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st1llnox
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Native American Church -- UPDATED: I'm invited to go visit them to get things figured out!!!
#19264935 - 12/12/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.oklevueha.org/Questions___Answers.html
I stumbled upon this organization when I found a meetup listing for a legal peyote ceremony open to the public in my state.
Native American Church... seems like there's been success around the country not being prosecuted for peyote and even marijuana(!!!) due to membership and involvement in/with this church.
I like drugs, and I am interested in spirituality, but frankly this one places SO much emphasis on the legal protection benefit that despite the neater aspects of their spirituality (I mean, how often do churches unambiguously declare everyone unequivocally equal?), this kind of smells like a ritualized excuse to get high.
What are you guys' thoughts? Anyone here a member?
It seems based on a video in a WAY old TPE thread, though, that many who aren't like us at all (know little about drugs or only have used simple highs like heroin and speed) and who aren't necessarily into their spirituality have had life-changing experiences joining their ceremonies.
UPDATE: Their leader has invited me to go down and visit to get things figured out if I feel so called. I said I was going to fast today and think about it, but it's already become pretty clear in my mind that this would be a BRILLIANT thing and is exactly the right first step now that my path is clear. Their leader has a great philosophy and perspective and it's clear he could really help me figure a lot of shit out. I doubt I'll use peyote any time soon BUT it is blatantly clear that they're the real deal and not an excuse to get high.
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
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Edited by st1llnox (12/13/13 11:26 AM)
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nicechrisman
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
#19264966 - 12/12/13 09:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I support them and what they do. I'd love to sit in on a meeting some day. I have friends who have and they had good stories and things to say. I think just as with any group, there are people there who in different levels of understanding about what it's all about. I'm sure there are those who go just to "get high" or whatever. I'm sure there are also those who come from a beautiful tradition that has been handed down to them by their fathers and grandfathers who really view it as a beautiful divine experience.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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st1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: nicechrisman]
#19264994 - 12/12/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I mean don't get me wrong--I'm all for drugs, period (almost). I do think their spirituality is cool as well as their egalitarianism, but I'd feel betrayed if I got into it and then started realizing that most people are just looking for something to spook a judge with or something.
I might see if my best friend wants to go to one of the Missouri group's entheogen ceremonies sometime though; it'd be a fucking sweet way to experience peyote for the first time.
Their bundles are pretty neat too; I've kept small things of significance or that I felt represented something about me my whole life and it's neat that that's a foundation of their ritual practice.
I'd be lying if I didn't say I wasn't also interested in getting high, but frankly my interest in drugs is largely for thought/mind/spiritual effects rather than physical sensation alone.
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
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Soluminia
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: nicechrisman]
#19264999 - 12/12/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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They have peyote ceremonies at the school I go to. Always wanted to go to have the traditional experience.
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st1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Soluminia]
#19265015 - 12/12/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Soluminia said: They have peyote ceremonies at the school I go to. Always wanted to go to have the traditional experience.
That's pretty freakin' awesome. What's neat is it seems that members of this church can "certify" in the different ceremonies and then put them on for people, who will also be legally protected.
Do you guys think this could be extended to shrooms? Still haven't tried em but still... They even have a procedure for getting different ceremonial things legally "bona fide" to protect you.
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
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Everlong
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Soluminia] 2
#19265017 - 12/12/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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OP we totally believe you are interested in this because of the spirituality aspect 

