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InvisibleSimplepowa
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Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache
    #19249535 - 12/09/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

A Pennsylvania grandmother was sent to prison Friday after admitting to killing her toddler granddaughter with an overdose of morphine.

Penny Kochel, of Heidelberg Township, was sentenced to two to 23 months in prison after copping to involuntary manslaughter as part of a plea deal with prosecutors.

The 53-year-old first found herself in trouble in May 2009 after giving one-year-old Leanna McEntee morphine to ease teething pain and originally faced a third-degree murder charge.

‘I often wish I could trade places with her and that everything would be all right,’ the still-grieving granny said in court before her sentencing, according to the Reading Eagle.

She initially claimed she gave the baby a teething tablet and rubbed tequila on her gums to numb the pain, according to reports, but toxicology tests revealed morphine in the baby’s system.

‘Leanna was my beautiful angel,’ Ms Kochel added. ‘I would never have done anything to her that I thought would hurt or kill her.’

The judge offered her condolences and even agreed with Ms Kochel.

‘Obviously, there was no intention to hurt the child,’ added before handing down the sentence with two additional years of probation.

The sentence was agreed to beforehand by authorities and Ms Kochel’s lawyer, according to the Eagle.

The baby’s visibly upset parents were in the courtroom for the sentencing, according to the Eagle. They declined to comment.

Associated Press
December 6, 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519661/Grandmother-jailed-killing-granddaughter-giving-morphine-toothache.html


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Offlineallseeingike
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: Simplepowa]
    #19249834 - 12/09/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

this is pretty sad but that was a stupid fucking decision on the grandmothers behalf


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InvisibleP-O
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: allseeingike]
    #19249995 - 12/09/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

very sad story


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OfflineSoundScape
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: Simplepowa] * 2
    #19250373 - 12/09/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The fact that we live in a world where someone would consider no problem with giving morphine to a toddler without medical supervision just goes to speak volumes about how uneducated the general public is regarding drugs even these days. What a sad fucking story.


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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: SoundScape]
    #19250618 - 12/09/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sad and very ingnotant of the grandmother. I bet she's feeling intense grief and regret for accidentally killing her grand daughter but I think she desearves a year in jail. She probably thought oh one of these  morphine pills don't to anything to me, it's probably fine to give just one to my grand daughter. She probably didn't know about tolerance and kids, esspecially toddlers, having less enzymes than adults that break down drugs. Im sure it was an accident.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: Simplepowa]
    #19251710 - 12/09/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simplepowa said:
A Pennsylvania grandmother was sent to prison Friday after admitting to killing her toddler granddaughter with an overdose of morphine.

Penny Kochel, of Heidelberg Township, was sentenced to two to 23 months in prison after copping to involuntary manslaughter as part of a plea deal with prosecutors.

The 53-year-old first found herself in trouble in May 2009 after giving one-year-old Leanna McEntee morphine to ease teething pain and originally faced a third-degree murder charge.

‘I often wish I could trade places with her and that everything would be all right,’ the still-grieving granny said in court before her sentencing, according to the Reading Eagle.

She initially claimed she gave the baby a teething tablet and rubbed tequila on her gums to numb the pain, according to reports, but toxicology tests revealed morphine in the baby’s system.

‘Leanna was my beautiful angel,’ Ms Kochel added. ‘I would never have done anything to her that I thought would hurt or kill her.’

The judge offered her condolences and even agreed with Ms Kochel.

‘Obviously, there was no intention to hurt the child,’ added before handing down the sentence with two additional years of probation.

The sentence was agreed to beforehand by authorities and Ms Kochel’s lawyer, according to the Eagle.

The baby’s visibly upset parents were in the courtroom for the sentencing, according to the Eagle. They declined to comment.

Associated Press
December 6, 2013
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519661/Grandmother-jailed-killing-granddaughter-giving-morphine-toothache.html




that bitch is EXTREMELY lucky man. I can't imagine getting a possible only two month maximum 23 month charge for something like that. COMPLETE negligence, you don't give a toddler morphine, certainly not for a tooth ache, and certainly not if you aren't a qualified doctor. If a toddler comes out of surgery and a qualified doctor gives a toddler a TINY bit of morphine as a licensed practitioner they accept the risk of whatever will happen to that child and even AT THAT since the child can't speak or describe what it's going through they almost certainly will give it such a small amount it might not even help with the pain.

