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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art?
#19243945 - 12/08/13 08:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It seems that most people don't get it. They think it's either good or bad. No analysis, nothing.
When you look at a painting, do you "feel" what the artist was doing?
When you watch figure skating, do you understand the story the skater is acting?
When you listen to a symphony, do you grasp the deeper sense of it?
Most people are clueless. It always seems like you need refined taste. Is it another level of intelligence you think? The ability to grasp the higher sense of art?
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Snotfish
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal] 1
#19243964 - 12/08/13 08:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I enjoy art very much (being a free-time painter) but it's an extremely subjective thing when viewing. Especially modern art, I feel nobody respects it for the same reasons.
I feel like there is an area in the brain to appreciate art in general and some people haven't really excersized it very well and that's why they pass up paintings and even good music.
Wouldn't call it intelligence necessarily maybe just a different way of looking at things.
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T-Rex




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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Snotfish]
#19243971 - 12/08/13 08:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Artistic and creative abilities are said to stem from the right hemisphere of the brain. And not everyone utilizes the right side primarily. There are said to be more left brained individuals in the world.
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Snotfish
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: T-Rex]
#19243988 - 12/08/13 08:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
T-Rex said: Artistic and creative abilities are said to stem from the right hemisphere of the brain. And not everyone utilizes the right side primarily. There are said to be more left brained individuals in the world.
A little off topic but I wonder how much this plays into evolution. Are people more and more being of the right brain? Or is it a random split?
Edited by Snotfish (12/08/13 08:42 AM)
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Snotfish]
#19243992 - 12/08/13 08:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dankfish said:
Quote:
T-Rex said: Artistic and creative abilities are said to stem from the right hemisphere of the brain. And not everyone utilizes the right side primarily. There are said to be more left brained individuals in the world.
A little off topic but I wonder how much this plays into evolution. Are people more and more being of the right brain? Or is is a random split?
Art isn't necessary to survival. Humans were in survival mode for thousands of years, therefore, it is safe to assume that the right hemisphere developed later on in evolution when humans managed to control their environment
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T-Rex




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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Snotfish]
#19243997 - 12/08/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's a good question. Extensive studies would have to be done on millions of individuals to come to a proper conclusion. But with all the technological advances in the last 100 years it would seem more and more humans are thinking creatively as opposed to rationally.
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Sell Your Soul
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19243998 - 12/08/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: It seems that most people don't get it. They think it's either good or bad. No analysis, nothing.
When you look at a painting, do you "feel" what the artist was doing?
When you watch figure skating, do you understand the story the skater is acting?
When you listen to a symphony, do you grasp the deeper sense of it?
Most people are clueless. It always seems like you need refined taste. Is it another level of intelligence you think? The ability to grasp the higher sense of art?
Art is about beauty and emotion, not logic. If you have to think about it, then it's not art.
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Cosmic_Flame
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Sell Your Soul]
#19244025 - 12/08/13 08:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well said Andy!
-------------------- Pull the blinds and change their minds....
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
#19244037 - 12/08/13 08:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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no, if you have to think about it, then it can still be art.
just means, that you're not grasping the concept yet, if you're thinking.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Sell Your Soul]
#19244041 - 12/08/13 08:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sell Your Soul said:
Quote:
Patlal said: It seems that most people don't get it. They think it's either good or bad. No analysis, nothing.
When you look at a painting, do you "feel" what the artist was doing?
When you watch figure skating, do you understand the story the skater is acting?
When you listen to a symphony, do you grasp the deeper sense of it?
Most people are clueless. It always seems like you need refined taste. Is it another level of intelligence you think? The ability to grasp the higher sense of art?
Art is about beauty and emotion, not logic. If you have to think about it, then it's not art.
Hmmm... I disagree. You have to think about it. You cannot grasp the entire message simply from looking at it without thinking. Most pieces of art have different layers, different stories, perhaps more than one story. I think you need to observe it for a long time for your brain to grasp all of what the artist wants to portray.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244139 - 12/08/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you see there being a 'right' and a 'wrong' way to interpret art? As in, it is a clever puzzle gifted us by the artist, with a correct interpretation and many wrong ones? Because I see art as having no intrinsic meaning.
Though it is true that the artist probably has a concept or emotion that they wish to represent in their work--this subjective notion does not carry on in the same way that the physical aspect does. The artist is dead.
We all see the same painting, but our interpretations will vary wildly.
We all watch the same performance, but the story being told will reflect the viewers personal life more than the performers. We all listen to the same symphony, but the emotions brought to light will differ both in strength and variety.
A person with severe mental retardation can take just as much from art, as could a member of mensa. Intelligence (I assume you mean IQ or something similar by this?) has nothing to do with it.
In fact, I may even be inclined to say that often times too refined of a taste can inhibit your ability to experience art personally--too much time spent posturing to create the illusion that you, and you alone, understand this esoteric secret implanted in the art for the chosen few to understand--not enough time simply enjoying how it makes you feel personally.
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244144 - 12/08/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think intelligence has so much to do with it as a general understanding of the subject does. I used to hate classical music until i took AP music theory in high school. After learning all the background of it i had a much higher appreciation for what was being done. I think visual art is even more subjective as it tends to break more classical rules.
I also don't feel like people who call art "good or bad" aren't "not analyzing" it. I think they are just analyzing it based on their subjective life experiences which are generally not grounded in an artistic background. They're looking for things they relate to which is why people tend to like naturalistic or mildly abstract art more so than modern or vastly abstract art.
Also i feel some credibility was lost on the part of the artists as a lot of art has become more about the message than the piece itself. While the message is certainly important, so is the creative output and time dedicated to expressing that message. If you throw together a couple of news papers and spray paint an X across it, you might be delivering a message, but do you think people are really going to appreciate the statement as much as if you had taken the time to construct something elaborate and detailed? People can make a shitty song with a good message. I'm still not going to like it if the song writing isn't thoughtful. No matter how much i appreciate the meaning.
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Synth Ethics
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#19244147 - 12/08/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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art should be self-explanatory so everyon'e opinion is just as valid as the next connoisseur. if you need to explain me why your art is dope then it's not.
I don't particularly like Van Gogh but I'm not less intelligent because of this.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Synth Ethics]
#19244150 - 12/08/13 09:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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art shouldn't HAVE to be anything, to anyone.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19244161 - 12/08/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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should at least mean something to the artist who created it
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Yage
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Synth Ethics]
#19244234 - 12/08/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, I think so. Doesn't intelligence give you more variables to pick the work apart? Isn't art ment to be picked apart to find a meaning for it of your own? Therefor having more places for the art to end up as having a meaning, or understanding.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#19244237 - 12/08/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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There's a lot of interesting answers in here.
So not about intelligence but more about individual perception?
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244244 - 12/08/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: There's a lot of interesting answers in here.
So not about intelligence but more about individual perception?
I would argue that. Now i think intelligence is certainly linked to a likelihood to be more open minded and considerate of other perspectives. But i don't think that in and of itself it is the determining factor for whether you can appreciate art
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koraks
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244250 - 12/08/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Predictably, this thread is once again turning into a discussion on what intelligence really is.
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KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger




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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#19244262 - 12/08/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Do you see there being a 'right' and a 'wrong' way to interpret art? As in, it is a clever puzzle gifted us by the artist, with a correct interpretation and many wrong ones? Because I see art as having no intrinsic meaning.
Though it is true that the artist probably has a concept or emotion that they wish to represent in their work--this subjective notion does not carry on in the same way that the physical aspect does. The artist is dead.
We all see the same painting, but our interpretations will vary wildly.
We all watch the same performance, but the story being told will reflect the viewers personal life more than the performers. We all listen to the same symphony, but the emotions brought to light will differ both in strength and variety.
A person with severe mental retardation can take just as much from art, as could a member of mensa. Intelligence (I assume you mean IQ or something similar by this?) has nothing to do with it.
In fact, I may even be inclined to say that often times too refined of a taste can inhibit your ability to experience art personally--too much time spent posturing to create the illusion that you, and you alone, understand this esoteric secret implanted in the art for the chosen few to understand--not enough time simply enjoying how it makes you feel personally.
I too reject the notion that art is a puzzle that's supposed to be deciphered.
-------------------- I have pneumonia
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mpd
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: KremrBigSikter]
#19244270 - 12/08/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It doesn't take a higher intelligence to appreciate art; only money.
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger