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st1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Everlong]
#19265030 - 12/12/13 09:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'd be lying if I didn't say I wasn't also interested in getting high
It's more that I'd hate to be the only one not in on the joke (joke being that this is essentially a Sioux-flavored ACLU-type initiative )
I do drugs anyway--this would just be more homework.
And I read a lot of their pages and from what I gleaned, to protect something trivial like cannabis use you'd have to go through this rather intricate ritual every time you toked.
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
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mpd
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox] 1
#19265061 - 12/12/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The things people will do just to take drugs. Shame, OP! Shame! What would Jesus do? 
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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st1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
#19265073 - 12/12/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lullers
Part of me is still saying this is more work to do the same drugs.
And are you then not allowed to like, say, trip balls and play video games?
If someone wanted to, maybe they don't consider the experience sacred after all but I haven't experienced classic psyches yet so I clearly have an incomplete frame of reference.
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K1ngSp4de
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
#19265165 - 12/12/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use mush in a ceremony, it says a whole range of plants and animals, but you could probably get mush accepted as a sacrament.
-------------------- PC Repair and Troubleshooting Forum If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. - Thomas Jefferson Si peccasse negamus fallimur et nulla est in nobis veritas.
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st1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: K1ngSp4de]
#19265556 - 12/12/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
K1ngSp4de said: I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use mush in a ceremony, it says a whole range of plants and animals, but you could probably get mush accepted as a sacrament.
I haven't tried it so I don't know if it will be a sacred experience or not. Someone in TPE said it feels ancient though and if that were the case, that's about as religious as it gets with me.
I wouldn't risk mushies in MO I don't think though (as in like participating in advertised ceremonies or whatever) but again, if they're like what some of you've described them as then they might be something I'd like to do in a personally-sacramental way (although I think sacramental might be implying too much; ritual would be a better word).
I do not believe in canned religions but I could see myself incorporating some of their beliefs.
I'm not sure if there'd really be a benefit to joining, legal-wise... wait holy shit I just remembered having a ridiculously religious/spiritual practically full-blown trip smoking weed a couple weeks ago. I think I posted about it on here too...
This looks like it might be a valid way to protect against possession/receipt controlled substance issues. I can't see the legal protection helping the way I smoke most of the time, but I'd be no worse off.
I'm just curious more than anything if any of you guys are members. It was good to hear in a reply that someone's been to a ceremony
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here
  
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psi
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
#19265629 - 12/12/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There was a similar thread maybe a couple months ago where a couple of people had mentioned that they had been to a few of the ceremonies (may have been another similar church.)
IMO it's kind of bullshit for the government to get in the business of deciding which religious views are legit, but
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nicechrisman
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: psi]
#19265655 - 12/12/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I agree. I mean I think it's great they fought for the protection that they have earned, and they deserve it, but who's to say that any of our beliefs and ceremonies are any less valid.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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st1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: nicechrisman]
#19265695 - 12/12/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: I agree. I mean I think it's great they fought for the protection that they have earned, and they deserve it, but who's to say that any of our beliefs and ceremonies are any less valid.
I suppose it's a little harder to screw over someone you've robbed blind, deaf, and mute of one of their most sacred things.
The Oklavueha tribe exists for the sole purpose of promoting the use and benefits of spiritual ceremony including peyote, though, according to some court papers I read about their Raging Bear Mooney fellow in Hawaii.
These guys HAVE the protection somehow though; the court papers I read were because 1lb of FedEx-ed weed got confiscated and THE TRIBE SUED THE POLICE TO GET THEIR WEED BACK
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here
  
