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OfflineKalypto
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Final LFH questions
    #19264813 - 12/12/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Couple of things I want to clarify before I start buying parts.

If my filter is rated for .9 or 1 inch does my blower need to be rated for that?

Is it possible that a blower that can only go to .7 for example would be able to meet the resistance but at a reduced CFM rate?

If im not mistaken we want between 100-200 CFM coming out of our filter so I would need to find a blower that does 100-200 CFM at 1.2 inch if I add some pre filters?  Or is it 100-200 CFM per sq ft of filter surface area.

Would that mean for a 2ft x 2 ft hepa filter I would need 400 CFM at 1.2 inch static pressure?

Also what is required for laminar flow?

Is that just what the filter creates?

Or do I need to line up the filters to create the laminar flow?

Can or should I put all my filters together or not?

Also If I decide I want to put 2 2x2 next to each other , for the pre filters If I add them so the blower pushes through one set then splits the air how will that work with static pressure , should I just have a pre filter on each HEPA filter

Posting here cause I couldnt get what I was looking for from the normal cultivation forum


Edited by Kalypto (12/15/13 10:42 AM)


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19269875 - 12/13/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

bump
I  have spent a bunch of time reading the articles


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OfflineTheCyndicate
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19278477 - 12/15/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: TheCyndicate]
    #19278681 - 12/15/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Already read that many times still have the same questions


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19279359 - 12/15/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If youre looking for a blower that matches a 2x2 filter, you need to have a blower that can push 400+ cfm at 1.2" laminar flow is what will come out of the filter at the 100-200 cfm range i believe. put the prefilter before the blower. Why would you put 2, 2x2's together? you just need one hepa, and a filter of some type over the blower.


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: fractaldill]
    #19281662 - 12/15/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fractaldill said:
Why would you put 2, 2x2's together?.



I suspect it's because he would like a working area of 2x4ft.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: inski]
    #19281700 - 12/15/13 10:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ah... i read it as he was going to have 2 hepas one after the other.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: fractaldill]
    #19282341 - 12/16/13 03:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No I was going to do 2x4 feet cause the only blowers I could find at the right SP put out around 800 cfm


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OfflineTheCyndicate
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19282787 - 12/16/13 08:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kalypto said:
No I was going to do 2x4 feet cause the only blowers I could find at the right SP put out around 800 cfm



That would weigh a fucking ton.

Cyn


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: TheCyndicate]
    #19282804 - 12/16/13 08:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheCyndicate said:
Quote:

Kalypto said:
No I was going to do 2x4 feet cause the only blowers I could find at the right SP put out around 800 cfm



That would weigh a fucking ton.

Cyn




Ill just make it so it breaks down then


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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: TheCyndicate]
    #19282813 - 12/16/13 08:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I did it and it works fine.  Does way a ton though....






Build


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19282825 - 12/16/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Dont get me wrong I would rather do 2x2 I just cant find a blower putting out the right SP at anywhere near a low enough CFM


Quote:

t3chnobily said:
I did it and it works fine.  Does way a ton though....






Build





I like your build , you said its still blowing kind of hard?

Have you tried adding more filters or does that go above the SP limit and stop working


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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19282834 - 12/16/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I found a 16 x 20 air cleaner hepa that fit the intake and that brought my flow down too acceptable ranges according to lighter test.  I get no contamination working in my open lab in my less then sterile basement.

I never found a flow rate for my blower just kept stacking filters till it behaved itself.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19282839 - 12/16/13 08:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

t3chnobily said:
I found a 16 x 20 air cleaner hepa that fit the intake and that brought my flow down too acceptable ranges according to lighter test.  I get no contamination working in my open lab in my less then sterile basement.

I never found a flow rate for my blower just kept stacking filters till it behaved itself.




Im gonna have like 3 after the blower and x before to get speed right unless I go 2x4


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Offlinet3chnobily
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19282851 - 12/16/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If you don't want to go that big just get a motor speed contoroller

or a smaller blower


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19282855 - 12/16/13 08:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

t3chnobily said:
If you don't want to go that big just get a motor speed contoroller

or a smaller blower



Will I be able to maintain SP with the speed reduced?

I have literally spent hours looking for a blower that does like 500 cfm at 1.2


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Offlinet3chnobily
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19282863 - 12/16/13 08:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yes just hold the lighter in the flow and turn the dial until it it hits 45 degree.  They are nice because as the filter clogs up you can turn it up a little to maintain flow.

Edit:  Make sure your motor is compatable


Edited by t3chnobily (12/16/13 08:59 AM)


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19282874 - 12/16/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

t3chnobily said:
yes just hold the lighter in the flow and turn the dial until it it hits 45 degree.  They are nice because as the filter clogs up you can turn it up a little to maintain flow.

Edit:  Make sure your motor is compatable




Awesome , That may save me a few hundred on a motor.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19282983 - 12/16/13 09:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

t3chnobily said:
I found a 16 x 20 air cleaner hepa that fit the intake and that brought my flow down too acceptable ranges according to lighter test.




Perfect.  Those filters should make your expensive flow hood filter last essentially forever.  I've been on the same flow hood for 12 years now, and that's just from using top of the line furnace filters.  I run it about 4 hours every day, 7 days a week. The prefilter gets dirty and starts to clog after about three months.  Simply replace it and on you go.
RR


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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19283071 - 12/16/13 10:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Awesome , do you know what the MERV rating is on your filters?
Are electrostatic prefilters bad?


