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Icelander
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An age of dispair
#19243642 - 12/08/13 04:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is not a matter of simple reflection about his early family life, or even bringing to consciousness some of the most distasteful events of his childhood, or least of all a hard, rational scrutiny of one's motives. It is... going through hell of a lonely and racking rebirth where one throws off the lendings of culture, the costumes that fit us for life's roles, the masks and panoplies of our standardized heroisms, to stand alone and nude facing the howling elements as... a trembling animal element,... the disintegration of the self-esteem that sustains one's character... The question of personality growth and change, if it is deep-going and authentic, is usually if one will end in madness or suicide or whether one will, somehow, be able to marshall the strength to take the first few steps in a strange world. -Ernest Becker
??
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19243831 - 12/08/13 07:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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strength in being vunerable
swat i got from it
--------------------
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Chronic7]
#19243926 - 12/08/13 08:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said: strength in being vunerable
swat i got from it
Blessed are the meth drinkers Cheap hookers Grooooovy lookers Oh Lord? Why have You forsaken me?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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absols
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19243999 - 12/08/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I like to put a word here, from watching the reactions to the op...
actually no one wants to recognize true superiority, which happen on the individual freedom level of being, when objective free superiority is never a question nor doubted .. but individual free superiority is the question to kill, because any one would refuse to kill himself by recognizing another individual superiority...
so what would recognize true individual free superiority is what appreciate and respect positive truth in objective free means, so what actually is true, so what effectively is superior too then they would know how objective truth is plural existence and not one
that is why i say, those who see vulnerability as being some value ... i say caca on you and all vulnerable you could be forever ...
there is no value in being less or weak ... TRUTH ... what look obviously weak is caca anything tending to nothing or less is caca
only what has great potentials and never failed of being constantly positive source is right
TRUTH is TRUTH, words are not invented concepts to create of nothing possible equations .. nonsense
what people are living is real
what ones are shouting evil inferiority down, is the only way
we should not feel ashamed for not being evil ! it is absurd all that force now
it is clear, evil beings are disgusting inferiors, how can it be perceived otherwise
it is only because of infinite powers that are supporting evil life freedom when all existence is programmed from the beginning by unconscious evil ways ... so it become the only positive individual freedom ways in existence
then people don't say the truth of evil inferior faces because they mean the ends profits and nothing to the being fact
but what is objective so constant there is clearly seen .. there is nothing nice about it nor any value attached to .. it is inferiority infinite abject sense ..
what god make right free beings look weak or vulnerable is to god powers superficially and in depth by forcing negative limits of realities on their condition of being ... another weakness is not something to look at ... who claim believing that humans trait is weakness are liars ..
humans trait is intelligence of positive free ends, to know how being is first about being real through the most positive objective perspective, and to be free out of any positive individual possible move ... while there is always a way out and always a positive perspective present ...
death when it becomes real or pains are also sorted out of the same exclusive living ways ...
humans cant appear weak, they appear attacked by evil injustice or damned or forced to worse of else powers on them and everything... this is not about humans it is all to whatever shit to keep talking about ...
Edited by absols (12/08/13 09:01 AM)
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Tropism
ChasingTail


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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19244343 - 12/08/13 10:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
to stand alone and nude facing the howling elements as... a trembling animal element,..
Oh, Becker you poet. RIP It's tiny moments of connection like this that get me through it. It scrambles a tiny hope that we're not alone in this chaotic machine.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Tropism]
#19244437 - 12/08/13 10:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tropism said:
Quote:
to stand alone and nude facing the howling elements as... a trembling animal element,..
Oh, Becker you poet. RIP It's tiny moments of connection like this that get me through it. It scrambles a tiny hope that we're not alone in this chaotic machine.
Oh Hush. Becker isn't dead.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Tropism
ChasingTail


