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Neuromancer ☿ Registered: 05/21/09 Posts: 1,037 Last seen: 2 years, 3 months |
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Quote: You'e kidding right? Let me pick it apart for you, bone for bone:"True, I may understand it better than some." You first openly imply that you understand christianity better than some. The sentence is clearly in the present tense and the word 'may' doesn't change that It merely introduces a humbling element to your sentence, which I doubt is entirely genuine. More like means to stay ambiguous, since you're walking on thin ice. So by this point, right now, you humbly believe that you may understand the bible better than some people do.Moving on. "I used to be like you, and felt that I had a deeper understanding of Christianity than the average person." This sentence comes literally moments after the one that we just analysed beforehand. Said sentence implies that you no longer feel like you have an understanding of christianity that runs deeper than that of the average person aka "some". Apparently, you used to think that you did, but I can't quite make out why you'd think that that made you anything like me... So unless by saying 'used to feel that I had a deeper understanding' you mean that you changed your mind immediately after writing the first sentence where you clearly imply that you may have better knowledge on the bible than some, whilst now you do not- then you have clearly successfully contradicted yourself. But wait! I will take it a step further! How did it happen? Why did you contradict yourself without having the intention to? Well, your mistake was that you tried to use the good ol' 'i used to be like you' cliche that is very popular for obvious reasons among religious apologists and zealots alike. In your attempt to put yourself on higher grounds you managed to contradict your own opinion of yourself. Pride is a sin right? Well... ![]() Please don't try to 'metaphorise' yourself out of this one or try to tell me that one needs to 'know how to read your sentence in order to get it'. Just because I put little Deviate chapters under them doesn't mean it's the bible. Likewise, just because you put little chapters under some guy named David doesn't mean I have to interpret around his words either. If David said something down the lines of: "God said thus- take the city, pillage and burn it. Kill the men. Take all the women for your pleasure." Then that is what he fucking said in the name of god. There's no divine interpretation. dealwithit.gif Quote: You did not make your point, all you made is a straw man; you took a single point, (vaguely) debunked it and pretend that has debunked the entire thing ![]() Oh well, I'll make sure to note that 'interpretation' means 'waltzing around issues' in Christianity then ![]() I can understand how debunking christian scripture contradictions can seem a tad difficult when you can't even debunk your own How do I know that I am not sinful? Because I am not anything anyone else tells me that I am. Especially not in the case of being told what you are, not because of your actions, but merely because you have come into existence. That is a privilege reserved for me and me alone. Let me at the very least retain this single, most sacred right. May others define me by my actions and I will define myself by my faith, and not let other's faith define me. I judge what is spiritually sound by my virtues of spirituality. In my truly humble opinion on the matter, the virtues of spirituality are such that they should empower, enrich and deepen one's mind from the start so that one may, through one's own path, connect to his or her vision of divinity, sublimity, happiness and well-being to live a fulfilling and gratifying life until the day that death and transformation leads you on to whatever mystery awaits, smiling. The virtues of spirituality should not be to accuse, humiliate and coerce one to bow and grovel for the said things after you die. To add- when people ask for eternal life after death instead of a fulfilling life, that shows the inability to accept death. All in all, that is what I judge to be spiritually unsound. And the perpetuation of such unsound spiritual frameworks that have come to serve all the wrong reasons such as political control, even if in the past, is a crime against the pure, brilliant, potent, vulnerable and innocent mind of a child (for whom they most often come). If you have no desire to argue about it then don't bring it up ![]() We were originally not arguing about subjective things until you posted what that priest thought about the human soul (which is a subjective thing). We were arguing about the various contradictions of the bible until you started making your own ones. And that, my friend, is another perfect circle for you.
-------------------- ![]() "Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions." "So you believe in intensions?" "No. I believe in being genuine."
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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Thanks again. You really know how to help us tired (of debating with the religious) old guys out.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 8 years, 5 months |
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SOrry but some and average don't mean the same thing. Some could mean all of two people.
