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theonceandfuture
Young Man of the Woods
Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 41
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Reishi : to supplement or not?
#19259956 - 12/11/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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There seems to be varying opinions on weather or not reishi sawdust blocks benefit from supplementation. When I grew them years ago I used the standard 10-15% wheat bran mix, same as with our shiitake, king trumpet, enoki, and miatake.
I am just getting back into commercial cultivation after a long break and I see that many people are not supplementing reishi at all anymore. It makes some sense, as it is just about the quickest colonizer around, but I worry about loss of yield.
I'm just wondering if a few people could share their opinions on weather or not(and what amounts) to supplement reishi?
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SkysTheLimit
A curious mind


Registered: 07/28/13
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Lol since there's no replys, meaning no one has done this experiment before, maybe you could do this experiment and compare how the same strain of reish performs on supplemented and unsupplemented blocks.
Then you can report back and help future posters with the same question
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theonceandfuture
Young Man of the Woods
Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 41
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: SkysTheLimit]
#19261853 - 12/11/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SkysTheLimit said: Lol since there's no replys, meaning no one has done this experiment before, maybe you could do this experiment and compare how the same strain of reish performs on supplemented and unsupplemented blocks.
Then you can report back and help future posters with the same question 
Heh, I'm cooking up the bags tonight. 20 10% bran and 20 with nothing. Should know in a month or two...
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
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I'll be a little ahead of you, I've got some side by side bags going right now. ~20% vs. no supplementation. They're about half colonized. I'll let you know!
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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SkysTheLimit
A curious mind


Registered: 07/28/13
Posts: 168
Loc:
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: Forrester]
#19330624 - 12/26/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey forrester, anything on colonization speeds between the two? Cheers
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: SkysTheLimit]
#19330673 - 12/26/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah it's funny, long story...
The supplemented bag was one of my first tries with bran, period, so it ended up with too much moisture. That, and what I failed to mention was I didn't sterilize it, only pasteurized (another experiment). Half way through, I was worried the bottom wouldn't colonize AT ALL, so I smashed up the whole bag to re-distribute the moisture. Parts didn't break up and I quickly realized this was a bad idea... Regardless, it went on to finish colonizing, except the very bottom which I finally sprayed a bunch of water in the bag to rinse out the un-colonized parts. Smelled like rotton dead fish at that point.
Nevertheless, it went on to start fruiting SOONER than it's corresponding, non-supplemented bag. They're both about even now, despite the fact that one smells like nasty vag.  No other contamination. I think the reishi is feeding on the bacteria.
I'll post some pics when the fruits grow a little more.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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SkysTheLimit
A curious mind


Registered: 07/28/13
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: Forrester]
#19330757 - 12/26/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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eh.. lol i see, that's pretty interesting, so your experiment suggests supplementation won't do too much for reishi?
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: SkysTheLimit]
#19331926 - 12/27/13 06:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think it's way too early to tell. I'll have to run another experiment where I sterilize it too and it doesn't get all kinds of bacteria/yeast or whatever, might be throwing off the experiment
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Neller
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Registered: 10/18/13
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Loc: kentucky
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: Forrester]
#19334680 - 12/27/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What is your spawn ratio for the non-supplemented bags. I'm interested in doing the high spawn rate to avoid sterilization, but how high is high?
-------------------- "If there’s one generational difference I notice between my parents’ generation and mine, is that my generation values time over money. And not because we’re lazy either, but because we’re not willing to trade time with the people we love most for a gold watch at retirement." -BRETT Reaching for heaven is what I'm on earth to do.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
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Loc: Northeast USA
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: Neller]
#19334789 - 12/27/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Neller said: What is your spawn ratio for the non-supplemented bags. I'm interested in doing the high spawn rate to avoid sterilization, but how high is high? 
That's a good question. I grow on a pretty small scale, and don't sterilize bags, so I can afford to supplement with high spawn rates instead of bran. Pretty much everything I grow I spawn a whole quart of grain per bag to pasteurized, unsupplemented fuel pellets.
If you ask anyone who grows mushrooms for a living this is considered a very high spawn ratio (and a waste of grain). BUT, most of them supplement with bran and sterilize, that's why they use so little spawn. Bran is much cheaper. The only supplementation I'm going to get in most cases comes from my spawn, so I do a whole quart. If you want to highly supplement some reishi and can afford a couple bucks in grain, go ahead and use more if you want. Couple quarts spawn in a bag would be pretty high supplementation rate I believe.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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john-hai
oyster lover



