFS, that's not much different from what Al Qaeda did to us a decade and change ago.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
    #19266678 - 12/12/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I don't know what "not for nothing" even means....

The rest of your rant is just that.  You claim we went to war in Iraq because they broke a contract.  That is not a valid reason to kill thousands of people, dude...color it however you want.




If I break my tax contract with the government they come with guns and put me in jail unless I defend myself.  Then they shoot me.  Contract enforcement.
Quote:



As for Afghanistan, there are tons of shitbags in the world...including many in our own nation.  That doesn't mean it's okay to invade a nation and kill thousands of citizens of said nation. 

You seem to be okay with the idea of going to war over just about anything.  I'm not.  I don't think bullying a bully makes us any less culpable, particularly when we harm a whole lot of the bullied at the same time.  Your whole philosophy in this regard smacks of some kind of twisted mix of national pride and ethnocentric narcissism.  We've no fucking business going to foreign lands and killing people just because we don't like the way they do things.  FFS, that's not much different from what Al Qaeda did to us a decade and change ago.




If you house and support Clyde Barrow and the popo come to get him and you say, "No, fuck you" and they bring their guns and you fight back you gonna get shot up too.

I am surprised a lawyer doesn't believe in the law.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19266694 - 12/12/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Your analogies fail on many levels, but the most important shortcoming within them is that they miss the fact that the people killed in war are not the people culpable for the conduct being punished.

It would be like the IRS coming and bombing your entire block because you failed to file a tax return....or the cops shooting people until they finally get barrow.

I do believe in the law, and one of the core principles of the law is sovereignty.  Iraq and Afghanistan are (were) sovereign nations and were NOT subject to U.S. law.  We invaded them because we didn't like something they did...not because they attacked us...or even one of our allies..  We didn't approve of their behavior, so we invaded.

Where was the bombing of France over Roman Polanski?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
    #19266732 - 12/12/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Your analogies fail on many levels, but the most important shortcoming within them is that they miss the fact that the people killed in war are not the people culpable for the conduct being punished.




Some of them are and some of them aren't.  Who is responsible for the deaths from a police chase that kills a pedestrian?  What does the law say, counselor?
Quote:



It would be like the IRS coming and bombing your entire block because you failed to file a tax return....or the cops shooting people until they finally get barrow.




Well no.  It would be like the IRS shooting me when I stood my ground with a gun and told them to fuck off
Quote:



I do believe in the law, and one of the core principles of the law is sovereignty.  Iraq and Afghanistan are (were) sovereign nations and were NOT subject to U.S. law.  We invaded them because we didn't like something they did...not because they attacked us...or even one of our allies..  We didn't approve of their behavior, so we invaded.




Was Iraq sovereign after it signed the cease fire agreement?  If you are going to argue that that contract meant nothing then let's by all means never accept another surrender
Quote:



Where was the bombing of France over Roman Polanski?


  I believe we should go there and get the pedophile freak.  There or anywhere else.  He aint exactly hiding.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19266757 - 12/12/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Who is responsible for the deaths from a police chase that kills a pedestrian?  What does the law say, counselor?


The cop if he was negligent, and the person being chased
Quote:


Well no.  It would be like the IRS shooting me when I stood my ground with a gun and told them to fuck off


That would be illegal, too, and whoever shot you would likely be prosecuted for it
Quote:



Was Iraq sovereign after it signed the cease fire agreement? 


Yes
Quote:

  I believe we should go there and get the pedophile freak.  There or anywhere else.  He aint exactly hiding.



And maybe other countries should invade us for not turning over fugitives.  I do recall that Bush and Cheney were indicted.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
    #19266879 - 12/12/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Who is responsible for the deaths from a police chase that kills a pedestrian?  What does the law say, counselor?