Quote: Great, thats your opinion. SPirituality can be very subjective because of the fact that there are infinite ways to express spiritual concepts. Christianity has always maintained that we were created in the image of God, but because of something called sin which means "missing the mark" evil entered the picture and caused widespread corruption. You can think and say whatever you like but the fact is that there is a ton of spiritual food for the soul within CHristianity. Maybe other religions appeal to you more. Maybe some of the things that have been done in the name of Christianity upset you. I don't really care. It doesnt change the fact that Christianity is one of the great religions.
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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While you may be right that christianity has some food for the soul it's also true that it's a very dangerous (along with its Muslim cousin) religion in how it is often used.
That being the case if I were one I'd keep it to myself and walk that path alone and never proselytize. And it seems to me that if one were awake enough to see that soul food they would easily realize it has little to do with any religion per se. It can be found pure and alone without the negatives each religion brings to the mix. That's how I play the hand anyway.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Neuromancer ☿ Registered: 05/21/09 Posts: 1,037 Last seen: 2 years, 3 months |
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I know that many people tend to ignore their opponents posts after a certain 'I've made my point' kind of post, but oh well...
Quote: I'm not interested in debating exactly how many people you had in mind in either sentence, as it is irrelevant. Point is that you contradicted yourself by stating that you currently know christian scripture better than some in sentence A and then that you used to think you had better understanding on christian scripture in sentence B. Sentence A and B are directly in conflict in terms of tense (being present vs past), thus meaning that you either abandoned what you believed in in sentence A right after saying it, that sentence B is a lie or that you contradicted yourself by trying to put yourself on higher moral grounds by comparing your spiritual achievements to my own. Neither really makes you look very consistent Quote: Yes it is. But saying 'that's you're opinion' doesn't make what I said any less valid. Especially when I can substantiate my opinion and all you do is point to your interpretations that so conveniently separates any undesirable history, traits or individuals and their actions on the behalf of christianity from your own narrow vision of it. You are right, there are many ways to express spiritual concepts. And if you find whatever version of christianity you believe in- sound, then that's great just don't expect me or others to go with it and respect a faith that believes everyone who aren't following it will suffer eternally and that those who are will be rewarded. This sort of elitism is unsatisfactory and it is the driving force behind all the wicked things christianity has wrought upon others in this world. Even today, when virtually no one is threatening christianity directly (with it being the great religion and all) we, who just want to live our lives and have nothing to do with it still have to suffer the sheer ignorance, zeal and judgmental attitude of its followers and preachers. We still have to bypass their morally superior attitude when some form of new discovery in science or social change due to progressive thinking occurs. Why? I am not going to turn the other cheek. I will challenge it now and then. "Until the philosophy which hold one race superior / And another / Inferior / Is finally / And permanently / Discredited / And abandoned / -Everywhere is war - / Me say war." Imagine 'race' being 'spiritual race'. There's ton of spiritual food in christianity? Then by all means, Deviate. Consume on. But it's always nice to see the real face of a christian. You just don't care what your faith has done to others and you rigidly deny all substantiated accusation (most with a "no true Scotsman" logical fallacy). So, you think it's all about christianity remaining one of the great religions? Being all "It doesn't change the fact that Christianity is one of the great religions". Just for the record; it is only so because many people follow it, which doesn't make it any more right. Appealing to numbers in this way is an empty argument. Also. It is not so surprising to see so many people following it since its framework is that of self-perpetuating herd mentality and manipulation. Christianity's only strength seems to lie in the numbers of its followers and that is not a positive thing concerning how philosophies with far fewer followers have remained in the mind of man due to their relevancy and depth. ![]() Quote:
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newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 8 years, 5 months |
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Your opinion is valid for you, no one else.
