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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #19239741 - 12/07/13 07:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's pretty much it. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19243765 - 12/08/13 06:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You're dreaming.  As a martial arts teacher I learned quickly that women don't have the self confidence to defend themselves most of the time. By the time they retrieved the taser from a pocket and realized they really would have to use it, it would be far too late.

Very few people, men or women realize what self defense really entails.



What martial art do you teach? All the women in my jiu jitsu class can take a 200lb man, throw him to the ground, and force feed him dirt all afternoon.


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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Heffy]
    #19243792 - 12/08/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm retired many years but I taught Non-Classical Wing Chun in Seattle. http://www.newkungfu.com/#!

And I don't believe one bit of what you are saying. In a class with orchestrated exercises that is almost always true. On the street most women involved in martial arts won't pull it off. They will be eaten alive if there assailant is large and aggressive.  Actually this is true of an awful lot of male practitioners of martial arts also. :lol: A lot of people who want to learn martial arts are not really the fighter type and never actually learn how. That's been my experience in a fairly long time in several martial arts over quite a few years.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/08/13 06:47 AM)


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Heffy]
    #19243811 - 12/08/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Whether or not the style practices live sparring makes all the difference.
A female boxer/kickboxer who spars tough opponents regularly, can easily defeat an untrained male opponent.
A female grappler who spars tough opponents regularly will also, easily defeat an untrained male opponent.
One of the Jiu Jitsu instructors we know had a rapist attack his daughter recently. She choked him unconscious, and broke both his arms.
I don't think you have much experience with dedicated female students, in styles where frequent sparring with larger training partners of other genders is encouraged.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Heffy]
    #19243826 - 12/08/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've had a lot of experience with women in the styles I know. The style I posted did a lot of full contact sparring when I was involved. Women generally did not fare well and we are talking generally here and not about the very occasional exception.  I've been in these debates before.  Martial artists seem to often think that if you don't have Martial arts experience you can't fight.  A dedicated street fighter will often prove them wrong. So we can agree to disagree on this one.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19244201 - 12/08/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

A friend of mine took karate classes as a kid. He accidentally punched a lady in her breast and her husband who was also in the class took exception. He was so embarrassed he never went back.

Makes me remember some fighting advice he gave us which he apparently got from an older friend. "Catch the baseball bat between your ribs and arm". Me and a buddy had just got through smoking a bowl and we couldn't quit laughing. We asked for a demonstration but he refused.


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rahz

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19244945 - 12/08/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lines said:
The notion that in society men are the protectors of women is based on the sexist notion that men are evil beings who are intent on harming women; it is also based on the sexist notion that women are incapable of managing their own affairs.

It is a strange concept because on the one hand is classifies men as protectors which would imply men are good but the people women would need protecting from would be men and thus the concept also implies men are evil. The concept itself is a paradox.

Another word for protector is guardian. The term guardian is used to describe the responsibility an adult has over a child. Thus in a society where men are deemed the protectors of women the result is is that women are seen as like children. In such a situation women are the wards of men and men have burdens and responsibilities placed on them that are disproportionate and unfair.

Women are not weak. And as a man this does not make me a womans keeper. Women are responsible for their own well being and they are perfectly capable of it.

The truth about women is that most women support patriarchy and that most of them do this because most women are intellectually lazy and want men to figure everything out for them. What matters though is not what the majority of women want, what matters is what is right. Even though the majority of women want patriarchy that does not mean it is right because a patriarchal system is oppressive to both men and women.

Furthermore it does not do women any good for men to be enablers of their intellectual laziness.

I am not saying men should never protect women and I am not saying women should never protect men and I am not saying people of the same geneder should never protect each other. What I am saying is that it is a bad idea for there to be a formalized role in society where men are seen as the protectors of women and women are seen as weak and where this is also based on gender stereotyping. This is called chivalry and chivalry enslaves women and it encourages weakness in them.

In societies based on chivalry men are very destructive towards one another. Chivalry is simply possessiveness in the mask of altruism, it is competition in the mask of altruism. A chivalrous man is a treacherous one who is not a brother to other men.




You should look into BDSM.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19246815 - 12/08/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Code:

that is a low blow sir (keep your defense classes out the thread thx :nono:)

there have been societies which were more enabling of women (like sparta) where women trained and fought. perception of women effects their confidence which imo was the point of the op :shrug:..

(see, women, i am valiant defender of your honor, kind of an internet white knight (we should hook up))


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19246976 - 12/08/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19248392 - 12/09/13 01:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Code:

that is a low blow sir (keep your defense classes out the thread thx :nono:)

there have been societies which were more enabling of women (like sparta) where women trained and fought. perception of women effects their confidence which imo was the point of the op :shrug:..