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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: mpd] 2
#19244275 - 12/08/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I see stupid people appreciating money all the time!
-------------------- I have pneumonia
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: koraks]
#19244277 - 12/08/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: Predictably, this thread is once again turning into a discussion on what intelligence really is.
It is such an interesting question isn't it?
Our brain has a capacity to understand itself and yet it still cannot properly mesure the definition of a simple word. Perhaps the word itself is too vague? Is is the answer simply to complex?
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Apollyphelion
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: KremrBigSikter]
#19244278 - 12/08/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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When it comes to Art, I like to bring up Human Centipede now that movie may not scare you but to say it is not Scary is dishonest It may not gross you out but to not call it disgusting I feel is also a sort of dishonest
I think to talk art good, we have to recognize some things we like in stuff we hate or wouldnt want to watch willfully and try describe the things we do like in a way that acknowledges what we like is someone elses shitpile.
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"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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badchad
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19244294 - 12/08/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JacksonMetaller said: I don't think intelligence has so much to do with it as a general understanding of the subject does. I used to hate classical music until i took AP music theory in high school. After learning all the background of it i had a much higher appreciation for what was being done. I think visual art is even more subjective as it tends to break more classical rules.
I tend to agree with this. You can "learn" about art the same way you can learn about other subjects. I took an art class in college. Lots of the finer details can be pointed out/taught that might not otherwise be readily apparent.
"Notice the use of longer, flowing brush strokes in this section and the expanded palette of colors employed. The artist has purposely placed the subject in the foreground to evoke emotion.."
Once explained, things like this are easier to appreciate/interpret.
I hate to say it, but things like minimalism don't take intelligence to understand, rather a hefty dose of pretentiousness.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244299 - 12/08/13 10:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
koraks said: Predictably, this thread is once again turning into a discussion on what intelligence really is.
It is such an interesting question isn't it?
Our brain has a capacity to understand itself and yet it still cannot properly mesure the definition of a simple word. Perhaps the word itself is too vague? Is is the answer simply to complex?
That's the problem, such a discussion will be inevitable until people realize that reality does not lie in dichotomous concepts. ie intelligent vs stupid. Those are just words to help with communication, but different experiences lead to different interpretations and uses of such words. Words are only "simple" if you view them to have some meaning outside of the context your own life experiences.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244305 - 12/08/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would definitely say that it all comes down to individual perception.
I think having knowledge of the various techniques applied in the creation can increases ones ability to appreciate the expertise and skill of the artist themselves--for example, knowledge of various brushstrokes used when painting oil on canvas can allow one to recognize a particularly difficult technique, or perhaps even a newly innovated one--or understand that half of the value in graffiti lies not in the actual work but in the difficulty of the location, a simple tag in a secluded back alley is no longer so simple when it is thrown up on a bridge going over a busy highway. I guess you could say that such knowledge would be easier for an intelligent person to acquire--but appreciate of the artistic skill is not the same as finding meaning in the artwork itself.
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ReginaldPMcpoop
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244319 - 12/08/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Last time I went to an art museum was a few months ago. I spent maybe an hour in an exhibit looking at about 20 or so paintings by one artist. I thought they were beautiful based upon the vibrant colors and subject but I didn't really care much about the meaning of it all even though there was clearly a running theme. I stood there absorbing the colors and trying to figure out how he achieved certain effects so that I could use that as inspiration in my own paintings.
I appreciated the technical achievement as much as the beauty and even more than the message.
I found some of his paintings online:

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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: ReginaldPMcpoop]
#19244357 - 12/08/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know art and that's not art.
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: mpd]
#19244370 - 12/08/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are correct. This is art:
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KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger




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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#19244374 - 12/08/13 10:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I thought it was gonna be the vaginal spaghetti-os.
-------------------- I have pneumonia
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dontknow
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal] 1
#19244379 - 12/08/13 10:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You seem to think that anything you like makes you highly intelligent, first politics, now art, next cheeseburgers?
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The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14
“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.” Albert Einstein
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: dontknow]
#19244436 - 12/08/13 10:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dontknow said: You seem to think that anything you like makes you highly intelligent, first politics, now art, next cheeseburgers?
Indeed. Although art is not my forte at all.
Also if you dislike the thread, you can choose not to post in it.
EDIT: Whenever somebody chooses to learn and do things that are outside their usual needs and wants, I believe it to be a sign of superior intelligence
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Edited by Patlal (12/08/13 11:03 AM)
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dontknow
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244461 - 12/08/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't say I disliked the thread, it is just arbitrary. There's tons of different types of intelligences. Is someone who is a connoisseur of fine wines exhibiting high intelligence? Maybe, not everyone appreciates a good wine. What about the kid who knows every pokemon, every move each pokemon can use, and where to catch each pokemon? Appreciating or understanding something is usually learned, not something you are born with. So I'd say it doesn't take a higher level of intelligence, it takes time and the will to learn something.
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The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14
“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.” Albert Einstein
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koraks
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244466 - 12/08/13 11:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Perhaps the word itself is too vague?
This. 'Intelligence' is a complex concept.
Had you said, 'Does it take a high IQ to understand art', you would have gotten a more specific discussion. Had you said, 'Does it take a high IQ to understand what the artist was trying to convey when making a work of art', it would have been even more specific. Note that I'm not saying that intelligence is the same as IQ or that to understand art is the same thing as getting the meaning of the artist. I'm just offering examples how the question could have been formulated in a more specific way - but it would have changed its meaning.
Now, the discussion is likely to be about what 'intelligence' means, or what it entails to 'understand' art. Those are interesting things, but they are likely to overshadow what I interpret as the provoking issue that underlies the question: are smarter people better capable of enjoying art than dumber people?
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millzy


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: koraks] 1
#19244641 - 12/08/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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being educated in art history will give anyone a deeper understanding of what's going on with a piece, but ultimately it does come down to whether you like it or not. some people have a natural inclination for generally recognized beauty more so than others. when you attend a gallery or museum you're putting your trust in that director's sense of what is generally recognized as beautiful. and some people utterly lack any inclination for seeing art on any level of beauty. to me this seems to stem from being logically inclined. for the logical, everything has to have an end, a purpose. art is not a product of reason. it serves its own purpose, which is why it's difficult for logical people to wrap their heads around it. in answer to the original question, seeing that you can be a total left-brain and a dumbass at the same time, and that you can be a left-brain and a genius, intelligence has nothing to do with someone's capacity to appreciate art.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
Edited by millzy (12/08/13 11:57 AM)
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#19244782 - 12/08/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: should at least mean something to the artist who created it
it doesn't HAVE to be anything to anyone.
period. that's art.
Quote:
mpd said: It doesn't take a higher intelligence to appreciate art; only money.
false statement.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: dontknow]
#19244804 - 12/08/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dontknow said: I didn't say I disliked the thread, it is just arbitrary. There's tons of different types of intelligences. Is someone who is a connoisseur of fine wines exhibiting high intelligence? Maybe, not everyone appreciates a good wine. What about the kid who knows every pokemon, every move each pokemon can use, and where to catch each pokemon? Appreciating or understanding something is usually learned, not something you are born with. So I'd say it doesn't take a higher level of intelligence, it takes time and the will to learn something.
personally, i think patlal is simply observing the insane amount of fanatical arguing about FUCKING LUDICROUS SUBJECTS in order to "appear" to be more well informed over "someone elsewhere".
it happens not only on every corner of every turn in day to day life in our days or nights in the streets... but also online, and in this forum.
ALL THE TIME NEVER ENDING ALWAYS.
it think it's an important thing to address. not to be pretentious... just put a mirror up in the face of aridity in this pretentious place.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: koraks]
#19244812 - 12/08/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
Patlal said: Perhaps the word itself is too vague?
This. 'Intelligence' is a complex concept.
Had you said, 'Does it take a high IQ to understand art', you would have gotten a more specific discussion. Had you said, 'Does it take a high IQ to understand what the artist was trying to convey when making a work of art', it would have been even more specific. Note that I'm not saying that intelligence is the same as IQ or that to understand art is the same thing as getting the meaning of the artist. I'm just offering examples how the question could have been formulated in a more specific way - but it would have changed its meaning.
Now, the discussion is likely to be about what 'intelligence' means, or what it entails to 'understand' art. Those are interesting things, but they are likely to overshadow what I interpret as the provoking issue that underlies the question: are smarter people better capable of enjoying art than dumber people?
say art again. you should also mention painting and brush strokes. you'll win then.
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koods
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19244845 - 12/08/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm not much of an art aficionado, but this is one of my favorite movie scenes ever, especially the last part where he stares into the impressionist's little girl and it dissolves into nothing but spots.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19244886 - 12/08/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
dontknow said: I didn't say I disliked the thread, it is just arbitrary. There's tons of different types of intelligences. Is someone who is a connoisseur of fine wines exhibiting high intelligence? Maybe, not everyone appreciates a good wine. What about the kid who knows every pokemon, every move each pokemon can use, and where to catch each pokemon? Appreciating or understanding something is usually learned, not something you are born with. So I'd say it doesn't take a higher level of intelligence, it takes time and the will to learn something.
personally, i think patlal is simply observing the insane amount of fanatical arguing about FUCKING LUDICROUS SUBJECTS in order to "appear" to be more well informed over "someone elsewhere".
it happens not only on every corner of every turn in day to day life in our days or nights in the streets... but also online, and in this forum.
ALL THE TIME NEVER ENDING ALWAYS.
it think it's an important thing to address. not to be pretentious... just put a mirror up in the face of aridity in this pretentious place.
I'm just trying to create a conversation in the Pub because I find it boring today.
No secret agenda here.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244962 - 12/08/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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who said anything about a secret? it's more then obvious, how people are being misapprehending of the intent of the purpose of art, and it's intrinsic purpose in the world.
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Aedan