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na nana naa nana na nana naa 
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absols
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Tropism]
#19244602 - 12/08/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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of course we are forced to suffer alone, while surrounded by so much humiliating living hateful eyes and hands.. we are in hell ... others and else are only hell powers over individual freedoms rights and objective values ...
being alone is no problem .. when you will be you anywhere and anyhow how would that make any issue ..
look at you how you jump to conclude what you want disregarding facts you know and what is clearly meant by individuals
how do you look like here, you don't care but about powers attentions on you .. you don't care how you cannot ignore obvious crimes you see and more obvious innocents suffer you see too .. but you do ignore that and people like me must reply back.... how nothing is that useful for anything ??
nobody wants to accept nor understand that when you throw something down, it is still the same person but unfortunately for him he is objectively a thing to someone else source, who throw him is the present reference not him ... this knowledge is abused too like what you keep meaning to talk to victims, as inferiors that could justify evil powers existence .. okey your candy .. doggy
it is you the inferior thingy .. you reject any sense of being without supports or powers ... showing how inferiority is about powerful wills in lying all ways, starting by hitting down right individuals, to deal with them as nothing while ensure them being in shit
you are criminals... now where is the value in truth that would objectively point you as such clearly ?? lets see how all that will continue ... thriller i guess from truth
Edited by absols (12/08/13 11:55 AM)
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Tropism
ChasingTail


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Re: An age of dispair [Re: absols]
#19244738 - 12/08/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Allisterem
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19247228 - 12/08/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Awesome, thanks for sharing. Nothing is as exhilirating as stepping away from the safety of all you know to throw yourself into the wilderness of the world and say "I will explore and I will thrive"
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absols
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i don't know why everyone seem always willing to invent a positive end to anything else ...
when it is not about you, why cant you just see objectively then and admit the fact whatever relative or nothing clear that might be ... why that insistence to define something else, to an extent that it would all be of yourself speculations and nothing left to what it is still present thing you see ..
it is very wrong to bring everything to you, or to compare means and wills
you should know that anything must be seen in truth, when it is the reason of seeing and not you
if truth ends was positive, we wont be able to see such obvious negative life .. saying the truth is understanding the real issue so acting even symbolically free
you keep thinking that knowing is a bless or something positive to gain ... you prove how you cant know anything
if knowledge was a positive fact, it would mean that the knower is superior to the object known.. which is impossible, unless the object is negative and the knower is still innocent normal...
if what you know is superior like truth, you cant know it and the insistence to know would keep bringing the inferiority you and all possible moves
which prove how speculating on everything, that all is gonna be fine or alright is wrong..
only evil survive there so far.. since inferiority sense is what moves it to act free..like being kings of all shit possible, so superior in that sense of beliefs ..
don't contribute to make it an absolute fact, like all above our heads and around us and in us is evil shit .. it is already that but not an absolute fact .. there is still me and others .. star wars is coming .. I guess it is true !
Edited by absols (12/09/13 01:23 AM)
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Icelander
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Quote:
Allisterem said: Awesome, thanks for sharing. Nothing is as exhilirating as stepping away from the safety of all you know to throw yourself into the wilderness of the world and say "I will explore and I will thrive"
This quote is not about having adventures and leaving home for the first time. It's about facing impermanence and that is something much easier said than ever done. It's not a holiday at adventureland. It's facing our personal emptiness and seeing how we have become culture and without it we have no idea what is there. Although stated badly that's my 2 cents. Once you see through the veil you have no props or friends or anything to hold onto. Not even a self that survives. Nothing you have ever done seems to make any sense except as a fabricated lie to help you sleep at night.
Want to see what I'm talking about? Read Ernest Becker's Denial of Death.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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quinn
some kinda love