Quote: First off that's not even what Christianity teaches. The Bible says "34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God shows no favoritism 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." and the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that anyone from any religion can be saved. So it would be nice if you could at the very least state things that were factual. But aside from that, I actually do expect you to respect Christianity. If you were a true spiritual seeker, then I would expect you to respect all other true spiritual seekers everywhere, from every religion. If you truly loved the Truth, I would expect you to have at least some respect for ALL expressions of the truth, especially the world's great religions which have benefited so many souls on their spiritual paths. Not to do so is pure arrogance and egoism in my opinion. You can't only bring up the bad parts, or if you acknowledge the good, it's only the good Christianity did in the WORLD. But religion is not just about improving the world, it is about bringing enlightenment to the soul. You cannot ignore all the souls who found salvation in Christianity, and we have no way of knowing what that number is, so you really are not qualified to assess Christianity. This sort of elitism is unsatisfactory and it is the driving force behind all the wicked things christianity has wrought upon others in this world. Even today, when virtually no one is threatening christianity directly (with it being the great religion and all) we, who just want to live our lives and have nothing to do with it still have to suffer the sheer ignorance, zeal and judgmental attitude of its followers and preachers. We still have to bypass their morally superior attitude when some form of new discovery in science or social change due to progressive thinking occurs. Quote: Oh please I dont think I can take any more hypocrisy. Can't you see that you are acting judgmentally and morally superior? You are just like those you hate. By the way, Christianity teaches its followers to conduct themselves in complete humility, and not to judge lest they be judged. If some Christians are not yet mature enough to adhere to these principles, then instead of judging them, you could gently point that out to them. Quote: Ok, I will imagine that it is you and you are holding that you are superior to Christians so you just discredited yourself. Nice job. Quote: No, I simply believe that people need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming their problems on religion. Quote: No, it is a great religion because it has a lot to offer one spiritually. I know this from experience. Look, I am a spiritual seeker. I seek spiritual understanding and peace of mind. Both of these are very much lacking in our world. Therefore, I take great interest in and have much respect for anything that leads people to look beyond the material world in search of spiritual truth. Christianity most certainly fits this bill. Now if you were an atheist I could understand your disdain for Christianity, but if you accept the value of something like Buddhism, then in my humble opinion, it is ridiculous not to respect Christianity. Why? Because you personally dislike some of the social effects? Social divisions and conflicts were bound to happen as a result of any religion based on the worship of God. Buddhism probably appeals to you because it is not based on the worship of a god. Does that mean Buddhism is a "better" religion than Christianity? Of course not. It's just different, that's all. If you would stop seeing the world through your preconvieved notions like the Buddhists advise, then you would see that. You would simply see things how they are minus the judgments of this thing is good and this other thing is bad. That doesn't mean you cant speak your mind and try to reform things which you see as less than optimal, but it does mean you treat what is sacred to others with respect. I am sorry you cannot understand that. Btw, I am sorry for coming off as sarcastic and contentious in this post. This is not how I prefer to interact, but if you refuse to show any respect then what else can I do but point out the hypocrisy? I think the better approach is to respect everyone, because everyone is doing their best with the knowledge they have. If Christians behave disrespectuflly toward some other group, it is because they are not yet enlightened enough to see a higher way. But if they adhere to the principles of Christianity, one day they will be enlightened enough and that is why I respect Christianity. I respect any path that leads to enlightenment. Doesn't mean I cant criticize it (for example, I have lots of criticism for certain protestant heresies) but that doesnt mean I dont still respect protestants. Edited by Deviate (12/04/13 12:36 PM)
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Neuromancer ☿ Registered: 05/21/09 Posts: 1,037 Last seen: 2 years, 3 months |
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Way to ignore that you've been proven to contradict yourself