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19244969 - 12/08/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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When it comes to music the more I learned it through playing instruments the more I appreciated it and expanded my interest. Classical music specifically.
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Icyus
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Aedan]
#19244984 - 12/08/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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A higher? Which way is up then... I guess it depend on which side you sleep at night.. It takes a different mind.. the creative mind, and not the analythical. A right brainhemosphere in anatomous terms..
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19245031 - 12/08/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
I'm just trying to create a conversation in the Pub because I find it boring today.
No secret agenda here.
[/endthread]
we have no reason to share our opinions here, they are invalid. we're just here to berate each others opinions when we feel suited to, and then otherwise, just talk and act as if we're above it all; for the sake of relieving boredom, or having time on our hands.
art.
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Beanhead
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19245143 - 12/08/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: It seems that most people don't get it. They think it's either good or bad. No analysis, nothing.
When you look at a painting, do you "feel" what the artist was doing?
When you watch figure skating, do you understand the story the skater is acting?
When you listen to a symphony, do you grasp the deeper sense of it?
Most people are clueless. It always seems like you need refined taste. Is it another level of intelligence you think? The ability to grasp the higher sense of art?
Your interpretation =/ The artists intention
that's what YOU think so no, art is for every dumbass out there
Edited by Beanhead (12/08/13 01:54 PM)
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Beanhead]
#19245157 - 12/08/13 01:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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he wasn't really asking anything he really thought about, he just made a post cause he was bored. this thread is practically a facade.
maybe it's supposed to be art... but it's shitty.
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JonnyBtreed




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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245240 - 12/08/13 02:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think Aedan has a good point.
In my opinion, art has to strike you as beautiful, or at least create some sort of enjoyable emotion in those who are observing it. Also many artists (and failed artists) appreciate art much more than others because they understand what goes into it.
A guitarist will appreciate a bad ass guitar solo much more than someone who has never picked one up, as they don't have the capability to understand why the piece of music is so complex, or comes together so well. A painter, sculptor, glassblower or whatever will always appreciate the art of others in the same field to a higher degree than those with no understanding of those arts. Also something about the medium must of drawn that person in to begin with, so they are going to be far more likely to enjoy it at a broader level than those who would look at it arbitrarily and with no background.
I think many people also pretend to understand art, because they don't want to appear unintelligent to those around them. And those with excessive money, in many cases just buy expensive things to show off to their friends with hardly any appreciation for the actual art itself.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: JonnyBtreed]
#19245253 - 12/08/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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like Museums...
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19245254 - 12/08/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I find the entire conceit of "art" to be a construct that allows the self anointed cognoscenti to look down their snouts at the bourgeoisie.
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JonnyBtreed




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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245277 - 12/08/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know about that. I suppose in the high end art world that might be the case, but there's plenty of art and artists out there that want to share their work with the everyday person, and want them to appreciate it without some crazy explanation of what the artist was trying to achieve.
Obviously the better informed will understand it more thoroughly, but you don't have to know who painted a picture to enjoy it or think it's beautiful, do you?
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245293 - 12/08/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I find the entire conceit of "art" to be a construct that allows the self anointed cognoscenti to look down their snouts at the bourgeoisie.
i don't think so. politics, science, participation in activities like sport and athletics, theosophy, construction and building are all forms of art.
art is something you find beauty in and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Mescalean
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245323 - 12/08/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think people just are wired differently. Some are extremely well at math, some art, some people skills. I wouldn't say it makes someone less intelligent to not " get " art.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Mescalean]
#19245335 - 12/08/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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OP wasn't REALLY asking anything. he already specified, he was just bored, so he made up an issue.
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jewunit
Brutal!


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19245369 - 12/08/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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There are intelligent people who don't "get" art, like Zappa for example, so I'd go with no.
This thread is kinda funny to me, I was just about to hop in my car and head to the Columbus Museum of Art. It's free on Sundays and so is parking Perfect entertainment for a broke ass like myself.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245382 - 12/08/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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art is a horribly defined word, in the common English dialect. 
PS: good observation jewunit; plus, have fun. Columbus Museum of Art has got some good stuff.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245398 - 12/08/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I find the entire conceit of "art" to be a construct that allows the self anointed cognoscenti to look down their snouts at the bourgeoisie.
i don't think so. politics, science, participation in activities like sport and athletics, theosophy, construction and building are all forms of art.
art is something you find beauty in and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Those things are not labeled "art". You may think they are and I may think they are but you will not find them discussed in the Arts section of the NY Times.
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jewunit
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245407 - 12/08/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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They had a Rothko exhibit last time I went. I'm not a big art guy, but it was pretty cool to see fucking millions of dollars worth of art in a few rooms.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245412 - 12/08/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: They had a Rothko exhibit last time I went. I'm not a big art guy, but it was pretty cool to see fucking millions of dollars worth of art in a few rooms.
And how did they acquire that value?
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jewunit
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245416 - 12/08/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't really care, it was still cool.
Fuck me, the museum closes at 5:30. I thought it was 7 on Sundays. Oh well, next week.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245429 - 12/08/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: They had a Rothko exhibit last time I went. I'm not a big art guy, but it was pretty cool to see fucking millions of dollars worth of art in a few rooms.
Rothko is brilliant. really shows the extent of people's palette for taste and questioning.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I find the entire conceit of "art" to be a construct that allows the self anointed cognoscenti to look down their snouts at the bourgeoisie.
i don't think so. politics, science, participation in activities like sport and athletics, theosophy, construction and building are all forms of art.
art is something you find beauty in and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Those things are not labeled "art". You may think they are and I may think they are but you will not find them discussed in the Arts section of the NY Times.
because people are 
and they want to separate things in terms of their air of precedence.
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Shins
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19245433 - 12/08/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Absolutely 100% it does.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245434 - 12/08/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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All you gave a shit about was how much it could be sold to some shmuck for. How does that make it art or worth going out of your way to look at? Alex Rodriguez gets paid 25+ million dollars a year and performs at a mediocre MLB level. Is that art? The art of the deal?
Art is bunk.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19245437 - 12/08/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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how do you "raise higher your intelligence"?
hot air?
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245438 - 12/08/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Air of precedence"?
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245444 - 12/08/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Art is bunk.
people are bunk. art (and things which can be perceived as art: see my earlier post where i say every people make is art) is the only thing that people do that is anything worth while, that people do... other then fuck, i suppose; but that could be argued.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: "Air of precedence"?
yes, air of precedence. meaning thin; thin precedence. things serve to work together, much better then they do to work apart.
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jewunit
Brutal!