Registered: 05/11/11
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: Forrester]
#19335377 - 12/28/13 02:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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in my short time of growing reishi, I notice when you supplement your block they take longer to fruit. however the block seem to fruit for longer and so you get more flushes. remember I have only been growing reishi for a short time. hope this help.
john
-------------------- 3 rules i use to grow mushroom #1 local material #2 recycle when possible #3 make it simple
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Versicolor
♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖



Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 2,268
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: john-hai]
#19335678 - 12/28/13 05:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Grain is actuall cheaper than bran here, so that's definetly a method I'd be interested in for my shiitake and reishi blocks.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 25 days, 10 hours
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: Versicolor]
#19336184 - 12/28/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Versicolor said: Grain is actuall cheaper than bran here, so that's definetly a method I'd be interested in for my shiitake and reishi blocks.
Good point, I guess it does depend on what grain we're talking about and what your sources are.
I think it works great for shiitake. I've found one quart per block to be right on the borderline of being over-supplemented (I'll get a few mutants but not too many). So it ends up about perfect, no need to add bran and mess with sterilizing, and you can spawn right in open air.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: Forrester]
#19336668 - 12/28/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here's an update - on the left is the supplemented pasteurized block, on the right the unsupplemented block.

As you can see the supplemented is just a few days ahead of the other but they both are off to a good start.
The amazing thing though - that awful smell is completely gone. Not a trace of it left. Reishi ate all the bacteria and it smells like fresh delicious mushrooms now.  Unbelievable. I mean it was BAD.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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forrest



Registered: 11/16/12
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Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: Forrester]
#19336701 - 12/28/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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interesting, also that the unsupplemented looks more colonised but fruits a bit later.
at what temp. are you growing them?
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mrtumnas
Oyster-licious



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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: forrest]
#19336740 - 12/28/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think it makes sense that the contam bags fruited earlier. I've noticed that is often the case. My theory is the stress of the competing organisms cause them to force fruit earlier as a survival mechanism. Like tomatoes do, etc. Could be wrong but I see it all the time with contaminated bags..
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: mrtumnas]
#19336977 - 12/28/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i think it's easier in the long run to just add boiling water to fuel pellets, and inoculate when cool. that said I'm a hypocrite, cause that's not what I do
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: forrest]
#19337202 - 12/28/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
forrest said: interesting, also that the unsupplemented looks more colonised but fruits a bit later.
at what temp. are you growing them?
Yeah it does look different, some of that is from when I rinsed it, it kinda washed off some of the outer mycelium, but it wasn't nearly as thick and white to begin with either, not sure why?
These are at about 68-70F, cooler in the night. I put them on top of a dresser where the heat vent is pointed so they get a little extra heat blown towards them when it turns on. They still don't seem to do nearly as well as they do in the summer when they stay warmer.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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theonceandfuture
Young Man of the Woods
Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 41
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Reishi : to supplement or not? [Re: Forrester]
#19340749 - 12/29/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'll try to throw some pictures up in the next couple days, but even at this early stage it appears the supplemented bags are out performing the non-sup'd. They are clearly colonizing faster; some of the non-sup'd bags take 5-7 days longer to completely colonize. The supplemented bags are also forming primordia sooner, often before the 'nons' have even finished colonizing. I am very interested to see what the yields look like.
I don't think the spawn ratio question was directed at me, but FYI I am using anywhere from 1:5 - 1:9. Such a large spread because I'm experimenting also with different sized blocks, anywhere from 2.5lbs to 6lbs.
I have so many different bags of different sizes, with different rates of supp and even different types of supplements it's all getting a little messy, but I'll start trying to get some pictures up soon to try to help deliver some clarity on this question.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
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^^^ Thanks for posting results!
I'll be very interested in what you find to be the ideal substrate size and supplementation/spawn rate. I unfortunately do not have the space to do so many different experiments, so your information is very helpful
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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