no "my mistake?" no "christian humility"? anyhoo! Quote: An opinion becomes valid and worthy of discussion when it is substantiated, which mine is. And you have up until this moment continuously failed to address any of my points directly. But now that you (somewhat) have, let get to it! Quote: Is it not? You sure about that, Deviate? You're telling me that the bible makes no reference to that those who do not believe in jesus christ will be condemned whatsoever? Quote: Quote: Quote: Are you going to interpret your way out of those as well? Are you gonna say that believing in jesus is just a metaphor for being spiritual? Then why try to convert people from every religion or non-religion to your own faith in the first place? Why state that heathens and other religions got it wrong? In my experience every person that strives for personal sublimity, the finer things in life and have a general appreciation for existence are spiritual in one form or the other. Why is christianity trying to monopolise the brand of spiritual symbolism and tradition? Dedicating entire centuries to LITERALLY demonising other forms of spirituality. You're asking me to respect that? You may not feel the same way about other religions and forms of spirituality, but the very teachings of the christian faith and the actions of its institutions throughout history obviously play a very different tune. They would most likely, if they'd know, call you out for a heretic. Oh great! Just look at the verse you quoted; "he who feareth him" More fear driven faith, ay? You just proved my point. The Catechism of the Catholic Church may very well state that anyone from any religion may be 'saved'. Which is just a sneaky way of saying we accept converts from all religions since being saved means becoming a christian ![]() Quote: Sad will be the days, when calling someone out on their bullshit in a substantiated manner and asking for an adequate explanation, will be thought of as judgemental moral superiority ![]() Please don't use the "you are as those you hate" cliche. First of all I don't hate the christian faith, I merely find the way it is operating as an organised religion to be intrusive and damaging to the human psyche. That wouldn't bother me so much if I could just go about my own spiritual and moral business, but sadly they are often up in people's faces to the point where they walk up to your door. The nerve! Quote: That doesn't surprise me since you often tend to imagine and interpret your way around the facts to make ends meet by all means, ignore the fact that I specifically spoke about how no spiritual practise should be considered superior than another and therefore people should just keep their faith to themselves without making a big organised deal out of themselves with bling-bling like christianity. I did not start wars to prove that I am superior to christians. Christians on the other hand have been involved in countless war of faith. I do not hold myself superior to christians in terms of spirituality. I merely criticise their actions and how they go about mentally damaging people. Once again: Sad will be the days, when calling someone out on their bullshit in a substantiated manner and asking for an adequate explanation, will be thought of as judgemental moral superiority. Quote: Oh sure! Is that what you would have told the bright people in the inquisition's dungeons? It that what you'll tell the child frightened and mentally scarred by christian guilt-ridden teachings? Or the child molested by the keepers of your faith that suppresses sexuality to the point were it becomes a secret obsession for many?Quote: Riiiight... it definitely has nothing to do with the fact that historically, the seat of the church has a hand in every aspect of politics. From crowning of kings to expansions of other countries. Nothing to do with the fact that conquistadors brought christianity to another continent (after slaughtering those who believed in Xotec of course). Nothing to do with the historical facts of conquering and the forced spread of the christian faith. Of course it was because the entire world just picked up on it- since its so great! you sure are naive. Just because many people talk english in the world doesn't mean the english language is great (it is wonderful though). It just means England owned 1/4 of the entire planet once ![]() Quote: By all means, seek your inner peace and spiritual understanding. I am not belittling you or spirituality for that matter. Just because christianity points to some spiritual experience doesn't mean that that is little more than the cheese hanging in front of the rat-wheel. I respect Buddhism for obvious reasons. I do not wholly agree with some minor aspects in their religion, but all in all- it's solid and it's culturally beneficial as it is mentally reassuring without the need to interpret yourself into it. It is one of the prime examples if organised religion that does work, in contrast to countless others, among which are christianity, that (at least currently) don't. If social division and conflict was, in your own words, bound to happen why did we just sit back and go "okay" at that? Just because it's bound to happen- then it suddenly becomes okay? The west prides itself for being such good problem solvers and logical lords, looks like we overlooked that one. I do not prefer buddhism to christianity because buddhism has no 'god' and christianity does. It is their actual behaviour that concerns me, not the details of their spiritual blueprint. I see things how they are. I see christianity for what it is. Not for what I'd want it to be or what it ideally should be, as is clearly your own case. Concerning bad and good- these are notions christianity are obsessed with, so stop projecting. I speak my mind. And in a darker time when christianity was at its strongest, attempting to do just that or seek reform would end with a manhunt, stakes and fire. So I am glad the age of reason has brought us to this moment in time were we can finally criticise what we do not like about christianity. And I cannot bring myself to respect it entirely. I only respect that it is a form of spirituality and that some people are genuinely struggling within it to have their spiritual experience. And that's because I respect people who are spiritual, i do not dismiss them as spiritual seekers and I do not dismiss you. However it pains me to see them (and you) wasting time with the christian faith, not to mention the fact that more people in christianity, means more enforcement of all the negative things we have talked about for a while now at the very least try to reform something and make the religion mature so we can lay it all to rest
-------------------- ![]() "Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions." "So you believe in intensions?" "No. I believe in being genuine."