The cop if he was negligent, and the person being chased




And if there is no cop negligence?
Quote:


Quote:






Well no.  It would be like the IRS shooting me when I stood my ground with a gun and told them to fuck off



That would be illegal, too, and whoever shot you would likely be prosecuted for it




ORLY?  A cop can be arrested for shooting me while violently resisting arrest? 
Quote:






Quote:



Was Iraq sovereign after it signed the cease fire agreement? 


Yes




Bullshit.  They surrendered much of their sovereignty when the accepted the terms
Quote:



Quote:

  I believe we should go there and get the pedophile freak.  There or anywhere else.  He aint exactly hiding.



And maybe other countries should invade us for not turning over fugitives.  I do recall that Bush and Cheney were indicted.




Polanski wasn't indicted.  He was convicted


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InvisibleShins
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19266911 - 12/12/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
You're missing the point.  They knew before they joined or re-upped that they would be participating in an unjust war if they did so.  Knowing that, they still signed up.  That makes them 100% responsible for their participation in unjust wars.



There was nothing unjust about going to war with either Iraq or Afghanistan.  You can put that claim back into the ass you pulled it out of.






Yeah yeah we all know in your eyes killing muslims is just under any circumstances


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
    #19266927 - 12/12/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Why does it bother you?  I'm agreeing with you.  Your insecurity is showing, bro.



i wasn't bothered. I got confused about what my previous post was so i didn't understand why you had set reply to me.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Shins]
    #19266955 - 12/12/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
You're missing the point.  They knew before they joined or re-upped that they would be participating in an unjust war if they did so.  Knowing that, they still signed up.  That makes them 100% responsible for their participation in unjust wars.



There was nothing unjust about going to war with either Iraq or Afghanistan.  You can put that claim back into the ass you pulled it out of.






Yeah yeah we all know in your eyes killing muslims is just under any circumstances



No.  Do you know who kills, by far, the most Muslims?  Muslims.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19266959 - 12/12/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
You're missing the point.  They knew before they joined or re-upped that they would be participating in an unjust war if they did so.  Knowing that, they still signed up.  That makes them 100% responsible for their participation in unjust wars.



There was nothing unjust about going to war with either Iraq or Afghanistan.  You can put that claim back into the ass you pulled it out of.






Yeah yeah we all know in your eyes killing muslims is just under any circumstances



No.  Do you know who kills, by far, the most Muslims?  Muslims.



and we should get the fuck out of the way and let them kill each other.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19266998 - 12/12/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Now, yes.  100% out.  If they act stupid again deal with it then.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19267105 - 12/12/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

ORLY?  A cop can be arrested for shooting me while violently resisting arrest? 


Holding a gun and telling someone to fuck off isn't violently resisting arrest, and it isn't justification to shoot someone.  Further, the IRS isn't a police agency.  Even further, the military aren't cops.  Even further still, IRS obligations aren't a matter of contract.  Your silly little metaphor fails at every level.
Quote:

Polanski wasn't indicted.  He was convicted



Does that make him any more of a fugitive?


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
    #19267537 - 12/12/13 07:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

First off, thank you for adding my quote to your sig, I'll wear it as a badge of  honor.


Second excuse the backtrack here but there's something I need to clear up

Quote:

There are many ways to serve one's country.  If the best one has to offer is military service, then he/she doesn't have much to offer at all.




Then who does?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: sweeper54]
    #19267612 - 12/12/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

People who do public research into public health issues, scientists who develop technologies for national defense or infrastructure upgrades to help America be more competitive...tons of people contribute far more than manual labor or service as a meat shield..


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: Enlil]
    #19267883 - 12/12/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

scientists who develop technologies for national defense or infrastructure upgrades to help America be more competitive




So you want to know how to make the infrastructure upgrades, but your party doesn't want to spend the dollars to help America be more competitive.

How is paying people billions to "develop technologies for national defense" honorable and someone in the military using those technologies not?


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InvisibleShins
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Re: vitriol for vets? [Re: sweeper54]
    #19268005 - 12/12/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You're kind of reinforcing his military men aren't very smart point FYI.


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