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245459 - 12/08/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: All you gave a shit about was how much it could be sold to some shmuck for. How does that make it art or worth going out of your way to look at? Alex Rodriguez gets paid 25+ million dollars a year and performs at a mediocre MLB level. Is that art? The art of the deal?
Art is bunk.
I didn't go out of my way to look at the Rothko specifically. I didn't even know a Rothko exhibit was there, or realize how much his shit is valued at until I looked it up on my phone. Like I said, not a big art guy, but I enjoy checking stuff out sometimes. My friend wanted to go to the museum, I wanted to go with her. It was cool to be in a room with stuff that I will never in my wildest dreams be able to come close to affording, regardless of why it's valued at what it's valued. Even cooler that I still got to check it out and... appreciate it? I dunno, he didn't really do it for me, but I enjoyed myself. Whether you do or don't enjoy that I enjoyed myself is not really my concern.
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Beanhead
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245470 - 12/08/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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ah zowe ...
Game art
Tai Chi Master
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Beanhead]
#19245485 - 12/08/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Beanhead, you should check out Jet Li's Fist of Legend, (if you ain't seen it yet) and my thread in the Music/Movie/Art forum bout it.
you might like it, if you dig martial arts movies.
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Shins
Fun guy



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245490 - 12/08/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: All you gave a shit about was how much it could be sold to some shmuck for. How does that make it art or worth going out of your way to look at? Alex Rodriguez gets paid 25+ million dollars a year and performs at a mediocre MLB level. Is that art? The art of the deal?
Art is bunk.
maybe youre just not that intelligent?
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Crystal G



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19245542 - 12/08/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: It seems that most people don't get it. They think it's either good or bad. No analysis, nothing.
When you look at a painting, do you "feel" what the artist was doing?
When you watch figure skating, do you understand the story the skater is acting?
When you listen to a symphony, do you grasp the deeper sense of it?
Most people are clueless. It always seems like you need refined taste. Is it another level of intelligence you think? The ability to grasp the higher sense of art?
No. People can understand art by simply learning about it.
However, it does not take a high level of intelligence to understand art. Art is primal. Even primates create art.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Crystal G]
#19245561 - 12/08/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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the presupposition "most people are clueless" completely nullifies his argument, right out the door.
but OP was just looking to make a juicy topic for the pub, afterall.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245602 - 12/08/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Art is bunk.
people are bunk. art (and things which can be perceived as art: see my earlier post where i say every people make is art) is the only thing that people do that is anything worth while, that people do... other then fuck, i suppose; but that could be argued.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: "Air of precedence"?
yes, air of precedence. meaning thin; thin precedence. things serve to work together, much better then they do to work apart.
I still don't understand what this is supposed to mean. And jewunit is still focused on an utterly artificial assessment of coolness, i.e.that which will get shmucks to pay more money for. Lichtenstein is art but Stan Lee's illustrators are 10c comic books? Pollack? Fucking spare me
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Shins
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Crystal G]
#19245613 - 12/08/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Patlal said: It seems that most people don't get it. They think it's either good or bad. No analysis, nothing.
When you look at a painting, do you "feel" what the artist was doing?
When you watch figure skating, do you understand the story the skater is acting?
When you listen to a symphony, do you grasp the deeper sense of it?
Most people are clueless. It always seems like you need refined taste. Is it another level of intelligence you think? The ability to grasp the higher sense of art?
No. People can understand art by simply learning about it.
However, it does not take a high level of intelligence to understand art. Art is primal. Even primates create art.
Humans are primates too by the way.
but yeah, the art other animals make can be relatively more simple to percieve.
I think its fair to say that it takes an intelligent viewer to percieve an intelligent artist.
I mean just look at how dumb most people who like shallow pop music are.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245618 - 12/08/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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ok, let me re-phrase what i said...
people think that certain things are more important then certain things...
all things are important. not just certain things, and certain things are not more important then others.
get what i'm saying now?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19245623 - 12/08/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
I mean just look at how dumb most people who like shallow pop music are.
i'll just quote this... and not say anything opinionated, because i'll just get some people telling me i should shut the fuck up.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245646 - 12/08/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: ok, let me re-phrase what i said...
people think that certain things are more important then certain things...
all things are important. not just certain things, and certain things are not more important then others.
get what i'm saying now?

No
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245661 - 12/08/13 03:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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well, then you must be a little... lacking.
everything is important, not just "waht you like".
if you can't get THAT now... well, i dunno... i'm guessing you might be really that ignorant afterall.
i just told you even construction, and working with your hands is art as well... you even agree with me; see...?
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Those things are not labeled "art". You may think they are and I may think they are .
look^
you get it, but you're getting bungled in the semantics, like you always do. your way of thinking is a fucking modern art masterpiece, zap.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245697 - 12/08/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: well, then you must be a little... lacking.
You know better than thatQuote:
everything is important, not just "waht you like".
If everything is "important" why even have the word?Quote:
if you can't get THAT now... well, i dunno... i'm guessing you might be really that ignorant afterall.
i just told you even construction, and working with your hands is art as well... you even agree with me; see...?
No, I do not. If everything is art nothing is art. The word loses meaningQuote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Those things are not labeled "art". You may think they are and I may think they are .
look^
you get it, but you're getting bungled in the semantics, like you always do. your way of thinking is a fucking modern art masterpiece, zap.
Why did you crop the relevant part of the post in regards to the NY Times supposed arbiters of art? That was my entire point from the get go. Art is a conceit for snobs
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Whitewater



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19245711 - 12/08/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think "more intelligent" is the right way to think about it. It's more that they (people who get art) think differently. It's common to think of intelligence in a linear way (more or less intelligent) when I think there are just different forms of giftedness. Some people may be blessed with overall intelligence though.
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245715 - 12/08/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Art is bunk.
people are bunk. art (and things which can be perceived as art: see my earlier post where i say every people make is art) is the only thing that people do that is anything worth while, that people do... other then fuck, i suppose; but that could be argued.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: "Air of precedence"?
yes, air of precedence. meaning thin; thin precedence. things serve to work together, much better then they do to work apart.
I still don't understand what this is supposed to mean. And jewunit is still focused on an utterly artificial assessment of coolness, i.e.that which will get shmucks to pay more money for. Lichtenstein is art but Stan Lee's illustrators are 10c comic books? Pollack? Fucking spare me
No that wasn't really supposed to be my point. I did not say the art was cool because it was worth millions, I said being in a room full of shit worth millions was cool. I also thought it was cool when I had to take my car to a luxury dealership to get it fixed and say in a room full of millions of dollars worth of cars. Notice how I'm not saying that I think they cars are cool because they are worth millions, I'm saying the experience was. I thought I already explained that fairly clearly, but I guess not. Hell, I even said I didn't much care for the actual art itself.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245719 - 12/08/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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man i love semantics, this board should be re-titled the Semantery.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245725 - 12/08/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: well, then you must be a little... lacking.
You know better than thatQuote:
everything is important, not just "waht you like".
If everything is "important" why even have the word?Quote:
if you can't get THAT now... well, i dunno... i'm guessing you might be really that ignorant afterall.
i just told you even construction, and working with your hands is art as well... you even agree with me; see...?
No, I do not. If everything is art nothing is art. The word loses meaningQuote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Those things are not labeled "art". You may think they are and I may think they are .
look^
you get it, but you're getting bungled in the semantics, like you always do. your way of thinking is a fucking modern art masterpiece, zap.
Why did you crop the relevant part of the post in regards to the NY Times supposed arbiters of art? That was my entire point from the get go. Art is a conceit for snobs
you ever think for a minute, that maybe the word SHOULDN'T EXIST, is what i'm arguing, maybe?
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245752 - 12/08/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey zappa, carpentry is an art ya dickhead.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245765 - 12/08/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: well, then you must be a little... lacking.
You know better than thatQuote:
everything is important, not just "waht you like".
If everything is "important" why even have the word?Quote:
if you can't get THAT now... well, i dunno... i'm guessing you might be really that ignorant afterall.
i just told you even construction, and working with your hands is art as well... you even agree with me; see...?
No, I do not. If everything is art nothing is art. The word loses meaningQuote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Those things are not labeled "art". You may think they are and I may think they are .
look^
you get it, but you're getting bungled in the semantics, like you always do. your way of thinking is a fucking modern art masterpiece, zap.
Why did you crop the relevant part of the post in regards to the NY Times supposed arbiters of art? That was my entire point from the get go. Art is a conceit for snobs
you ever think for a minute, that maybe the word SHOULDN'T EXIST, is what i'm arguing, maybe?
Wasn't that MY ORIGINAL POINT?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245772 - 12/08/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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WERENT WE TALKING?
i fucking hate this world. thanks, Patlal.
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245785 - 12/08/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ah the classic "This person responded me so they must be arguing with me" problem that happens all the time on the internet.
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dontknow
It's all in the reflex