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Neuromancer ☿ Registered: 05/21/09 Posts: 1,037 Last seen: 2 years, 3 months |
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Quote: I don't think either of us do. I respect the spiritual path. I respect you. But I do not respect the overall behaviour of Christianity and I have substantiated over and over as to why. While it is true that they may not be enlightened enough to see a higher way, that doesn't make them any less christian. Thus the general view on christianity is be-smudged. So why not stop excluding them and just abandon ship; do something better instead? Just sayin -------------------- ![]() "Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions." "So you believe in intensions?" "No. I believe in being genuine."
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newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 8 years, 5 months |
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I don't get a clear sense of what you are saying anymore. On the one hand you say :
"First of all I don't hate the christian faith, I merely find the way it is operating as an organised religion to be intrusive and damaging to the human psyche." Ok, no argument there. I never said it was perfect. That doesn't mean you can't still respect it though. " However it pains me to see them (and you) wasting time with the christian faith I specifically spoke about how no spiritual practise should be considered superior than another " These two statements seem to contradict each other. Who are you to say that people are wasting their time? and in the post as saying no spiritual practice should be considered superior to another? give me a break. I learned some great spiritual techniques from Christianity and you're telling me they are a waste of time? Ok then I challenge you to teach me something more effective. Quote: True but my concern is not whether English is the best language or even whether people english properly but rather does English work as a language? The answer is yes. When applied to Christianity, does it work as a spiritual practice? the answer is also yes. Now your argument is like saying you have no respect for the english language because english speaking people massacred the indians and enslaved blacks. Just because they spoke english does not mean it was the cause of the evil they committed and similarly just because people were Christians doesnt their religion was the cause of the evil they committed. Even the crusades had causes more complex than just Christianity. The whole culture of europe was a warring culture. Do you think that if europe had been a peaceful culture and then Jesus came, the people would have fought wars because of him then? Or if he hadnt come do you think there would have been peace? People would just have found something else to fight over, like they always did. You cannot separate Christianity out from the cultures it took root in and act as if you know exactly what it did. Quote: No, you do not have to respect every single thing done by Christians in order to have respect for it as a religion and spiritual tradition. WHy do you always focus on the bad rather than the good? What about all the souls who found their inner divinity through Christianity? Why don't you talk about what a wonderful thing Christianity did for them? Of course Christianity is going to look bad if you only focus on the negative. As for why they tried to monopolize spirituality, I already explained that that was bound to happen, especially with a religion that honors a specific god. The problem here is that you are attributing the abuses of Christianity to Christianity itself, as though it were somehow at fault for what its supposed followers did. To me that is ridiculous. Whenever a religion grows as large as Christianity, you are going to have countless people who claim to follow it but really only care about themselves. And then people in the church often wanted power, not a good thing but this doesnt change the value of Christian spirituality at all. I am evaluating christianity not how it affected the world (which is impossible to say) but on its merit as a spiritual practice. You seem to be evaluating it based on how you perceive it to have effected history, which is impossible because you have no idea how many souls were saved by Christianity or how history would have enfolded had another religion rose to power in its place. You also have to consider that there were many heresies and false gods being worshiped in Biblical times and that is one reason Christianity became intolerant of other faiths. There is a difference between religions which teach worship of temporal things, like sun gods and moon gods and religions which direct one to the eternal. This is the reason Christians look on other religions with suspicion. Now I happen to be educated enough on spiritual matters to understand that not all non Christian religions are heretical, both Buddhism and Hinduism for example, direct one to the eternal just like Christianity. But this is why historically Christianity had to take a stand against other religions. It couldn't say well yeah its cool to be Christian but its just as valid to worship a log or an animal, becausse a fundamental tenet of the Christian faith is that you are not to worship things like logs and animals, but to seek the almighty eternal God. Edited by Deviate (12/04/13 03:54 PM)