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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19248822 - 12/09/13 05:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i like that quote. my reactions to it waver between 'that is well written and true' and reservations that it's putting 'being outside of culture' on a pedestal as some enlightenment myth.
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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absols
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: quinn]
#19248878 - 12/09/13 06:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Denial of Death.
exactly, it must have a lot to do ..
like that constant way of pointing conscious forced beings as something to laugh about.. because all is one life always so it is just like a play of beings by forcing conscious to be limited negatively ... merde ! as if there is nothing but some pervert powers fun and creators bored wills .. to see what can be done with lies as livings ??
that is why there is no point to talk with such means and beliefs...
the end is the same thing from whatever angle you see it ... inferiors that cant in anyway look or mean without being carried by others wills alive by them .. that is why they are much more confident and positively being individuals
true individuals are not supported by truth life, true freedom life
but wrong individuals are supported fully by powers on true existence
they are never being, that is why they mean eternal life ... when they cant consider themselves existing they wont admit that anything exist, for them there cant be present, all must be done for positive pleasures or gains or goals to plan..
I ve been posting for about 10 years now, all sincere reactions to my posts, was about to ask me, what do I mean ?? they read what I say and maybe agree but it is missing a mean for them
as if any thing is always a mean, and if it is not a mean it is nothing or a lie or ego or emotional ... or puppet tool...
this is crucial point my friend, for the first time I am using that term .. it is funny and irritating when they call me that way ..
the mean ... also they mean that I must have the answer.. which is THE MEANING .. as if they are really looking for or caring about any mean to mean ..they love to use any honest other sense to project on powers life ..as if we can convince people that powers are the truth..
anyway, the mean..
that absolute way of seeing through means confirm how all is evil
as if, it is impossible to just do what is relatively right or support what is relatively in needs, or admit what is relatively true present fact, or any conscious obligations to realize since present too .. without any mean nor goals nor particular identity with ...
it is evil when one is convinced that he is someone because he wants something or mean something ... when one don't want to know how he is someone and keeps denying the logical obvious point, saying that since he is someone then others and else and infinite things and existence is true ...why would someone mean such huge fallacy ??
because of those powerful wills out of knowing that truth is also existence rights in the general sense of beings from the most inferior possible floor, that can become slightly above zero to start .. and they want to abuse that from the start ..
while it is still all but that always more where nothing is stopping to be even in concept because of how much living all had become the zero concept... so it wont stop of course ... imagine that it is stopping because we are saying it or rejecting it... NO
how are we saying, they will ask in the mean that we are nothing ???
it is literature yea sure ... who needs any proof before what or who ?? no proof needs when it comes to selves beings realizations, there cant be more present then selves conscious presence .. especially by using letters for individual wordings way .. we are present merde.. evil are not smarter with their constant inventions of new lies ..
this is the point I mean here, when lies are present clearly then honest expressions must be way more superior, so must be the present reference
even though being present is being killed, when all is evil .. but still it should look like that, right are killed evil is ruling .. not because absols or anyother poster are saying it in some forum ..it should look like that clearly objectively
Edited by absols (12/09/13 06:25 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: quinn]
#19248911 - 12/09/13 06:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said: i like that quote. my reactions to it waver between 'that is well written and true' and reservations that it's putting 'being outside of culture' on a pedestal as some enlightenment myth.
I can see how you might look at it that way. IME however if this be enlightenment it's pretty distressing. I'm saying that very lightly. But awhile ago I made a thread saying enlightenment would be the complete absence of DA and I really didn't think it was possible.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: absols]
#19248921 - 12/09/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know if this matters to you but I don't ignore your posts out of malice. They are just too difficult for me and I'm pretty lazy in old age truth be known. Nothing here is important enough anymore for me to want to strain to decipher it. I think at least part of the time you have something worthwhile to say but it's too much effort to get to (for me) and I don't feel the need to rag on you constantly about it. You might well be doing your very best to communicate here. I won't mention this again.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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absols
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19248975 - 12/09/13 07:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I don't know if this matters to you but I don't ignore your posts out of malice. They are just too difficult for me and I'm pretty lazy in old age truth be known. Nothing here is important enough anymore for me to want to strain to decipher it. I think at least part of the time you have something worthwhile to say but it's too much effort to get to (for me) and I don't feel the need to rag on you constantly about it. You might well be doing your very best to communicate here. I won't mention this again.
I know how my posts look like thanks for your open mind
Edited by absols (12/09/13 08:04 AM)
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19249008 - 12/09/13 07:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I don't know if this matters to you but I don't ignore your posts out of malice. They are just too difficult for me and I'm pretty lazy in old age truth be known. Nothing here is important enough anymore for me to want to strain to decipher it.

