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OfflineAllisterem
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Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 83
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
    #19249551 - 12/09/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Allisterem said:
Awesome, thanks for sharing.  Nothing is as exhilirating as stepping away from the safety of all you know to throw yourself into the wilderness of the world and say "I will explore and I will thrive"





This quote is not about having adventures and leaving home for the first time. It's about facing impermanence and that is something much easier said than ever done.  It's not a holiday at adventureland.  It's facing our personal emptiness and seeing how we have become culture and without it we have no idea what is there.  Although stated badly that's my 2 cents.  Once you see through the veil you have no props or friends or anything to hold onto. Not even a self that survives. Nothing you have ever done seems to make any sense except as a fabricated lie to help you sleep at night.


Want to see what I'm talking about?  Read Ernest Becker's Denial of Death.




I didn't miss the message, my reply was poorly written.  Thank you for the suggestion, I will look into that read.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Allisterem]
    #19249764 - 12/09/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah I wasn't sure but I made that reply anyway more to clarify in general. 
That book wrecked my life.  Read it at your own risk. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHeartAndMind
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
    #19249852 - 12/09/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hey Icelander, can you sum up Denial of Death in few sentences?
It seems like another belief to follow and live by, no?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: HeartAndMind]
    #19249998 - 12/09/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

just try living by it. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHeartAndMind
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
    #19250011 - 12/09/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why:lol:
It seems terrible.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
    #19250137 - 12/09/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
just try living by it. :haha:




Death can come at any minute.



--------------------


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Offlineabsols
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Registered: 11/10/13
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19250409 - 12/09/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
just try living by it. :haha:




Death can come at any minute.






it is a funny image but it is a lie.. created for powers image being all of any being.. as if you can be happy if you have a duck in your bathroom .. you will become out of duck totem, you .. so for everyone to feel happy too in knowing that you are never you or that you don't exist so else can never exist so they can invent to exist better by seeing what cant be ..

it is all a market of abuse





Edited by absols (12/09/13 02:26 PM)


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OfflineSse
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: absols]
    #19250792 - 12/09/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

are you sure?




--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Sse]
    #19251270 - 12/09/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It is not a matter of simple reflection about his early family life, or even bringing to consciousness some of the most distasteful events of his childhood, or least of all a hard, rational scrutiny of one's motives.  It is... going through hell of a lonely and racking rebirth where one throws off the lendings of culture, the costumes that fit us for life's roles, the masks and panoplies of our standardized heroisms, to stand alone and nude facing the howling elements as... a trembling animal element,... the disintegration of the self-esteem that sustains one's character... The question of personality growth and change, if it is deep-going and authentic, is usually if one will end in madness or suicide or whether one will, somehow, be able to marshall the strength to take the first few steps in a strange world. -Ernest Becker

??






I think it's a neat quote. I bounce somewhat between making the most out of a hopeless situation and being swallowed by its overpowering presence. I'd put myself closer to madness than suicide. I think enduring in the shadow of death is always a madness of sorts. Just look at the man who broke and then sawed his own arm off with the knife on his multi-tool after being pinned by rocks (Aron Ralston). Madness. Any movement towards survival is this same madness in a lesser form. It is a will to survive in the face of what is guaranteed to be full of trials and tribulations with an end result of death. And that's putting it mildly.

All the same it's a relative experience. Each of us is tasked with determining how much of our own madness we can endure. No matter where you go, there you are.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibler72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
    #19251497 - 12/09/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yeah I wasn't sure but I made that reply anyway more to clarify in general. 
That book wrecked my life.  Read it at your own risk. :satansmoking:




It wrecked your life? :confused: Sorry to hear it had that effect on you.

I'd recommend the book still. It's one of my favorites. :heart: It gets right at the heart of the human condition imo.


--------------------
Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: r72rock]
    #19251515 - 12/09/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You think you're sorry. :lol:

Actually my life was already wrecked but I wasn't fully conscious of it or knew why exactly.  Thanks O'Becker. :hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
    #19251895 - 12/09/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think it wrecked your life as much as it 'wrecked' my own. From what I can tell, it's pushed you toward a deeper and more realistic understanding of your being a rotting meat bag in this weirdness that is being alive. I make this assumption based on your current signature as well... As it reflects a peace being sought or found in the emptiness, for a lack of better words.