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newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 8 years, 5 months |
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Quote: It can certainly be found without religion but religion offers itself as aide. In my experience, enlightenment is difficult to attain, so why not take advantage of the aids which are available? To really understood my motivation in becoming Catholic though, you need to understand a little bit about my spiritual journey. I had a kundalani awakening (or something, I dont really know what it was) at age 20 and through drugs I was able to launch myself into a very high state of conscousness, my mind was almost completely still and silent and I lived that way in peace and bliss for about 2 months. However, I had had no religious training, had no faith in God and did not even know how to pray. As a result of my ignorance, I erred I did not stick properly to the path and instead of falling down a little bit, I fell all the way down into a lower state of being than I was in before I even started the spiritual path. Now try to imagine my frustration, after spending two months in divine bliss I fell all the way down into a hellish state completely ruled by carnal desires. I spent the next 10 years struggling not to kill myself. Every day I thought about the divine bliss i had experienced in my youth and every day it seemed further away. Some days I would question whether it was even real, may it just seemed like bliss to my young mind the way everything seems better when youre a kid. Anyway because I had seen very high truths, such as glimpsing total oneness and all that jazz, the last thing I wanted to do was start from scratch and have to follow some stupid religion that said things "all wisdom begins in fear of the Lord". I didnt want to live in fear of the Lord, I wanted to be one with the Lord like I had experienced at age 20. But after nearly a decade of darkness, anxiety, suicidality and almost constant hard drug addiction, I admitted to myself that what I was doing simply was not working and maybe the best thing for me would be to completely start the spiritual path over again, from scratch. So I swallowed my pride and that is what I did. I decided to go with Christianity because in the state I was in I absolutely could not meditate, meditation was hopeless, pure torture. The only thing I could do was pray. That was my only hope. So I decided to go with Christianity as my religion, because I loved Jesus and Christianity is all about prayer. So I picked up a Bible and began to read. I also started attending Mass on sundays and praying daily because thats what any good Christian should do. Anyway, as I read the holy scriptures they began to have an effect on me. Somehow they changed me and what was once boring words on a page became nourishment and healing for my soul. I felt as though God had revealed to me a sense of who he was, through his Word. Anyway, for the first time in a decade I began to feel emotions like love again, I began to care about things again, i began to have hope again. Before long I was back studying the teachings of Ramana Maharshi again, which before my mind had become too scattered for me to understand. Ramana Maharshi teaches that for those who suffer from this problem of a scattered mind, bhakti is the easiest way to tame it. This is what I have found to be true, through learning to love the Lord as a Christian I regained some control over my stupid mind and ironically that tiny difference leads to major changes in how I relate to life. Also, following a religion gives discipline to your spiritual life and it also helps you stay on the right track, because you are following a trail that has already been blazed and there are many markers along the way to show you that you are on the right track. Its much easier to get lost or simply get lazy if you dont have the reminder of a religion in your life. Simply attending Mass once a week does wonders for the soul
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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To each his own.