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245787 - 12/08/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you trying to fight me?
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The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14
“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.” Albert Einstein
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19245788 - 12/08/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Hey zappa, carpentry is an art ya dickhead.
No it isn't. I consider myself to be an executioner. You tell me what you want and I execute it. I am really good at that. I fucking hate getting involved in design for other people. Really hate it. Like a lot of hate. White hot hate. I am not an artist by any definition.
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245810 - 12/08/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So how should I go about making a deck for my roommate's back yard? What do you think it should look like?
Yeah, I'd agree. Woodworking can certainly be art, but carpentry isn't something that is art*. At least not inherently.
God that sentence sucks. Should have just gone with "carpentry isn't art."
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Edited by jewunit (12/08/13 04:11 PM)
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245821 - 12/08/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: Ah the classic "This person responded me so they must be arguing with me" problem that happens all the time on the internet.
dude. i've gotten a few people very mad in the past few days for simply responding, sorta like many other people were. hell, they didn't get bullshit for it.
fuck this forum. it's fucking retarded sometimes
i try and get along with Zap all the time, but it's so fucking difficult to talk about something without semantic arguments about "Waht are you talking about then, i'm right@! hurrumph!"
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245828 - 12/08/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: Hey zappa, carpentry is an art ya dickhead.
No it isn't. I consider myself to be an executioner. You tell me what you want and I execute it. I am really good at that. I fucking hate getting involved in design for other people. Really hate it. Like a lot of hate. White hot hate. I am not an artist by any definition.
i think you are. tell me how i'm wrong, now.
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245831 - 12/08/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think it's because people know that you like to(?) argue.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19245848 - 12/08/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Patlal said: It seems that most people don't get it. They think it's either good or bad. No analysis, nothing.
When you look at a painting, do you "feel" what the artist was doing?
When you watch figure skating, do you understand the story the skater is acting?
When you listen to a symphony, do you grasp the deeper sense of it?
Most people are clueless. It always seems like you need refined taste. Is it another level of intelligence you think? The ability to grasp the higher sense of art?
No. People can understand art by simply learning about it.
However, it does not take a high level of intelligence to understand art. Art is primal. Even primates create art.
Humans are primates too by the way.
Yes. My point was that humans evolved to create art as early as in the prehistoric era. So to me, it's not a sign of intelligence. It's something that exists in our primal nature.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245865 - 12/08/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said:
God that sentence sucks. Should have just gone with "carpentry isn't art."
Carpentry can be art. Example: i found Jesus's last made chair.
ART.
because a: its a piece of fine made and aesthetically appealing piece of work b: it's a historical article
a fine chair, or table... in twenty years, forty years ect ect, can be considered as much as "Art" as any antique article of work.
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245874 - 12/08/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Right, that's what the rest of my post was addressing, and also what I think Zappa was saying. I could be wrong about that though of course.
Though I would argue that Jesus' last made chair would be art, unless it was artistically crafted (which of course would be really hard to figure out anyway). I mean, if the dude just made a chair that looked plain as day for the sole purpose of sitting it I don't think it becomes art simply because it was made by Jesus. Sure, it's a hell of a historic artifact, but not art. At least not to me.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245879 - 12/08/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: I think it's because people know that you like to(?) argue.
maybe they think that, but that's a bit of a erroneous opinion, and if anyone is gonna make that presumption, they can be told where i'm coming from (like i am saying stuff along with other people of the same opinion; which happens alot) and they still won't see that i'm doing exactly what everyone does here.
the same fuckin' thing.
Quote:
jewunit said: Right, that's what the rest of my post was addressing, and also what I think Zappa was saying. I could be wrong about that though of course.
yeah, i think Crystal G is correct, personally, myself.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245880 - 12/08/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: So how should I go about making a deck for my roommate's back yard? What do you think it should look like?
Don't care. Give me the fucking plans and I'll tell if you they are doable.Quote:
Yeah, I'd agree. Woodworking can certainly be art, but carpentry isn't something that is art*. At least not inherently.
God that sentence sucks. Should have just gone with "carpentry isn't art."
It is craft. By the way, most of the carpentry I do is entirely structural. Less than half of it is ever seen by anybody except as the form of what is clad. Really. 100% not art. Engineering.
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245885 - 12/08/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No I want you to design it. Make it pretty. He likes video games and has a dog. That should be enough for you to go on.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245888 - 12/08/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: Hey zappa, carpentry is an art ya dickhead.
No it isn't. I consider myself to be an executioner. You tell me what you want and I execute it. I am really good at that. I fucking hate getting involved in design for other people. Really hate it. Like a lot of hate. White hot hate. I am not an artist by any definition.
i think you are. tell me how i'm wrong, now.
There are no artists. Art is bunk.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245889 - 12/08/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: Hey zappa, carpentry is an art ya dickhead.
No it isn't. I consider myself to be an executioner. You tell me what you want and I execute it. I am really good at that. I fucking hate getting involved in design for other people. Really hate it. Like a lot of hate. White hot hate. I am not an artist by any definition.
You dont even know what art IS you know it all.
that would take a certain level of intelligence and wisdom you obviously lack.
your art is in taking plans and making them a reality.
everyone is an artist and every single thing we do is a work of art.
you lack a fundamental understanding of what art is, how mundane.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19245894 - 12/08/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: Hey zappa, carpentry is an art ya dickhead.
No it isn't. I consider myself to be an executioner. You tell me what you want and I execute it. I am really good at that. I fucking hate getting involved in design for other people. Really hate it. Like a lot of hate. White hot hate. I am not an artist by any definition.
You dont even know what art IS you know it all.
that would take a certain level of intelligence and wisdom you obviously lack.
your art is in taking plans and making them a reality.
everyone is an artist and every single thing we do is a work of art.
you lack a fundamental understanding of what art is, how mundane.
If everything is art the word has no meaning. Piss off.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245899 - 12/08/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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it's a part of a house? or a garage? or what?
guess what... it's called Architecture, and it's considered to defined as art.
so... please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_art#Architecture
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: Hey zappa, carpentry is an art ya dickhead.
No it isn't. I consider myself to be an executioner. You tell me what you want and I execute it. I am really good at that. I fucking hate getting involved in design for other people. Really hate it. Like a lot of hate. White hot hate. I am not an artist by any definition.
i think you are. tell me how i'm wrong, now.
There are no artists. Art is bunk.
sure.Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: Hey zappa, carpentry is an art ya dickhead.
No it isn't. I consider myself to be an executioner. You tell me what you want and I execute it. I am really good at that. I fucking hate getting involved in design for other people. Really hate it. Like a lot of hate. White hot hate. I am not an artist by any definition.
You dont even know what art IS you know it all.
that would take a certain level of intelligence and wisdom you obviously lack.
your art is in taking plans and making them a reality.
everyone is an artist and every single thing we do is a work of art.
you lack a fundamental understanding of what art is, how mundane.
If everything is art the word has no meaning. Piss off.
you piss the fuck off. the proof of the definition of the word, proves the definition of the concept.
art1 ärt/Submit noun 1. the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically (but not always) in a visual form such as (but also including Architecture: see above) painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245909 - 12/08/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: it's a part of a house? or a garage? or what?
guess what... it's called Architecture, and it's considered to defined as art.
so... please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_art#Architecture
I'm not an architect. I'm a master carpenter. Executioner.
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245910 - 12/08/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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But he's not an architect, he's a carpenter. I'm not sure he's trying at all to say architecture isn't art, rather that he is not an artist because he merely executes the visions of others. I would agree with him if that's the case.
Hey, I do agree wit him.
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Edited by jewunit (12/08/13 04:24 PM)
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245926 - 12/08/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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it's a PIECE of the Architecture.
hence he's contributing to the Architecture.
no one is saying Zap is an artist. NO ONE IN THE WORLD WOULD EVER.
people can artists or not artists... but a fine skill (trade) or piece of work, CAN be considered art by anyone, and you nor zap nor anyone can tell them different.
that's art.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245927 - 12/08/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: Hey zappa, carpentry is an art ya dickhead.
No it isn't. I consider myself to be an executioner. You tell me what you want and I execute it. I am really good at that. I fucking hate getting involved in design for other people. Really hate it. Like a lot of hate. White hot hate. I am not an artist by any definition.
You dont even know what art IS you know it all.
that would take a certain level of intelligence and wisdom you obviously lack.
your art is in taking plans and making them a reality.
everyone is an artist and every single thing we do is a work of art.
you lack a fundamental understanding of what art is, how mundane.
gg If everything is art the word has no meaning. Piss off.
It surely hss meaning, profound meaning to those wise and intelligent enough to perceive. I'm just sorry you aren't one of them.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245933 - 12/08/13 04:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: it's a part of a house? or a garage? or what?
guess what... it's called Architecture, and it's considered to defined as art.
so... please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_art#Architecture
I'm not an architect. I'm a master carpenter. Executioner.
i don't know how this became bout "you bein an artist" no one said that once.
i said a piece of work, is art, cause it can be considered art. you aren't the art or the artist. the piece you contributed to is art. because it's a piece of work.
sorta like you.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19245943 - 12/08/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
It surely hss meaning, profound meaning to those wise and intelligent enough to perceive. I'm just sorry you aren't one of them.
he's just mad, cause in his world view, he's always right; hence WHY he's a carpenter.
he builds, and doesn't contribute to any art; becasue art doesn't exist, but existence of the word proves the existence of the concept, but only... NOT FOR HIM. even if he thinks his opinion of art not existing, applies to everyone else. he's being ludicrous.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19245949 - 12/08/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Somebody tried to make the point that carpentry is art. It isn't. Even if there is such a thing as art, structural carpentry is just engineering and execution. Are the people who work to put Boeing jets together artists?
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Shins
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19245952 - 12/08/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: But he's not an architect, he's a carpenter. I'm not sure he's trying at all to say architecture isn't art, rather that he is not an artist because he merely executes the visions of others. I would agree with him if that's the case.
Hey, I do agree wit him.
Wow ill chalk you up as lacking the wisdom too.
the are many many different ways to execute plans. I am a carpenter too. Your individual method of doing it is your art and moreso eveb doing it a generic cookie cutter wat is still art.
jewunit I thought you were into kabala or are you just playing dumb because you think it makes you part of an exclusive community?
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#19245961 - 12/08/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Shins said:
It surely hss meaning, profound meaning to those wise and intelligent enough to perceive. I'm just sorry you aren't one of them.
he's just mad, cause in his world view, he's always right; hence WHY he's a carpenter.
he builds, and doesn't contribute to any art; becasue art doesn't exist, but existence of the word proves the existence of the concept, but only... NOT FOR HIM. even if he thinks his opinion of art not existing, applies to everyone else. he's being ludicrous.
Please tell me exactly what art is.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245972 - 12/08/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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art is a piece of a work that someone has done, that is aesthetically pleasing to someone.
and since you don't know what'll be art for someone, everything can then be considered a form of art, or at the very least artful; even if you don't think it's art; because if you like it, at all, it can conceived that someone could think that it's art.
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Shins
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245981 - 12/08/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: , structural carpentry is just engineering and execution.?
thats an art dumbfuck.
An the finished product is a work of art
you should really consider it. Its a profound and enlightening ealization to become aware of your art and your lifes work not to mention the greater potential and self empowerment such a realization brings to yourself.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245984 - 12/08/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Somebody tried to make the point that carpentry is art. It isn't. Even if there is such a thing as art, structural carpentry is just engineering and execution. Are the people who work to put Boeing jets together artists?
some might think the Boeing jet is a work of art. no one is talking about artists... you just can't grasp the concept here... it's not about who made it... it's about who thinks one thing or another is art.
ever heard of Duchamp? (i don't why i bother but i'll try)