I was beginning to draw very similar conclusions to Becker's before this forum introduced me to his works.
To be honest, it was a breath of fresh air and made me feel like my thoughts were not so unique and fringe-y, which to some I guess would be a disappointment, but for myself was a huge relief as I no longer thought I may have the potential burden of having to articulate these observations to the world. :lol:

I wrote this on a whim yesterday, the very nature of what this discussion happens to be about was its muse...

"Prepackaged tasks crafted collectively as masks to hide our horrified expressions of discomfort born of directionless paths, nothing bitter about this, just emptiness that culture has defended us against, death will teach us to forget ourselves once on the other side of the fence..."


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19251984 - 12/09/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We'll if you don't think that you might be wrong.  That signature is a hope for something rather than something I'm able to live with any degree of force.

It sure sounds nice though.  I just altered it a bit and the first line now is inspired by a Procol Harum album .


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
    #19252395 - 12/09/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

In what way did it make your life a wreck if you don't mind my asking?

Was it a proverbial opening of Pandora's box that challenged so deeply the validity of your paradigm that it resulted in disillusionment strong enough to upset the everyday patterns of your existence, leaving you lost, naked and afraid?


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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Offlineabsols
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19253800 - 12/10/13 02:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

what I hate the most, is the way to make victims act in terms of buying their beings of worse done on them ..

you cannot talk about negative things objectively, they don't exist

so when you are negative in constant way of being, it is more the fact that it is not you, and surely you know that, why do buy you there and try desperately to sound deep ??? why do you lie ??


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Offlineabsols
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19253827 - 12/10/13 03:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:
In what way did it make your life a wreck if you don't mind my asking?

Was it a proverbial opening of Pandora's box that challenged so deeply the validity of your paradigm that it resulted in disillusionment strong enough to upset the everyday patterns of your existence, leaving you lost, naked and afraid?




if you don't mind me asking.. how did you see Icelander that way, the poster you know, a naked trembling awareness frightened of realizing being inferior and weak ??? why don't you imagine that about yourself ?? because he said an honest word about humans condition ?? then it became him asking you to feel secure to climb on his back as if he is not protected by powers or pointed to all being the slave condition and you the boss ones maybe ??

im joking of course.. :goodluck:  but how can you talk like that to another ??  :takingnotes:


Edited by absols (12/10/13 03:21 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19254149 - 12/10/13 07:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:
In what way did it make your life a wreck if you don't mind my asking?

Was it a proverbial opening of Pandora's box that challenged so deeply the validity of your paradigm that it resulted in disillusionment strong enough to upset the everyday patterns of your existence, leaving you lost, naked and afraid?




yup.  Well I've always been afraid due to a very insecure childhood but I had developed a few nicely protective shields that were however slowly eroding. Becker showed me how everything is a shield and that was the end of those and of course being be me I tried to use that knowledge as a shield dropping everything else.  Doesn't work that well so far. :lol:

Having said that I think progress is being made.  I seem to have much less active DA then in my recent past.  I seem more open to life being possibly meaningless,  the "I" that I identify being nothing more than a convenient construct and my imminent demise. 


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/10/13 07:05 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: absols]
    #19254157 - 12/10/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

absols said:
Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:
In what way did it make your life a wreck if you don't mind my asking?

Was it a proverbial opening of Pandora's box that challenged so deeply the validity of your paradigm that it resulted in disillusionment strong enough to upset the everyday patterns of your existence, leaving you lost, naked and afraid?




if you don't mind me asking.. how did you see Icelander that way, the poster you know, a naked trembling awareness frightened of realizing being inferior and weak ??? why don't you imagine that about yourself ?? because he said an honest word about humans condition ?? then it became him asking you to feel secure to climb on his back as if he is not protected by powers or pointed to all being the slave condition and you the boss ones maybe ??

im joking of course.. :goodluck:  but how can you talk like that to another ??  :takingnotes:





I really don't think he sees me as being inferior and weak.  That's my job. :lol:

He's just curious as there might be something in my situation that could apply and help him deal with his situation. I'd ask the same questions if I didn't know the answers.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
    #19254159 - 12/10/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Knowledge comes with death's release.

Quicksand.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlineabsols
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
    #19254187 - 12/10/13 07:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:


I really don't think he sees me as being inferior and weak.  That's my job. :lol:

He's just curious as there might be something in my situation that could apply and help him deal with his situation. I'd ask the same questions if I didn't know the answers.




I was only trying to say something originally right very relatively, it is of freedom  being when we must stay still, so hours pass faster when the being is free, less boring I guess..:smile:


Edited by absols (12/10/13 07:35 AM)


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