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Vis0nairee
Stranger



Registered: 12/02/13
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WTF! No VEIL?! PICS
#19261132 - 12/11/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Whats going on here? Looks like many of the small mushrooms don't have a Veil... 
 Im just assuming its some sort of genetic mutation...
Can someone tell me more? Do I have anything to be worried about? How will I know the perfect time to harvest if there is no Veil to observe?
MY FIRST GROW! 
Comments and questions welcome!
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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is this your clone grow? if so thats your answer
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19261154 - 12/11/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: is this your clone grow? if so thats your answer
Nope, this is my first grow. About 4 days after i first saw pins.
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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There are going to get bigger right?!
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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They may or may not get bigger. Watch the caps. If they start to go upturned, then you're done. Sorry.
I'd guess it was moisture content.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
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Quote:
Vis0nairee said: There are going to get bigger right?!
Not necessarily. These are likely mature, though the next flushe(s) will be much larger. I've seen this happen multiple times, typically this is a response to some sort of trauma they've experienced, sometimes from being over misted(most often), could also be low moisture in the sub(not likely), and sometimes this occurs when you flip a substrate. I have some pics to prove this if I can find them.
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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2bittoker
Resident PMP Advocate


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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19261175 - 12/11/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Im no expert on bulk, but I'd say these look dried out. What are the conditions these grew in.
And I'd say these are done, for the most part. Not the pins, but the ones with the gills turned outwards for sure.
-------------------- “I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I awoke and saw that life was service. I acted and behold, service was joy.” "Love does not claim possession, but gives freedom" ― Rabindranath Tagore Stuff for New Growers Where new growers should start: RogerRabbit's PF Tek video How it Should and Shouldn't Look My Simplified Bulk Growing My OJ Shroom Tek
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: 2bittoker]
#19261191 - 12/11/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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regardless of your fruits for a first grow let me say a job well done
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Tmethyl]
#19261199 - 12/11/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Upon closer inspection I would conclude this as being from over misting, the stipes were fully developing and had a ways to go, the caps were very immature when opening up to sporulate(a last resort, triggered by being too wet)
I'm basing this completely off experience. This is my own grow which was over misted and resulted in the same way as yours has. (later flushes were very well)
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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cronicr



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Tmethyl]
#19261236 - 12/11/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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what type of fc ya got?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Camtaro420
Birdman



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19261251 - 12/11/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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little mushrooms = potent trips.
Eat them, that will make you happy =)
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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There are so many little pins, barely showing. How to i go about harvesting these trays?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Quote:
Vis0nairee said: There are so many little pins, barely showing. How to i go about harvesting these trays?
scissors or a knife
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19261271 - 12/11/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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a SGFC made following RR's tek to the T.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Loc: Van Isle
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Quote:
Vis0nairee said: a SGFC made following RR's tek to the T.
 Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
Vis0nairee said: There are so many little pins, barely showing. How to i go about harvesting these trays?
scissors or a knife
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Tmethyl]
#19261280 - 12/11/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tmethyl said: Upon closer inspection I would conclude this as being from over misting, the stipes were fully developing and had a ways to go, the caps were very immature when opening up to sporulate(a last resort, triggered by being too wet)
I'm basing this completely off experience. This is my own grow which was over misted and resulted in the same way as yours has. (later flushes were very well)

So you think if a harvest these and mist less on the next flushes i will have larger fruits?
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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Quote:
Camtaro420 said: little mushrooms = potent trips.
Eat them, that will make you happy =)
seriously considering it. im sad right now lol.
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Camtaro420
Birdman



Registered: 11/25/13
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Quote:
Vis0nairee said:
Quote:
Camtaro420 said: little mushrooms = potent trips.
Eat them, that will make you happy =)
seriously considering it. im sad right now lol.
Nothing at all to be sad about I would be ecstatic to have some clean looking shrooms to try out like that for my first time, so far I have only grown bacteria!
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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honestly those are probly pretty dense and as i said above it's still a job well done
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19261357 - 12/11/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea they're pretty nice, short and stout but there's plenty of them. Just cut them close to the base and try not to fuck the substrate up at all. alternatively you can twist and pull but cutting is usually more neat and less damaging.
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Mosey3012



Registered: 12/12/12
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Tmethyl]
#19261407 - 12/11/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tmethyl said: Upon closer inspection I would conclude this as being from over misting, the stipes were fully developing and had a ways to go, the caps were very immature when opening up to sporulate(a last resort, triggered by being too wet)
I'm basing this completely off experience. This is my own grow which was over misted and resulted in the same way as yours has. (later flushes were very well)