This grandmother could be doing life in prison wow lucky person to be getting such a short sentence


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OfflineAt My Peak
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: imachavel]
    #19254045 - 12/10/13 06:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

she shouldve just given me the morphine instead


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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: SoundScape]
    #19254172 - 12/10/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm curious exactly how much morphine she gave the baby, and how it was administered.



Quote:

SoundScape said:
The fact that we live in a world where someone would consider no problem with giving morphine to a toddler without medical supervision just goes to speak volumes about how uneducated the general public is regarding drugs even these days. What a sad fucking story.







You do have a fair point. And this is the kind of thing I'd probably never consider unless I were in an emergency situation where proper medical care could not be reached. But to be fair:  Over a generation ago, way back in the day, they used to put not only morphine, but also heroin in patent medications, which were often given to children.


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InvisibleSimplepowa
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #19254463 - 12/10/13 09:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Heroin is just a pro drug to morphine, like codeine, so I don't see a problem using it with medical supervision.

Back in the time I don't think there were much supervision though, lots of people selling mixture of chemicals to make people feels better and that's it, but currently there is a big double standard concerning heroin imo.

This molecule doesn't bind anywhere on your receptors, but only when it is converted to morphine it will get its pharmacological proprieties.

Heroin is entirely converted to morphine with the first-pass metabolism when you give an oral dose, with complete deacetylation when it is orally ingested (goes by the the liver and the metabolic enzymes have fun with it) meaning that it doesn't have the time to reach the brain in the form of heroin, but only morphine.

This:
Quote:

Over a generation ago, way back in the day, they used to put not only morphine, but also heroin in patent medications, which were often given to children.




Seems a bit to me like spreading fear but maybe I am interpreting wrong though. People back in the day took their medication mostly by oral means when they were at home, a bit like the people today in fact, so no stress with heroin being in the mixture or not.

:thumbup:

What I would have feared though is the fact that back in the time, ingredients were not necessary listed on the bottle, doses were unknown because it was a secret mixture, and people didn't knew much about pharmacology, so mix of stimulant and depressant (cocaine in a morphine mixture) would happen a lot.


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Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

---

Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

---

Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."


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OfflinePurpleHaze147
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: Simplepowa]
    #19258428 - 12/11/13 01:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simplepowa said:
Heroin is just a pro drug to morphine, like codeine



Well if u wanna get technical, no diacetylmorphine (heroin) is not a pro drug to morphine. Its an active drug all on its own and its active metabolite is 6-acetylmorphine. It does break down into morphine eventually but its certainly not a pro drug of morphine


Edited by PurpleHaze147 (12/11/13 01:06 AM)


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OfflineAt My Peak
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: PurpleHaze147]
    #19258714 - 12/11/13 04:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PurpleHaze147 said:
Quote:

Simplepowa said:
Heroin is just a pro drug to morphine, like codeine



Well if u wanna get technical, no diacetylmorphine (heroin) is not a pro drug to morphine. Its an active drug all on its own and its active metabolite is 6-acetylmorphine. It does break down into morphine eventually but its certainly not a pro drug of morphine




no, heroin is 3,6 diacetylmorphine.
youre thinking of 6,monoacetylmorphine that is produced when "black tar" heroin is made.

also im pretty sure 3MAM and 6MAM are prodrugs to morphine also. the acetyl bonds just help propel the morphine through the blood brain barrier.


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InvisibleSimplepowa
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: PurpleHaze147]
    #19259052 - 12/11/13 08:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PurpleHaze147 said:
Quote:

Simplepowa said:
Heroin is just a pro drug to morphine, like codeine



Well if u wanna get technical, no diacetylmorphine (heroin) is not a pro drug to morphine. Its an active drug all on its own and its active metabolite is 6-acetylmorphine. It does break down into morphine eventually but its certainly not a pro drug of morphine




Well if you want to get technical you have to know what you are talking about first.

Yes heroin is a pro drug to morphine. Do you know what a pro drug is? :shrug:

Second, the Kd of heroin is 0.11 mM compared to morphine that is 1.2 nM, so heroin do suck a lot when you compare the ligand/receptor binding affinity. Morphine as a  high affinity (high affinity is considered near 1 nM) and heroin not much at all, so lets consider it doesn't bind much, hence not much effect.