I'm not referring to absols but how i feel about most walls of text i see nowadays, i'm either ahead of the game as i'm half your age, or i'm just prematurely lazy... either way a simple life is sweeter me thinks
--------------------
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Into The Woods
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19249044 - 12/09/13 07:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am going to get around to reading that book, eventually. Thanks for reminding me that I bought it. 
I've got a couple of other things that I plan on reading first, but I'll move it up on the list.
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absols
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Chronic7]
#19249104 - 12/09/13 08:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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life is always evil in truth
true existence is only through free ways, which get to true identities realities .. like being present with what is around as present else, which is never related to what you are .. what you are is shown through your free moves out of staying conscious looking at all and being present.. what you enjoy what you are the most source of while being caring about and positive constantly through..
life is through confusing oneself with others .. the idea of marriage is for life with more different things so life expand ... it is wrong because through confusions all truth rights are killed while there cant be anything real anymore so existence would look like negative which is absurd !
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Allisterem
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19249551 - 12/09/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Allisterem said: Awesome, thanks for sharing. Nothing is as exhilirating as stepping away from the safety of all you know to throw yourself into the wilderness of the world and say "I will explore and I will thrive"
This quote is not about having adventures and leaving home for the first time. It's about facing impermanence and that is something much easier said than ever done. It's not a holiday at adventureland. It's facing our personal emptiness and seeing how we have become culture and without it we have no idea what is there. Although stated badly that's my 2 cents. Once you see through the veil you have no props or friends or anything to hold onto. Not even a self that survives. Nothing you have ever done seems to make any sense except as a fabricated lie to help you sleep at night.
Want to see what I'm talking about? Read Ernest Becker's Denial of Death.
I didn't miss the message, my reply was poorly written. Thank you for the suggestion, I will look into that read.
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Icelander
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Yeah I wasn't sure but I made that reply anyway more to clarify in general. That book wrecked my life. Read it at your own risk.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HeartAndMind


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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19249852 - 12/09/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey Icelander, can you sum up Denial of Death in few sentences? It seems like another belief to follow and live by, no?
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Icelander
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just try living by it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HeartAndMind


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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19250011 - 12/09/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why It seems terrible.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19250137 - 12/09/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: just try living by it. 
Death can come at any minute.
--------------------
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absols
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Icelander said: just try living by it. 
Death can come at any minute.