Edited by Kalypto (12/16/13 10:08 AM)


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19283448 - 12/16/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kalypto said:
No I was going to do 2x4 feet cause the only blowers I could find at the right SP put out around 800 cfm




get a variable speed controller and lower the cfms


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: fractaldill]
    #19283673 - 12/16/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thats what I now plan to do , I had asked to forums numerous times if it would maintain static pressure when using this but never got an answer


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19284071 - 12/16/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

the static pressure isnt changing, its the cfms


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: fractaldill]
    #19284102 - 12/16/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I now know but I needed to be sure before I spent a shit ton of money on a blower


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19284253 - 12/16/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i hear that...


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: fractaldill]
    #19285603 - 12/16/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fractaldill said:
the static pressure isnt changing, its the cfms




The static pressure changes as you speed the motor up.  As the static pressure increases, the flow increases.

You can also slow down a flowhood by blocking part of the intake filter or stacking several pre filters.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19285654 - 12/16/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

fractaldill said:
the static pressure isnt changing, its the cfms




The static pressure changes as you speed the motor up.  As the static pressure increases, the flow increases.

You can also slow down a flowhood by blocking part of the intake filter or stacking several pre filters.
RR




Now im confused. So if im trying to build a 2x1.5 flowhood, and the filter has a sp of .8, i need a blower that can push 300cfm at around .9,1" right? where in that is the static pressure changing? i can see the output decreasing with a higher SP, but i cant see the SP changing with different fan speeds.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: fractaldill]
    #19285769 - 12/16/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Not exactly.

Filters don't have a 'static pressure' of .8

They might have tested the filter at xyz flow, and found the resistance to be .8" W.C.  If that xyz flow is what you want, then get a blower which can handle that cfm at .8" of water column.

As the blower speeds up, it will try to push more air.  This by definition will increase static pressure in the plenum. This increased static pressure behind the filter will result in more flow out the front.
RR


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19285899 - 12/16/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Does this mean If I have a blower that is rated for 800 cfm at 1.2 SP and I turn it down to 400 cfm It wont be 1.2 SP?

Or will it maintain 1.2 and just slow down then stop ?


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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19287430 - 12/17/13 07:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Dude your over thinking this whole thing. 

1. Pick a filter

2  buy a fan rated 20-30% stronger than your going to need

3  build your hood

4  keep adding prefilters/block intake till you achieve laminar flow.

When you really dig into physics behind blower performance and fluid dynamics it gets so complicated and there are so many variables that it quickly boggles the mind.  You don't need an engineering degree to build a flow hood.  As my favorite coworker used to say  " Less jaw'en and more Saw'en"


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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19287439 - 12/17/13 07:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

t3chnobily said:
Dude your over thinking this whole thing. 

1. Pick a filter

2  buy a fan rated 20-30% stronger than your going to need

3  build your hood

4  keep adding prefilters/block intake till you achieve laminar flow.

When you really dig into physics behind blower performance and fluid dynamics it gets so complicated and there are so many variables that it quickly boggles the mind.  You don't need an engineering degree to build a flow hood.  As my favorite coworker used to say  " Less jaw'en and more Saw'en"




I dont know about you , but I like to know how stuff works .
Again as I have said I wanted to make sure it would work before I spend 300$ on a blower


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19287728 - 12/17/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

if you're gonna spend $300 on a blower, get the biggest one you can so you'll know it will work.  then there's nothing to think about.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: drake89]
    #19287935 - 12/17/13 10:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
if you're gonna spend $300 on a blower, get the biggest one you can so you'll know it will work.  then there's nothing to think about.





How about getting a blower thats not bigger than I need to save money .


Im not a person that just does stuff I think things through .


This hobby can be viewed scientifically and thats how I do it.

I actually want to go to school for mycology so this whole just do it things isnt gonna fly for me , I think things through .


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19287983 - 12/17/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If youre looking into a 24x24 flowhood youre really going to need to get something like the dayton 1tdu2. Ive yet to see a blower that will push 400cfm at 1-1.2". that being said youre going to need to amp it down a bit, as that pushes around 1040 cfm @ .8...


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: fractaldill]
    #19287989 - 12/17/13 10:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I know , Ive said Ive spent hours looking for blower I have multiple alternatives all I needed help with was the Questions at the beginning of the thread


also I am looking for something that does 1.2 ,1.1 minimum


Edited by Kalypto (12/17/13 10:54 AM)


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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19290008 - 12/17/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I looked into all this shit thoroughly and the only people who can give you in exact information you want are the engineers who designed your specific blower.  The variables I  mentioned have to do with the exact configuration of cowl, blade shape of your blower, speed and torque of your motor.  They dramatically affect performance.  Also the exact specifics of your hood design especially the plenum and fan box.  More than likely RH, air temperature and elevation all have effects also.  Even engineers have a imperfect understanding of fluid dynamics.  That is why things are built with safety factors.  Simply make a reasonable estimate of the needed power then make it 20-30% bigger.  Once its put together use the lighter test to dial it in.  This is how things get done in the real world.

If you want to save money score a filter off ebay,  scrounge a blower at an HVAC shop, use Melanie from depot.  My 2 x 4 hood cost about $250  I'm going to stop procrastinating now and go push some blocks through it.


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Offlinefractaldill
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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: t3chnobily]
    #19290070 - 12/17/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

250 for a 2x4 lfh? God damn here I am about for fork out 400 for an 18x24


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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: fractaldill]
    #19290200 - 12/17/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

for sure 70$ filter from ebay and another 30-50 in prefilters maybe a speed contoller will be all i pay


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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: Kalypto]
    #19290942 - 12/17/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Those speed controllers can be expensive, mine was just over $100 here in New Zealand.

You also need to be sure that your blower is designed to be fitted with one, if it isn't it will most likely burn out!


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Re: Final LFH questions [Re: inski]
    #19292185 - 12/18/13 07:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My dad does HVAC so it shouldnt be a problem , now that I know more about the physics of it im pretty sure My dad can do it all pretty easily


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