(see, women, i am valiant defender of your honor, kind of an internet white knight (we should hook up))




sorry but you cant be defending women with such argument .. claiming that women need basically to be positively perceived is pointing women being not real
on the contrary women are true, that is why real women the more you look at them the more they hate you, they wont accept to bargain their freedom, like where they are only them and nothing else

that is why speaking nicely to women is a cultural universal way of approach that could work .. it is not the reverse

how it became the reverse, like a totem saying what women moves when they are given something .. is all to the evil you are and others you follow like jesus or religions which is the same way.. killing the superiority of being rights to pretend being the truth superiority reference while inventing anything through powers abuse


Edited by absols (12/09/13 01:42 AM)


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: absols]
    #19248809 - 12/09/13 05:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

claiming that women need basically to be positively perceived is pointing women being not real on the contrary women are true, that is why real women the more you look at them the more they hate you, they wont accept to bargain their freedom, like where they are only them and nothing else




so you are arguing against chivalry?

Quote:

that is why speaking nicely to women is a cultural universal way of approach that could work .. it is not the reverse




so you are arguing for chivalry?

Quote:

how it became the reverse, like a totem saying what women moves when they are given something .. is all to the evil you are and others you follow like jesus or religions which is the same way..

killing the superiority of being rights to pretend being the truth superiority reference while inventing anything through powers abuse




i think you are saying that chivalry is good but is used as a means of manipulation and that i am as evil as jesus.?


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19248821 - 12/09/13 05:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

claiming that women need basically to be positively perceived is pointing women being not real on the contrary women are true, that is why real women the more you look at them the more they hate you, they wont accept to bargain their freedom, like where they are only them and nothing else




so you are arguing against chivalry?

Quote:

that is why speaking nicely to women is a cultural universal way of approach that could work .. it is not the reverse




so you are arguing for chivalry?

Quote:

how it became the reverse, like a totem saying what women moves when they are given something .. is all to the evil you are and others you follow like jesus or religions which is the same way..

killing the superiority of being rights to pretend being the truth superiority reference while inventing anything through powers abuse




i think you are saying that chivalry is good but is used as a means of manipulation and that i am as evil as jesus.?




it is incredible how far you cant see things as facts ... it is always for your free gains ...

NO I didn't say anything about chilvalry, im not even interested to know what that is ... I am just reacting relatively to some comments about genders life and definitions ..


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: absols]
    #19248830 - 12/09/13 05:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ok dude calm down i was just trying to understand your post it was kind of cryptic & confusing & i dont see how it relates to what i said? :shrug:


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19248913 - 12/09/13 06:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
ok dude calm down i was just trying to understand your post it was kind of cryptic & confusing & i dont see how it relates to what i said? :shrug:




why do you think that if another is telling you how you cant be objective because you mean always something.. then this person is angry ?? why ???

it is funny... anger is emotional beings like animals awareness kind, that clearly show how conscious is not the present being anymore.. when it is all about letters making sense of everything meant, where is the emotion you see ??

im joking im playing with you .. im not saying that you are doing that .. im saying that I don't think you are a fool .. all is cool  :matrixfight:


Edited by absols (12/09/13 06:44 AM)


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19250994 - 12/09/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

In the historical context of chivalry, I still have no idea what any of this debate has to do with chivalry enslaving women... :shrug2:


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19251130 - 12/09/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Women have always relied on men for physical protection by woman's choice.  That's pretty natural.  And the fact is that women are physically weak and without the protection of males would be very vulnerable to predation.  The fact that a protective culture makes some of that null and void really doesn't change it. Women know that it is by the grace of chance and their expert maneuvering that men are not as necessary for personal protection at this time in history. That could all change in a moment and I think they instinctively know that.




Disagree, in a fight size will only carry one so far. Without an extreme discrepancy it can hardly be considered a factor, women are trained to be weak.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19251150 - 12/09/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You're dreaming.  As a martial arts teacher I learned quickly that women don't have the self confidence to defend themselves most of the time. By the time they retrieved the taser from a pocket and realized they really would have to use it, it would be far too late.

Very few people, men or women realize what self defense really entails.




That in a culture which raises women to be princesses riding pink ponies


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19251397 - 12/09/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

But who made who?

Unless that question is answered it's tough to judge the perceived masculine/feminine polarities evident in culture.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19251480 - 12/09/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Women have always relied on men for physical protection by woman's choice.  That's pretty natural.  And the fact is that women are physically weak and without the protection of males would be very vulnerable to predation.  The fact that a protective culture makes some of that null and void really doesn't change it. Women know that it is by the grace of chance and their expert maneuvering that men are not as necessary for personal protection at this time in history. That could all change in a moment and I think they instinctively know that.




Disagree, in a fight size will only carry one so far. Without an extreme discrepancy it can hardly be considered a factor, women are trained to be weak.




The animal kingdom is generally in disagreement with you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: absols]
    #19253019 - 12/09/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

oh, well carry on then :hatsoff:


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dripping with fantasy


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