I agree with you here but wouldnt you say that it might also be in part to having 2 much FAE as well? If they got 2 much FAE they wouldn't have ever had time to really hold much water resulting in longer thin stipes and small immature caps.
Just a passing thought though, correct me if Im wrong!
I'd put my trays like that in a mono if I were u. I'm doing them the exact same way and 2 trays fits a 66qt tub just perfectly Holds easily 98+% RH and no fanning our anything is really necessary. Set and wait... after making sure the FAE is at an appropriate level of course!
-------------------- "Each of these lives is the right one! Every path is the right path. Everything could have been anything else and it would have just as much meaning"
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Vis0nairee
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here are all 4 trays ATM:
 I guess that i just got carried away with the misting and fanning once i saw ALL THOSE PINS. Lesson learned...kinda. (how much is too much?)
After i get all the little mushrooms i can see off the cake, should let the entire cakes soak in running water to hydrate them?
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Vis0nairee
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Mosey3012]
#19261480 - 12/11/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mosey3012 said:
I'd put my trays like that in a mono if I were u. I'm doing them the exact same way and 2 trays fits a 66qt tub just perfectly Holds easily 98+% RH and no fanning our anything is really necessary. Set and wait... after making sure the FAE is at an appropriate level of course!
how many and how big are your polly fill holes in a 66qt tub? you think i could hydrate these cakes after this harvest and throw them in a mono tub for the next flushes?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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when you mist you should wait for the moisture to evaporate before misting again, dunk it for a couple hours fully submerged
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Vis0nairee
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so should i use a knife and cut them off as they mature. (there are so many small pins that havent matured)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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yep, i snip the caps off mine till the rest are ready
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19261555 - 12/11/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I dont have any extra casing substrate. so i wont be able to patch any holes. will this a major problem?
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Tmethyl]
#19261561 - 12/11/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tmethyl said: Upon closer inspection I would conclude this as being from over misting, the stipes were fully developing and had a ways to go, the caps were very immature when opening up to sporulate(a last resort, triggered by being too wet)
I'm basing this completely off experience. This is my own grow which was over misted and resulted in the same way as yours has. (later flushes were very well)

Good to see you back in cultivation, Tmethyl. You were missed.
Just to get you back in the swing of things, I think I'll disagree with you immediately. While your picture is clearly of overmisted fruits, OP's are lacking a veil completely and the ones in your picture (and ones I've over-misted as well) still have one that just ruptures prematurely. My money's on genetics, and I think OP should wait until he sees spores.
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Vis0nairee
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Psilicon]
#19261593 - 12/11/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said: Good to see you back in cultivation, Tmethyl. You were missed.
Just to get you back in the swing of things, I think I'll disagree with you immediately. While your picture is clearly of overmisted fruits, OP's are lacking a veil completely and the ones in your picture (and ones I've over-misted as well) still have one that just ruptures prematurely. My money's on genetics, and I think OP should wait until he sees spores.
The thing is, a lot of the mushrooms appeared to emerge from the casing layer without a viel. As seen in this pic from 2 days ago:

So idk if i should harvest these little guys or wait...
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Vis0nairee
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If i was OVER MISTING so much than why wouldnt ANY of the pins be rotten?
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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It's actually kind of tough to make your fruits rot.
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Clever_You
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Psilicon]
#19261880 - 12/11/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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almost look like a PE's in a way...very nice first grow
Edited by Clever_You (12/11/13 08:28 PM)
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SamhainJ
I wanna rock out, in my dreams

Registered: 05/16/04
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I had a recent casing that had 200+ shrooms on the first flush.. about 30 of em turned out like this and did not get any bigger...
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cArcace-x
YeAh!!