it is a funny image but it is a lie.. created for powers image being all of any being.. as if you can be happy if you have a duck in your bathroom .. you will become out of duck totem, you .. so for everyone to feel happy too in knowing that you are never you or that you don't exist so else can never exist so they can invent to exist better by seeing what cant be ..
it is all a market of abuse
Edited by absols (12/09/13 02:26 PM)
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Sse
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: absols]
#19250792 - 12/09/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Kickle
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Sse]
#19251270 - 12/09/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: It is not a matter of simple reflection about his early family life, or even bringing to consciousness some of the most distasteful events of his childhood, or least of all a hard, rational scrutiny of one's motives. It is... going through hell of a lonely and racking rebirth where one throws off the lendings of culture, the costumes that fit us for life's roles, the masks and panoplies of our standardized heroisms, to stand alone and nude facing the howling elements as... a trembling animal element,... the disintegration of the self-esteem that sustains one's character... The question of personality growth and change, if it is deep-going and authentic, is usually if one will end in madness or suicide or whether one will, somehow, be able to marshall the strength to take the first few steps in a strange world. -Ernest Becker
??
I think it's a neat quote. I bounce somewhat between making the most out of a hopeless situation and being swallowed by its overpowering presence. I'd put myself closer to madness than suicide. I think enduring in the shadow of death is always a madness of sorts. Just look at the man who broke and then sawed his own arm off with the knife on his multi-tool after being pinned by rocks (Aron Ralston). Madness. Any movement towards survival is this same madness in a lesser form. It is a will to survive in the face of what is guaranteed to be full of trials and tribulations with an end result of death. And that's putting it mildly.
All the same it's a relative experience. Each of us is tasked with determining how much of our own madness we can endure. No matter where you go, there you are.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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r72rock
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19251497 - 12/09/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Yeah I wasn't sure but I made that reply anyway more to clarify in general. That book wrecked my life. Read it at your own risk. 
It wrecked your life? Sorry to hear it had that effect on you.
I'd recommend the book still. It's one of my favorites. It gets right at the heart of the human condition imo.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Icelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: r72rock]
#19251515 - 12/09/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You think you're sorry. 
Actually my life was already wrecked but I wasn't fully conscious of it or knew why exactly. Thanks O'Becker.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19251895 - 12/09/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think it wrecked your life as much as it 'wrecked' my own. From what I can tell, it's pushed you toward a deeper and more realistic understanding of your being a rotting meat bag in this weirdness that is being alive. I make this assumption based on your current signature as well... As it reflects a peace being sought or found in the emptiness, for a lack of better words.
I was beginning to draw very similar conclusions to Becker's before this forum introduced me to his works. To be honest, it was a breath of fresh air and made me feel like my thoughts were not so unique and fringe-y, which to some I guess would be a disappointment, but for myself was a huge relief as I no longer thought I may have the potential burden of having to articulate these observations to the world. 
I wrote this on a whim yesterday, the very nature of what this discussion happens to be about was its muse...
"Prepackaged tasks crafted collectively as masks to hide our horrified expressions of discomfort born of directionless paths, nothing bitter about this, just emptiness that culture has defended us against, death will teach us to forget ourselves once on the other side of the fence..."
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Icelander
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We'll if you don't think that you might be wrong. That signature is a hope for something rather than something I'm able to live with any degree of force.
It sure sounds nice though. I just altered it a bit and the first line now is inspired by a Procol Harum album .
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Raven Gnosis
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19252395 - 12/09/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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In what way did it make your life a wreck if you don't mind my asking?
Was it a proverbial opening of Pandora's box that challenged so deeply the validity of your paradigm that it resulted in disillusionment strong enough to upset the everyday patterns of your existence, leaving you lost, naked and afraid?
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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absols
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what I hate the most, is the way to make victims act in terms of buying their beings of worse done on them ..
you cannot talk about negative things objectively, they don't exist
so when you are negative in constant way of being, it is more the fact that it is not you, and surely you know that, why do buy you there and try desperately to sound deep ??? why do you lie ??
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absols
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: In what way did it make your life a wreck if you don't mind my asking?
Was it a proverbial opening of Pandora's box that challenged so deeply the validity of your paradigm that it resulted in disillusionment strong enough to upset the everyday patterns of your existence, leaving you lost, naked and afraid?
if you don't mind me asking.. how did you see Icelander that way, the poster you know, a naked trembling awareness frightened of realizing being inferior and weak ??? why don't you imagine that about yourself ?? because he said an honest word about humans condition ?? then it became him asking you to feel secure to climb on his back as if he is not protected by powers or pointed to all being the slave condition and you the boss ones maybe ??
im joking of course.. but how can you talk like that to another ??
Edited by absols (12/10/13 03:21 AM)
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Icelander
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: In what way did it make your life a wreck if you don't mind my asking?
Was it a proverbial opening of Pandora's box that challenged so deeply the validity of your paradigm that it resulted in disillusionment strong enough to upset the everyday patterns of your existence, leaving you lost, naked and afraid?
yup. Well I've always been afraid due to a very insecure childhood but I had developed a few nicely protective shields that were however slowly eroding. Becker showed me how everything is a shield and that was the end of those and of course being be me I tried to use that knowledge as a shield dropping everything else. Doesn't work that well so far. 
Having said that I think progress is being made. I seem to have much less active DA then in my recent past. I seem more open to life being possibly meaningless, the "I" that I identify being nothing more than a convenient construct and my imminent demise.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (12/10/13 07:05 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: absols]
#19254157 - 12/10/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
absols said:
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: In what way did it make your life a wreck if you don't mind my asking?
Was it a proverbial opening of Pandora's box that challenged so deeply the validity of your paradigm that it resulted in disillusionment strong enough to upset the everyday patterns of your existence, leaving you lost, naked and afraid?
if you don't mind me asking.. how did you see Icelander that way, the poster you know, a naked trembling awareness frightened of realizing being inferior and weak ??? why don't you imagine that about yourself ?? because he said an honest word about humans condition ?? then it became him asking you to feel secure to climb on his back as if he is not protected by powers or pointed to all being the slave condition and you the boss ones maybe ??
im joking of course.. but how can you talk like that to another ?? 
I really don't think he sees me as being inferior and weak. That's my job. 
He's just curious as there might be something in my situation that could apply and help him deal with his situation. I'd ask the same questions if I didn't know the answers.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19254159 - 12/10/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Knowledge comes with death's release.
Quicksand.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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absols
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19254187 - 12/10/13 07:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I really don't think he sees me as being inferior and weak. That's my job. 
He's just curious as there might be something in my situation that could apply and help him deal with his situation. I'd ask the same questions if I didn't know the answers.
I was only trying to say something originally right very relatively, it is of freedom being when we must stay still, so hours pass faster when the being is free, less boring I guess..
Edited by absols (12/10/13 07:35 AM)
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Icelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: absols]
#19254207 - 12/10/13 07:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh I agree.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Middleman