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highc
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
#19265760 - 12/12/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm all for it. There are def people there just to get high. But I mean evenif that the case the experiences they will have will point their believes in a particular direction. Be it a breakthrough type where you understand as far as your concerned, life as it stands and a gods role in it. Or be it a terrifying experience that shuns the undeserving one away in fear of ever returning to experience truly divine states. Even if a majority of people were misusing this as an excuse to trip, it should in no way defer you from attending and pursuing it for your own reasons.
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larry.fisherman
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
#19265805 - 12/12/13 01:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's really interesting to me because recently Ive been developing what I'm essentially calling a religion, on spirituality and knowledge through higher levels of consciousness. It would base upon what I perceive as being good people and living healthy and free of stress. It would also advocate for our right to mentally invest in whatever we deem comfortable with our psyche. That being said I would only happily advocate entheogens, not phens and such. Not that I would shun people, just not suggest it. Imagine a "church" you could go to weekly to hear stories of the good going on with the world, and way to see the light in the world. I could have bad trip recovery groups, and communal ayahuasca sessions. There could be a real life network of kind generous people there to see us through. Have you ever been tripping out and really needed anyone, or the right person there? Or to talk to? It could be really cool I want to call it the Church of Trip, or maybe the Church of Entheogenic Enlightenment, or some shit. It could be the best thing ive ever done. I'm imagining a mashup religion based off of current popular, respectable belief structures. I hope when I have this fully developed and put out there, I might have some support from the community. I want to start it off places like here maybe, then lead in to my own anonymous site until it catches on, or maybe even the public eye. I'm almost talking about, what we could call, a hippy religion. But more sensible, logical, realistic. Down to earth. I want a real life shroomery i can go to, where all those people believe in being good people and living life to the fullest.
I really think if enough of us banded together, they would have no choice but to listen.
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Ultron
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: larry.fisherman]
#19265842 - 12/12/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i have a native american friend who's uncle does peyote ceremonies they usually dont let white ppl in on it but im on a waiting list to see if i can join in :/ its been about 6 or 7 months and i still haven't got a definite yes but ive been told that i will get to join in as long as i wait and i mean no disrespect
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highc
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: Ultron] 1
#19265865 - 12/12/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think that's wrong to not let "white people" join. It shouldn't be about that. They should want to spread this knowledge. Maybe even like an interview or something.
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st1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: highc]
#19266195 - 12/12/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wow everyone!!! Thanks so much for your helpful and interesting replies! I appreciate the encouragement, as I was honestly anticipated being made fun of.
Quote:
highc said: I'm all for it. There are def people there just to get high. But I mean evenif that the case the experiences they will have will point their believes in a particular direction. Be it a breakthrough type where you understand as far as your concerned, life as it stands and a gods role in it. Or be it a terrifying experience that shuns the undeserving one away in fear of ever returning to experience truly divine states. Even if a majority of people were misusing this as an excuse to trip, it should in no way defer you from attending and pursuing it for your own reasons.
Dude thanks so much I'm going to call the leader of one of that church within the next few days after my excitement simmers down and I have a better grip on what questions I have.
What's interesting for me is that drugs I did for recreational purposes ended up becoming spiritual.
Like in this thread, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18449093/fpart/1/vc/1
I had a DXM trip that showed me that I was abusing tobacco and that the gods put it here to bring us together, so it's okay to use communally but by making it a company-optional, often solitary, and always-necessary part of life we lose the communal benefit and it separates us from one another.
I also had a full on weed trip a couple weeks ago in this thread that was very obviously religious in nature.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19198778
Quote:
. I got high and... I had this like... religious revelation, where I thought of my mother as a woman of faith. This was all while I was in the smoking nook undetected and unsmelled, and I suddenly saw life through her eyes (inspired by a "lord watch over me" magnet holding up a picture of her graduating from college) and realized oh wow, she thinks we're going to see grandma and grandpa again literally and that jesus died for us and God loves us and watches over us, listening to our concerns and formulating solutions in response to our prayers. Angels were real and watched over us. Miracles happen, although only quirky ""how did that get here" poooossssible miracles ever happened (like a lost picture of a relative lost in a billfold that turned up in a towel drawer).
And I realized exactly how much she really did love me and how having me really was the happiest day of her life. And how I have hurt her deeply and stressed my aging dad out maybe sending him to an early grave, and how my brother came in and I held him and we actually grew up together--is anything more special? We shared our most precious years together and best of all, he looked up to me like a hero that whole time.
One final thing is that like in 2010 before my couple-years downfall, I would always have these very tribal feelings smoking, sometimes even fantasizing about joining an indigenous tribe. These were over-the-top and far-fetched, of course, but the direction they point is clear and they inspired me to watch Quest for Fire and Avatar kinds of movies while under the influence on those instances.
I also grew up in boy scouts so I'm not sure if that's a factor. I don't feel a deep connection to the Native Americans as a people but rather to how they live and all of my pseudo-psychedelic experiences of wanting to be tribal were of integrating myself holistically rather than abandoning my own heritage entirely for the sake of another one. I'll have to see what they think of that but I think this could be cool.
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here
  
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st1llnox
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Re: Native American Church -- Peyote-Dosing Shaman Stoners In My State [Re: st1llnox]
#19268443 - 12/12/13 10:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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OMG I've officially been texting the MO President!!! 
He says he will talk to me on the phone tomorrow. Here is what I plan to ask him; for those of you--both who have and haven't posted in this thread--please let me know if any of these questions could be considered offensive:
I consider animals to have a similar soul and essence as humans and have been vegetarian for 5 years, and to spiritually practice truly in accord with what I feel the ubiquitous spirit compels me to, it probably can't be with dowry procured by the hunting of another sentient being.
Making a spirit bundle is assignment number 1, but does this mean that after that, there are more assignments that are tried and true to help one's spirituality develop?
And they're okay with concurrent Christian practice, but what if someone has a composite amalgam type of religion as their entry foundation, that has sources outside of Christianity AND outside of NAC's orthodoxy?
GOD I AM STOKED!!! I wonder if they would let me come stay with them for a few days to see if it really is right and so that I could work on their grounds and talk in depth with their leader... 
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here
  
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