Plus, when heroin is taken orally, no heroin get to the brain, only morphine, because yes, heroin will get completely metabolized into morphine by enzymes in the liver. And even if it would go to the brain, the morphine would bind to the receptors because it has the lowest kd, not the heroin so it still wouldn't have an effect (because heroin would quickly be metabolized there too). Heroin has little effect on its own on receptors in the brain.

Anything else you want to add?

:thumbup:


--------------------
Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

---

Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

---

Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."


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InvisibleSimplepowa
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: At My Peak]
    #19259060 - 12/11/13 08:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

At My Peak said:
Quote:

PurpleHaze147 said:
Quote:

Simplepowa said:
Heroin is just a pro drug to morphine, like codeine



Well if u wanna get technical, no diacetylmorphine (heroin) is not a pro drug to morphine. Its an active drug all on its own and its active metabolite is 6-acetylmorphine. It does break down into morphine eventually but its certainly not a pro drug of morphine




no, heroin is 3,6 diacetylmorphine.
youre thinking of 6,monoacetylmorphine that is produced when "black tar" heroin is made.

also im pretty sure 3MAM and 6MAM are prodrugs to morphine also. the acetyl bonds just help propel the morphine through the blood brain barrier.




3-monoacetylmorphine is considered inactive.

6-monoacetylmorphine is active and is indeed a metabolite of heroin when the drug is injected (IV).

And yes the 2 acetyl groups make heroin much more fat soluble than morphine, making it cross the blood brain barrier really easily.


--------------------
Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

---

Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

---

Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."


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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: Simplepowa]
    #19259387 - 12/11/13 09:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Even if heroin is a prodrug for morphine, that does not necessarily make them equivalent.

If you've taken both drugs (as I unfortunately have, many times) you know that the effects are a bit different. In quantitative terms, if not qualitative.

Actually, it doesn't quite seem like just an issue of potency, either. Heroin has a reputation for being extraordinarily euphoric. And morphine (especially oral) has a reputation for not being terribly euphoric, for a strong opiate.


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InvisibleSimplepowa
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #19259536 - 12/11/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting...

:strokebeard:

Is heroin oral as much euphoric than IV? I guess not (I have no idea)... But if you look at the data, it shouldn't though.

Maybe heroin IV is more euphoric because it doesn't goes though the liver for the first pass metabolism (IV route skip that), but goes straight to the brain in form of heroin (diacetylmorphine) and is deacetyled there directly, meaning 100% bio availability (IV) = 100% morphine delivery in one shot straight to the brain's receptors (if you assume it is completely metabolized in morphine in the brain + it will have 6-monoacetylmorphine there too as an active metabolite from being metabolized in he brain as opposed to only morphine when taken orally) = stronger response = more euphoric?

I don't know just making a guess here.

Because morphine (any route) will give morphine more slowly to the brain's receptors as it is less fat soluble than heroin and has a harder time to cross the BBB, maybe that is why it is less euphoric...

If you look at wiki data:

Pharmacokinetic data
Bioavailability <35% (oral), 44–61% (inhaled)[2]
Protein binding 0% (morphine metabolite 35%)
Metabolism hepatic
Half-life <10 minutes[3]
Excretion 90% renal as glucuronides, rest biliary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

Heroin doesn't link to protein (transporters here I guess because it is pharmacokinetic data), 0%! Humm, I guess the euphoric rush come from the rapid delivery of lots of morphine straight to the brain then (by heroin)?

This is interesting, thanks for the input Cidney, if you have anything else to add that would be appreciated, this is really intriguing.

:crazy:


Edited by Simplepowa (12/11/13 10:50 AM)


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OfflineAt My Peak
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: Simplepowa]
    #19271727 - 12/13/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

aaaand thats how the cookie crumbles :cookiemonster:
:uppercut: :yeahthatsright:


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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: At My Peak]
    #19274591 - 12/14/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If a young man had given that baby morphine, best believe he would have got more than 2 months in jail.


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InvisibleEchro
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Re: Grandmother jailed for killing granddaughter after giving her morphine for toothache [Re: Magicman69]
    #19276126 - 12/14/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This is so fucked up. She didn't intend to kill her own flesh & blood but she has to spend two years in a cage to make up for it. What a bunch of bullshit. This just a tragic accident. The by-the-book bureaucracy of the criminal justice system is a joke.


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And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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