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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19254635 - 12/10/13 10:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've mentioned before that Becker kind of leaves you hanging. Finding one's way back out of the labyrinth is even harder than slaying the minotaur (DA).
Have you read The Hero With A Thousand Faces? The last half of the book (The Hero's Return) is very helpful.
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Icelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Middleman]
#19254655 - 12/10/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's JC right? I haven't read it. At this stage of the game I make my own plans on how to play this out. If I'm going to fuck up I want to know it was by taking my own advice and not some other lost soul.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Middleman

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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19254669 - 12/10/13 10:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, good luck with that. 
The flax for the linen of his thread he has gathered from the fields of the human imagination. Centuries of husbandry, decades of diligent culling, the work of numerous hearts and hands, have gone into the hackling, sorting, and spinning of this tightly twisted yarn. Furthermore, we have not even to risk the adventure alone; for the heroes of all time have gone before us; the labyrinth is thoroughly known; we have only to follow the thread of the hero-path. And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves, where we had though to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence; where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with the whole world. - J. Campbell
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Icelander
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Middleman]
#19254713 - 12/10/13 10:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know this. I'm not saying I won't be building on the shoulders of everyone who has ever influenced me. I guess I didn't say that well. What I'm saying is that at my age I've heard and gotten all the information I need to be making my own choices now. For instance I haven't heard a truly unique subject on these forums in years.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Middleman

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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19255283 - 12/10/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Me neither.
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r72rock
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19255463 - 12/10/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Rev. Morton said: I've mentioned before that Becker kind of leaves you hanging. Finding one's way back out of the labyrinth is even harder than slaying the minotaur (DA).
Have you read The Hero With A Thousand Faces? The last half of the book (The Hero's Return) is very helpful. 
Quite a lot of Becker Scholars (people who took up Becker's work after he pasted) are existential psychotherapists, theologians, and others of pastoral consoling. The existential psychotherapists that I mentioned draw heavily from Becker, Joseph Campbell and Rollo May. (May wrote The Cry for Myth.)
Myth's give us a way, kind of like a map, to orientation ourselves in the world. That's at least May's conclusion.
Quote:
Icelander said: For instance I haven't heard a truly unique subject on these forums in years.
I think that's part of the majority of the mentality that the users here hold. At lot of people here subscribe to points in existentialism, even if they don't label themselves as existentialists. I mean, I do too. That's partly why I come here for the like mindedness of the people who post here.
EDIT: Some grammatical touch ups.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
Edited by r72rock (12/10/13 01:39 PM)
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Raven Gnosis
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19256360 - 12/10/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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absols, you simply misunderstood the place from which I was asking the question.
Ice, I too had a very insecure childhood for many different reasons and have been through the very kind of thing I was asking you about in my last post...
I often refer to the fruits of what I sought as bitter wisdom, as the 'truth' and 'bigger picture' was not what I hoped it to be or imagined... Much more impersonal than seems humanly bearable... I think most people want magic and comfort and there, I don't think they will find the wisdom they claim to seek.
These past few years have been quite dark for me, until I discovered for myself that meaninglessness and happiness are by no means counterparts to one another, that I don't need meaning where there clearly isn't necessarily any to walk a path that will help me die in peace...
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Icelander
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I hear ya.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
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Re: An age of dispair [Re: Icelander]
#19258784 - 12/11/13 05:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Icelander
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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