this is art^
he found a discarded fountain, and called it art, hence it's art.
that's how art works, which is seemingly very contradictory to your beliefs. sorry.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19245989 - 12/08/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: , structural carpentry is just engineering and execution.?
thats an art dumbfuck.
An the finished product is a work of art
you should really consider it. Its a profound and enlightening ealization to become aware of your art and your lifes work not to mention the greater potential and self empowerment such a realization brings to yourself.
he'd rather that art just not exist, so he can continue being "the best"; so everything can be an engineered mechanical (and structurally sound) mess. @Zappa this is the same guy (and only guy apparently) on here that likes GG, but... he can't grasp the concept of art. why... why world? why?
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fapjack
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal] 1
#19245997 - 12/08/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: It seems that most people don't get it. They think it's either good or bad. No analysis, nothing.
When you look at a painting, do you "feel" what the artist was doing?
When you watch figure skating, do you understand the story the skater is acting?
When you listen to a symphony, do you grasp the deeper sense of it?
Most people are clueless. It always seems like you need refined taste. Is it another level of intelligence you think? The ability to grasp the higher sense of art?
I know plenty of stupid artists, I don't think an appreciation of art works like that at all. You are doing a good job making yourself look pompous though.
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19245998 - 12/08/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Shins said:
It surely hss meaning, profound meaning to those wise and intelligent enough to perceive. I'm just sorry you aren't one of them.
he's just mad, cause in his world view, he's always right; hence WHY he's a carpenter.
he builds, and doesn't contribute to any art; becasue art doesn't exist, but existence of the word proves the existence of the concept, but only... NOT FOR HIM. even if he thinks his opinion of art not existing, applies to everyone else. he's being ludicrous.
Please tell me exactly what art is.
I will attempt.
Broadly speaking art is the changing of reality, more specifically it is the intentional changing of reality.
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jewunit
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19245999 - 12/08/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
jewunit said: But he's not an architect, he's a carpenter. I'm not sure he's trying at all to say architecture isn't art, rather that he is not an artist because he merely executes the visions of others. I would agree with him if that's the case.
Hey, I do agree wit him.
Wow ill chalk you up as lacking the wisdom too.
Well that seems a bit over the top. Because I disagree with you about what makes something art or someone an artist I lack wisdom? I don't see why you're being so defensive about this yet so insulting to those who disagree with you.
Quote:
Shins said:jewunit I thought you were into kabala or are you just playing dumb because you think it makes you part of an exclusive community?
Uhh, no. What?
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19246011 - 12/08/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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he's mad for everyone being the same way all the time, and he's just sick of it. his posting style has changed drastically, and has been made a cynical ass (no offence) because of the repeated insults of people.
plus, i just showed Zaphow art works. read above. it's not about the artist... it's NEVER about the artist (again why..., back to the point of the OP [fucker] art isn't intellectual; or at least, it certainly doesn't have to be. period)
it's not about the artist. it's about what someone (anyone) can find as aesthetically pleasing. that is the definition of art.
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19246024 - 12/08/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: All you gave a shit about was how much it could be sold to some shmuck for. How does that make it art or worth going out of your way to look at? Alex Rodriguez gets paid 25+ million dollars a year and performs at a mediocre MLB level. Is that art? The art of the deal?
Art is bunk.
What happened to those conservative values of something is worth what people are willing to pay in a free market?
--------------------
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Shins
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19246034 - 12/08/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I assumed you were into kabala (or however you spell it) by all the images you used to attach to your profile
My Definition of art is well established In philosophic and esoteric circles which are widely considered to be full of wisdom, insight and higher conciousness.
i truly pity those who lack such perception.
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Shins
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: koods]
#19246042 - 12/08/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: All you gave a shit about was how much it could be sold to some shmuck for. How does that make it art or worth going out of your way to look at? Alex Rodriguez gets paid 25+ million dollars a year and performs at a mediocre MLB level. Is that art? The art of the deal?
Art is bunk.
What happened to those conservative values of something is worth what people are willing to pay in a free market?
Hes not a conservative just a know it all.
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fapjack
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19246050 - 12/08/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Who the fuck is anyone to tell anyone else how they should enjoy art? This thread sucks.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19246053 - 12/08/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: My Definition of art is well established In philosophic and esoteric circles which are widely considered to be full of wisdom, insight and higher conciousness.
i truly pity those who lack such perception.
a garden isn't art, to these dudes, it's just "a garden".
man, ohhh... man...
can't explain nothin' to nobody round here.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: fapjack]
#19246057 - 12/08/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said: Who the fuck is anyone to tell anyone else how they should enjoy art? This thread sucks.
that's what i've been saying... what Koraks was saying...the OP just wanted to start a big debate about bullshit...or at least, had a major lack of foresight about the topics subject matter.
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jewunit
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19246073 - 12/08/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Didn't realize an old dude staring dissatisfied at a stripper's cooch was Kabbalah imagery.
Considering the definition of art is not one singular thing (I would think you would know this being so well familiar with the esoteric and philosophical circles) I think it's a bit ridiculous for you to insult me over a disagreement. Some art (or is it art?) exists for the pure reason that the definition of art is so hotly debated.
Personally intent has a lot to do with what I perceive as art. I'm fairly open to things being art, but I don't think creation is inherently an artistic endeavor.
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Shins said: My Definition of art is well established In philosophic and esoteric circles which are widely considered to be full of wisdom, insight and higher conciousness.
i truly pity those who lack such perception.
a garden isn't art, to these dudes, it's just "a garden".
man, ohhh... man...
can't explain nothin' to nobody round here.
No thats not at all what I'm saying.
Maybe to try and articulate I'll briefly continue with your example. To me the act of putting seeds in the ground isn't an art. The act of putting paint to a surface isn't art. The action isn't the art.
To a certain extent (I'm sure we can get into technique itself being an art, which isn't really what I'm trying to say).
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19246081 - 12/08/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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A garden IS art, you just choose not to percieve it as such.
its a mundane way to iive and it limits potential.
try looking at life as if every single thing is art, and realize that you are a 24/7 artist creating art in whatever you do.
Then you realize that you have power to alter your art to a degree and a huge shift in your worldview, confidence, and self empowerment might occur.
this idea kind of underpins philosophy in general.
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jewunit
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19246084 - 12/08/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, I think he would agree that a garden is art. He's saying that Zappa and I don't think a garden is art. At least that's what I think he means. I also think he's wrong, because I would very easily think a garden is art.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19246085 - 12/08/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: art is a piece of a work that someone has done, that is aesthetically pleasing to someone.
So if I take a dump and I think it is spiffy it is art?Quote:
and since you don't know what'll be art for someone, everything can then be considered a form of art, or at the very least artful; even if you don't think it's art; because if you like it, at all, it can conceived that someone could think that it's art.
Then you agree that the word has no meaning. Everything and anything is art. Why bother with the word?
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Shins
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19246090 - 12/08/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: I'm fairly open to things being art, but I don't think creation is inherently an artistic endeavor..
again I'd say that's because you lack the wisdom and perception to see it as such.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19246091 - 12/08/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Shins said:
It surely hss meaning, profound meaning to those wise and intelligent enough to perceive. I'm just sorry you aren't one of them.
he's just mad, cause in his world view, he's always right; hence WHY he's a carpenter.
he builds, and doesn't contribute to any art; becasue art doesn't exist, but existence of the word proves the existence of the concept, but only... NOT FOR HIM. even if he thinks his opinion of art not existing, applies to everyone else. he's being ludicrous.
Please tell me exactly what art is.
I will attempt.
Broadly speaking art is the changing of reality, more specifically it is the intentional changing of reality.
How does any act change reality?
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fapjack
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19246093 - 12/08/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you shit next to your exwifes door, and smear "True love" on her window is that not art?
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jewunit
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19246100 - 12/08/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
jewunit said: I'm fairly open to things being art, but I don't think creation is inherently an artistic endeavor..
again I'd say that's because you lack the wisdom and perception to see it as such.
Well this is a really fun conversation. You've really convinced me. Now I see.
For fucks sake I tried at least. You're just being an asshole.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: koods]
#19246104 - 12/08/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: All you gave a shit about was how much it could be sold to some shmuck for. How does that make it art or worth going out of your way to look at? Alex Rodriguez gets paid 25+ million dollars a year and performs at a mediocre MLB level. Is that art? The art of the deal?
Art is bunk.
What happened to those conservative values of something is worth what people are willing to pay in a free market?
I didn't say it wasn't worth what some shmuck would pay for it. I challenge the establishment of those values by some clique of effete custodians of taste. Which, sadly, so many of you seem to be willing to accept. Much of what is deemed art by these peckerheads doesn't even require skill or craft.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: fapjack]
#19246107 - 12/08/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said: If you shit next to your exwifes door, and smear "True love" on her window is that not art?
I ask you.
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Shins
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19246109 - 12/08/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Acts change reality through cause and effect. A skilled artist can know what causes create what acts and utilize it.
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Shins
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19246115 - 12/08/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Art doesn't have to require skill or craft. Your mind is stuck in a box.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19246132 - 12/08/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Acts change reality through cause and effect. A skilled artist can know what causes create what acts and utilize it.