Registered: 10/17/13
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Loc: The Simulator
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: SamhainJ]
#19261975 - 12/11/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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nice first grow bro!
--------------------
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19262479 - 12/11/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Okay guys, Heres the plan:
Harvest EVERYTHING tomorrow Hydrate with distilled water and a little h202 in trays. Refrigerate over night. Remove any small pins that may be left. (had an awesome pinset ) Remove casing "cake" from tray and place each in their own mini mono tub w/ a couple polyfil holes.
Too bad this first flush didnt work out too well ... but i have my fingers crossed for their 2nd and 3rd flushes. Hopefully the monotub will eliminate the over misting issues.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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use tap not distilled and no h202 or fridge, and only remove the pins if there aborts, that might be your second flush and dunk times will very depending on your sub mix, there really would be no need to remove them from the trays either, just toss the trays inside
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19262517 - 12/11/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19262593 - 12/11/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: use tap not distilled and no h202 or fridge, and only remove the pins if there aborts, that might be your second flush and dunk times will very depending on your sub mix, there really would be no need to remove them from the trays either, just toss the trays inside
Thanks a lot Cronicr, advice taken
Quote:
cronicr said: trays in a mono
AWESOME!
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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TheWiz
Happy Little Shroom



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19262652 - 12/11/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would say leave them alone for a bit. I've had one mushroom pop out of a cake with no veil, open like the ones pictured, and continue growing to a normal size.
-------------------- I'd hit it.
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happygolucky
exstatik
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: TheWiz]
#19262899 - 12/11/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I notice people on here saying to use tap water for everything. Is there anything wrong with using filtered rain water? I mean, you guys do know what kind of shit is in tap water don't you?
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Camtaro420
Birdman



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Quote:
happygolucky said: I notice people on here saying to use tap water for everything. Is there anything wrong with using filtered rain water? I mean, you guys do know what kind of shit is in tap water don't you?
It's because tap water is filled with the perfect nutrients needed for the mushroom growth. other water sources don't and end up giving you malnourished cakes.
Now this doesn't mean you can't sterilize/purify it by boiling and cooling it first, because yeah there is some gross stuff in there.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


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Quote:
happygolucky said: I notice people on here saying to use tap water for everything. Is there anything wrong with using filtered rain water? I mean, you guys do know what kind of shit is in tap water don't you?
Yep. And I've seen stuff in tap water that would make your blood curdle. But mushrooms grow on horse shit, and as another member above mentioned, tap water has a lot of minerals that are easily available.
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happygolucky
exstatik
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Psilicon]
#19263102 - 12/11/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mushrooms love fluoride, chlorine, arsenic, pharmaceuticals, and the plethora of other known toxins in tap water?
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Quote:
happygolucky said: Mushrooms love fluoride, chlorine, arsenic, pharmaceuticals, and the plethora of other known toxins in tap water?
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
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Loc: Milky way
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: PussyFart]
#19263196 - 12/11/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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For the record distilled water is only really good for spore syringes and filling up a humidifier.
distilled water is so lacking in dissolved ions that it will rob them from your substrates. It's actually quite like a solvent, it's going to leech out nutrients from anything you use it on.
h2o2 only damages healthy mycelium
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happygolucky
exstatik
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I'll give them what I drink. Rain water filtered through a berkey.
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ghostshadow422
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I just had that issue with some of my cakes, I actually posted a thread under "weird pins is this normal" I just let them grow and they got monstrous, 62 grams wet weight of a single half pint wide mouth brf cake, on the next flush there was a mixture of those weird open caps and regular closed, so I would just let them keep growing. like above post stated, I waited till the caps started to have a brown stripe ( I assuming they were about to drop spores ) and then picked them. what vendor? I wonder if they were from same place. mine were from a shroomery sponsor, they were huatla type. I'm assuming just mutant genetics
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ghostshadow422
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I was and am misting with Poland spring water, so don't think tap water was an issue they grew bigger than this pic, I didn't retake a picture when they were finished, these were the pics I posted when I was asking, is this normal? I wouldn't pick them, just let them grow till they are about to drop spores like earlier post stated
Edited by ghostshadow422 (12/11/13 11:10 PM)
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2bittoker
Resident PMP Advocate


Registered: 03/09/13
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Quote:
ghostshadow422 said:

I was and am misting with Poland spring water, so don't think tap water was an issue they grew bigger than this pic, I didn't retake a picture when they were finished, these were the pics I posted when I was asking, is this normal? I wouldn't pick them, just let them grow till they are about to drop spores like earlier post stated
Look at the mycelium bruising. The mycelium is distressed. How often are you misting and are you misting till the cakes glisten? If so, are you providing adequate time between mistings for evaporation?
-------------------- “I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I awoke and saw that life was service. I acted and behold, service was joy.” "Love does not claim possession, but gives freedom" ― Rabindranath Tagore Stuff for New Growers Where new growers should start: RogerRabbit's PF Tek video How it Should and Shouldn't Look My Simplified Bulk Growing My OJ Shroom Tek
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ghostshadow422
Stranger