"what causes create what acts and utilize it".
Oh do tell
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Shins]
#19246136 - 12/08/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Art doesn't have to require skill or craft. Your mind is stuck in a box.
So art is anything any douchebag says it is. Thanks for narrowing it down.
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deCypher



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19246282 - 12/08/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The back-and-forth repartee between various posters convinced they're right and everybody else is wrong in this thread is true art.
PROVE ME WRONG
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19246289 - 12/08/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: No thats not at all what I'm saying.
Maybe to try and articulate I'll briefly continue with your example. To me the act of putting seeds in the ground isn't an art. The act of putting paint to a surface isn't art. The action isn't the art.
To a certain extent (I'm sure we can get into technique itself being an art, which isn't really what I'm trying to say).
that's EXACTLY what i'm getting at too. the technique of doing the art, isn't what makes art art. it might make that art art for some people, but that's because they find that the technique is part of the aesthetic appeal. (see: Jackson Pollock; the guy would drip and throw paint at the canvas; that for some people and himself was part of the appeal to the aesthetic of the art)
how art is art, is the final product... the finish piece... the complete picture... and how someone "feels" about that, is what give the potential for something being art.
like i said earlier... even if for some people, it's the action that contributes to the art... regardless of that, it's NEVER the action that makes something art. it's never the artist, who "defines" the art. it's never like that in the world of art.
the artist is irrelevant; unless one is a fan... the ART however, is comprised of whatever someone (anyone) can see as art.
i'l post this again, because this is a Dadaist (and hilarious) example of what i mean...

this is art^ Duchamp put his name on trash and called it art... everyone agreed (not lol, but plenty of people...) plus, the artist even thought so... that makes it art; hilariously enough. (also the photographers photo can be considered art too)
(i think this is what pisses Zappa off so much... that this can be considered art )
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: deCypher]
#19246291 - 12/08/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: The back-and-forth repartee between various posters convinced they're right and everybody else is wrong in this thread is true art.
PROVE ME WRONG 
ie: shroomery's usual past-time... only about art now.
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jewunit
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19246304 - 12/08/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The only reason what Duchamp made is art (which is of course debatable to many people) is because this debate even exists. I don't think it's a very good example of what you're trying to say, unless I'm still not understanding.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19246317 - 12/08/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: No, I think he would agree that a garden is art. He's saying that Zappa and I don't think a garden is art. At least that's what I think he means. I also think he's wrong, because I would very easily think a garden is art.
the reference was for Zappa only. i wouldn't think you'd struggle with the concept of a garden as art; you did after all just said you wanted to visit a Museum earlier.Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: art is a piece of a work that someone has done, that is aesthetically pleasing to someone.
So if I take a dump and I think it is spiffy it is art?Quote:
and since you don't know what'll be art for someone, everything can then be considered a form of art, or at the very least artful; even if you don't think it's art; because if you like it, at all, it can conceived that someone could think that it's art.
Then you agree that the word has no meaning. Everything and anything is art. Why bother with the word?
first off: if you think your poo is art, fine, that makes it art. who would agree that it's art, though? that's what makes it "good art"; because it resonates with people (regardless of what other people think of it)
secondly: i think words are stupid, when they're begrudgingly used to set barriers for ideas. i think words are a form of art, in essence, because the "literary art" and "spoken word" (which from early antiquity up till now has been used as art; ie, poetry, tone poems ect) has allowed us to communicate better, hence, creating change in the world; and with which having said changes being made, allows us to produce more things that could be called art.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: jewunit]
#19246337 - 12/08/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: The only reason what Duchamp made is art (which is of course debatable to many people) is because this debate even exists. I don't think it's a very good example of what you're trying to say, unless I'm still not understanding.
no, you're right on point. people thought it was art, though, and people continue to... the Dadaist movement was HUGE and has continued on in the form of Futurism, Fluxus and then later this current century, Stuckism.
it's fundamentally art, because people think of it, and see it as art... even if it's anti-art, in prospect.
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Yage
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Crystal G]
#19246475 - 12/08/13 06:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
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Patlal said: It seems that most people don't get it. They think it's either good or bad. No analysis, nothing.
When you look at a painting, do you "feel" what the artist was doing?
When you watch figure skating, do you understand the story the skater is acting?
When you listen to a symphony, do you grasp the deeper sense of it?
Most people are clueless. It always seems like you need refined taste. Is it another level of intelligence you think? The ability to grasp the higher sense of art?
No. People can understand art by simply learning about it.
However, it does not take a high level of intelligence to understand art. Art is primal. Even primates create art.
Humans are primates too by the way.
Yes. My point was that humans evolved to create art as early as in the prehistoric era. So to me, it's not a sign of intelligence. It's something that exists in our primal nature.
That could be Crystal G. But it's important to evolve art. That's why people make witty and difficult to understand art. I think because so many people dropped that "instinct" all together, so the others still holding on can get some. Or maybe arts just made by people with mortality issues and want to pass something physical on. Or they didn't get to play in any reindeer games.
Edited by Yage (12/08/13 06:27 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: deCypher]
#19246480 - 12/08/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: The back-and-forth repartee between various posters convinced they're right and everybody else is wrong in this thread is true art.
PROVE ME WRONG 
Prove yourself right