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: 2bittoker]
#19266674 - 12/12/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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was misting fanning 3-4 times a day, once when I wake up, go to sleep and a couple times in between. I was worried bout the weird shrooms so I was picking them up a lot.
Edited by ghostshadow422 (12/12/13 04:46 PM)
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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Harvested two trays. 215 grams fresh.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



Registered: 12/02/13
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I'm giing to munch 70 grams fresh tonight
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Quote:
Vis0nairee said: I'm giing to munch 70 grams fresh tonight 
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19267509 - 12/12/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Vis0nairee said: I'm giing to munch 70 grams fresh tonight 

That's fuckin awesome.
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CricketMan
Registered: 11/07/13
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Very similar looking things going on with this grow.
Edited by CricketMan (07/18/17 07:18 PM)
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CricketMan
Registered: 11/07/13
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Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Vis0nairee said: I'm giing to munch 70 grams fresh tonight 
Did they work ?!
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1down5up
Social Ninja


Registered: 11/04/13
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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It's because tap water is filled with the perfect nutrients needed for the mushroom growth. other water sources don't and end up giving you malnourished cakes.
Now this doesn't mean you can't sterilize/purify it by boiling and cooling it first, because yeah there is some gross stuff in there.
I don't think you can purify water that way. Only the chemicals in a gaseous state, and organic material can be removed/killed that way. Fluoride and other salts cannot be removed that way. I know that i used to leave tap water sit for 24 hours uncovered to remove the chlorine/chloride (it would evaporate off as gas) before i watered my clones. It didn't much matter to them, because the water was going in soil, and had all kinds of buffers to contend with.
I thought that the nourishment for cakes was based on the substrate you used, and not the water. If the water was responsible for the quality of nutrients, why wouldn't we use fertilizer in the water, instead of hpoo(or some other form of food) in the substrate. It would almost be like growing hydroponic mushrooms where the sub didn't matter, as long as you gave them what they needed through water. Do mushrooms absorb nutrients through the cap and stems, or does the mycelium do all the work?
-------------------- ~~Everything is relative~~ A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies - RR says - EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes - Frank's list of goodies - Cronicr's Goodies No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life. J.L.
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



Registered: 12/02/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Hell yeah! I ended up eating 60 grams fresh to be cautious. Glad i ate that much, was trippin pretty hard!
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CricketMan
Registered: 11/07/13
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Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Vis0nairee said: Hell yeah! I ended up eating 60 grams fresh to be cautious. Glad i ate that much, was trippin pretty hard! 
YES YES - WAY TO GO!
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



Registered: 12/02/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Thanks man! Im happy with successfully cultivating my own fruits to eat. Getting ready for my first monotub grow now!
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
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Quote:
Vis0nairee said: Thanks man! Im happy with successfully cultivating my own fruits to eat. Getting ready for my first monotub grow now!
This is the kind of post we all like to see.
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Vis0nairee
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Registered: 12/02/13
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: Psilicon]
#19344391 - 12/30/13 12:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey guys, wanted to give an update, possibly the last for this grow. BIG plans in the future now that I have this first grow under my belt.
Soooo, After the first flush I rehydrated the substrate by submerging trays in in cool tap water and left to soak for about 4 hours...then drained.
I removed the substrate from the trays and placed each "substrate cake" in a clean 4 gallon mini mono, sealed it up with two layers of plastic wrap and duck tape.
The second and third flushes turned out WAYYY better in terms of fruit size and overall health due to their new environment in the monos.
5oz cracker dry so far
I havent seen any sign of contam issues yet, but these two tubs are on their 4th flush:
 Im wondering if I should I just ditch these after I harvest this 4th.flush. Just to know that I haven't had any major contam problems in my work area.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to check out the grow and give their feedback.
One last thing! Cronicr..... It was him who gave me the inspiration to go from the SGFC to a mono setup.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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if it doesn't contam let it go! or put it outside and burry it for future fun!
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



Registered: 12/02/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19344440 - 12/30/13 01:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: if it doesn't contam let it go! or put it outside and burry it for future fun!
Burying would be my first choice for sure if I had the means, but i live in the city :/ I guess ill flush them and go for a fifth. I will probably call it quits after that either way.
I have a some other projects in the works. i like this busy feeling
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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not a better feeling in this hobby
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Vis0nairee
Stranger



Registered: 12/02/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: WTF! No VEIL?! PICS [Re: cronicr]
#19345841 - 12/30/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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4th flush from one of the tubs:
 173 grams fresh
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