I'm not trolling because I believe what I'm saying but I think the larger reason why I continue to go on is that there is an educational value for the youngsters and Canadians here.
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fapjack
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19246516 - 12/08/13 06:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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We might as well be arguing about what is or isn't funny. Your trolling is an art.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19246522 - 12/08/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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you can't educate, if you can't be educated.
you've provided no conjecture that would lead to any further understanding of your "point" and "education".
in fact, all you've had said other then "art is fake" and "i don't do art i execute" is some questions... which i and other have answered, and you've proved no response. i have to conclude, that you must not have a reasonable answer, other then simply repeating yourself.
which is ok, but don't call it education.
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Apollyphelion
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19248939 - 12/09/13 06:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think people calling Zappa names is kind of childish so I'll start with that.
BUT ANYWAY...
I think Zappa wants a definition as narrow as nail, but I think the definition of Art is more like an entire house, something broader. you have sculpting, painting, video, performance art etc.
One of the main qualities of art are the aesthetics involved, and these aesthetics can be aural, visual, or semantics. So for instance, the carpentry involved is not art, but the design itself IS art. So we have a porch which is functional, and the design of the porch is technically non functional. Columns are needed, but the decision as to whether those columns are doric, ionic or corinthian is art. Also, what the columns themselves look like is Art. Although art can be fully functional such as architecture, I would say broadly, art is non-functional.
I don't think people like to consider the people who design what Ikea furniture looks like as Artists, but they are. Art is what fills in the void of the necessary non-functional aesthetics that make life less mundane.
So to try to narrow it anyway for Zappa,
Art is the attempt to create pleasure (or pain if it floats your boat) through a non-functional means.
for you TECHINCALLY do not need sculpture, song, painting, aesthetics, but to give that up for pure practicality seems awfully regressive to me.
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JonnyBtreed




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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Apollyphelion]
#19248974 - 12/09/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I doubt there will ever be a time where people agree about what is, or isn't art.
Glass pipe artists have been dealing with this for many years. The movie Degenerate Art addresses the point well. Uppity glass artists like Paul Stankard, Milon Townsend, and in some cases even Robert Michelson look down at the Pipers and consider all of what they do to be trash, garbage, not worthy of ever being seen as art or labeled as such, simply because a bowl has been pressed in it.
Is something as simple as a pushed bowl enough to turn an amazingly beautiful piece of glass art into something not gallery worthy? It most certainly is to some people. It's especially so of master artists in the same medium. Why? Truly they can grasp the amount of work and dedication, heart and soul that went into a piece. Why can they not then label it as the art it is? Jealousy of the amazing skill of some of these "kids" who've only been working with glass for 5-10 years making more per piece than those working for 30-40+ years ,anger that they are destroying the image of their medium? Who knows? All we can do is speculate.
This goes to show that nobody will ever %100 agree that what they are seeing is art. Although the majority may feel that it is, there will always be those who simply cannot view it as such which is fine and natural. If you showed a single shade of color to 100 people you could guarantee there will be those who love it and those who hate it and many in between. Why would something as complex as some pieces of art be any easier to interpret or able to definitively be labeled as "art"?
So in this case it's actually those who are incredibly intelligent in the medium/art who look down on those who are unintelligent or uninformed looking at a piece of glass as art when they shouldn't. Almost the opposite of OPs original question, which is why I brought it up, lol.
Edited by JonnyBtreed (12/09/13 07:06 AM)
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: JonnyBtreed]
#19249476 - 12/09/13 10:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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My very first post in this thread was quite complete and concise and I have not seen one single respondent address it appropriately or thoughtfully. To wit
Quote:
I find the entire conceit of "art" to be a construct that allows the self anointed cognoscenti to look down their snouts at the bourgeoisie.
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Apollyphelion
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19249483 - 12/09/13 10:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Awww, not even mine? I gave you a pretty narrow definition, def.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19249495 - 12/09/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i find the entire conceit of "needing a jerb" to be a construct that allows the self anointed bourgeoisie to look down their snouts at the cognoscenti.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19249522 - 12/09/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: i find the entire conceit of "needing a jerb" to be a construct that allows the self anointed bourgeoisie to look down their snouts at the cognoscenti.
Huh? You're better than this akira. Think about it instead of just jerk the knee. Why is a painting smeared with shit art when a sidewalk smeared with shit not? Why is a cross in a vial of piss art and not watersports porn? They both offend some and delight some. I see no particular difference. Potter Stewart was a snob.
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fapjack
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19249523 - 12/09/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: My very first post in this thread was quite complete and concise and I have not seen one single respondent address it appropriately or thoughtfully. To wit
Quote:
I find the entire conceit of "art" to be a construct that allows the self anointed cognoscenti to look down their snouts at the bourgeoisie.
You sound like a self-anointed cognoscenti by criticizing people who value art.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19249553 - 12/09/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: i find the entire conceit of "needing a jerb" to be a construct that allows the self anointed bourgeoisie to look down their snouts at the cognoscenti.
Huh? You're better than this akira. Think about it instead of just jerk the knee. Why is a painting smeared with shit art when a sidewalk smeared with shit not? Why is a cross in a vial of piss art and not watersports porn? They both offend some and delight some. I see no particular difference. Potter Stewart was a snob.
hey, i have standards myself.
but art is what it is. if someone calls shit on a sidewalk art, it's art to that person. 
that person can make an installation just filled with turds of different shape and consistency, and say each one is a different piece. it'd be what that person thinks is art; so it's art. maybe not good art, but it's art.
some people think that porn is an art form. i'd argue you'd at least need some good lighting, but hey, who am i to say what's art for that person... one man's trash, is another person's art.
it's not worth debating. there is no level of consistency, these days, when it comes to art, rationale, or reason anyways.
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AntiEverything
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: Patlal]
#19249566 - 12/09/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i was kind of thinking about this recently and no, definitely not
everyone can appreciate art and i cant think of anybody who doesn't in some form or other.
art doesn't have to be sophisticated or old or ancient to be legitimate. most art that i see is contemporary and very easy for the current human to understand. "art" in the most general sense is the least esoteric thing i can think of that people are interested in, in this age especially, imo.
and also "zappa's" conceit of art argument is pretty damn non-unique. the bourgeoisie have used art to direct politics for centuries, you think this is something new? the poor use it to look down on the powerful? people who create classic and immortal art are many times rich. there is no correlation between class and art imo.
-------------------- You are at once both the quiet and the confusion of my heart. -Franz Kafka
Edited by AntiEverything (12/09/13 11:11 AM)
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deCypher



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: JonnyBtreed]
#19249972 - 12/09/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think the divisive question between both sides of the issue here, is:
Does the mere ability to call something 'art' make it art? A disused toilet in the back of a grimy lavatory probably isn't art, or so most people would think IMO, but if an artist takes that disused toilet and puts it in his art exhibit, does his labelling of it make it art?
Or does a group of people need to come to a consensus that something is art before it becomes art?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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psi
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: deCypher]
#19250096 - 12/09/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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When someone doesn't appear to have put much effort into the concept or execution of some "conceptual art" piece but manages to convince the right people that it's worth a lot of money, I'd say it's business that they are truly skilled at more than art. Good for them though. There seems to be a dynamic sometimes where people pretend to like art that they don't honestly see any value in personally, just because they think it's going to make them appear more intelligent or cultured.
Aside from all that though it seems like a stretch to say that the very idea of art is just bourgoise wankery. Music is an art form and in some circles you see the same kinds of dynamics. Certain people pretend to like "highbrow" music types that may actually bore them (e.g. classical, jazz) in order to appear intelligent and cultured, and others pretend to like experimental noise music in order to appear quirky and esoteric (not that there aren't also people who honestly enjoy such music.) None of that means that music in general is just about self-serving bullshittery though.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: psi]
#19250527 - 12/09/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Beethoven's Fifth. Sex Pistols' God Save the Queen. Akira Akuma banging on trash can lids. Who is an artist?
The entire conceit of art exists for the sole purpose of denigrating the supposedly ignorant hoi polloi who don't appreciate what the cognoscenti deem worthy and heightening the false self aggrandizement of those with useless degrees.
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psi
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19250634 - 12/09/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Beethoven's Fifth. Sex Pistols' God Save the Queen. Akira Akuma banging on trash can lids. Who is an artist?
The entire conceit of art exists for the sole purpose of denigrating the supposedly ignorant hoi polloi who don't appreciate what the cognoscenti deem worthy and heightening the false self aggrandizement of those with useless degrees.
The term "art" is used by some to exclude what they consider shitty art, but that isn't universally the case. Intent is a less subjective metric. If you're trying to make art or music, then that's what you've made even if I don't think it's very good.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: psi]
#19250686 - 12/09/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So you are basically saying the word has no meaning at all.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#19251081 - 12/09/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not quite, I'm saying that it has more than one meaning. This kind of thing happens a lot in English IME.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: psi]
#19251107 - 12/09/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That was very artistic. Like a Rembrandt or Da Vinci.
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psi
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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19251124 - 12/09/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks... I guess.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: psi]
#19251227 - 12/09/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is art is
[/end of stupid thread]
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fapjack
Title



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Re: Does it take a higher level of intelligence to understand art? [Re: zappaisgod]
#19252213 - 12/09/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: So you are basically saying the word has no meaning at all.
Its subjective, like is someone evil or are they good. What art means to you might mean the same to many, but not to all. I personally think my dick is a paintbrush and every time I fuck my girlfriend I'm making art. I don't however think the painting of Hawaii I put on her back is art.
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