![]() My experience with organized religion was pretty much the opposite. -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 8 years, 5 months |
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The practice is according to the state of the seeker, so obviously you weren't in a state conductive to whatever practice you were given, or you did not persevere with faith and devotion. Prayer does work though, so does meditation. But one must be sincere and put a lot of effort into it and it must be "right effort", it is easy to get stuck somewhere along the way and then you undo whatever good your prayers do. Its not like I never prayed during the 10 years I was totally lost in darkness. But I did not pray with faith, so my prayers went unanswered.
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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I was given lies and deceit and hypocrisy and so you're right I never excelled at that nor did I preserver in it. Although my prayers were sincere and with faith in my youth they did not work and though my own efforts I extricated myself from that network of lies although not without a ton of baggage to drag me down in life. Religion has been the bane of my existence along with much of the world and lots of innocent Catholic altar boys who came into the church with faith only to have it shit on by a religious institution and covered up for generations. I guess their faith was not good enough in gods eyes to deserve better treatment and their fate was not his concern. Nor was mine. Believe whatever you will.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 8 years, 5 months |
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No one is given a perfect upbringing. I was raised an atheist. How do you think that affected me? I grew up believing life was harsh and meaningless.
If you don't feel that your church gave you a proper understanding of the gospel, all I can say is study the teachings of the saints. You need to study what was said by real holy people, those who practice what they preach.
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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You really don't get what I've been saying or don't want to.
I find the Christian religion wanting and criminal from my own studies. I've never met any christian who practiced what they preached. And I'm pretty certain that any real Jesus would not condone the Catholic churches (and other churches) abuses on humanity for all these years and in all these ways and the corrupt power structure and criminal activities of those at the top and down. By belonging to that organization imo you give support and legitimacy to those criminal activities. I find that to be the opposite of what I consider spirituality. So like I said if I was a believer in the bible and this Jesus stuff I wouldn't practice it through any organized church nor would I talk about it with others within the framework of any church. There is nothing wrong with atheism if the parents are loving, kind and supportive. That should be obvious. Btw life is harsh often and quite possibly meaningless in a religious sense. I know parents who teach this to bright happy and whole children who are loved and so content. I can give Veritas as a prime example although she was before your time here. She and her children live two doors down from me. -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC Edited by Icelander (12/06/13 12:58 AM)
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newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 8 years, 5 months |
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Whatever, your beliefs are true for you. They make sense to you in your reality matrix. I live in a different matrix and I am concerned with awakening, awakening to the bliss that lies at the core of every being. In this process of awakening, I have taken advantage of every spiritual technique I could to help me and some of the most powerful techniques I found, were within the Christian religion. I also have tremendous respect for Indian spirituality. Wake up from thought. Thoughts aren't real. They are what covers the self existent bliss of God. Of course you are going to read this and think about it, and that totally misses the point.
Quote: You can consider spirituality to be whatever you want, but awakening involves stepping back from thoughts, beliefs and concepts. Spirituality is not about giving legitimacy or not giving legitimacy to this or that thing, it is about transcendence. Edited by Deviate (12/07/13 07:18 PM)
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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You live in this word my friend.
What you do has an influence on the rest of the world. Just because I love dogs and Hitler loved dogs does not mean I'd be ok with becoming a Nazi. Ignore what the Catholic church has done and is doing today still all you want but in no way is there anything righteous in it imo. Once again, you don't need to align with non healthy religious organizations to transcend anything. -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 8 years, 5 months |
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Lets say you want to learn mathematics and your local university has done some evil things in the past but it just so happens that they have a very good math program now. Would you not go and forgo your education because of some unjust thing that some people at the university who had nothing to do with your math professor had done?
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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Yes, If it was torture, theft, murder, slave labor, pedophilia. I certainly fucking would. And I certainly wouldn't respect the math teacher for working there.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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newbie Registered: 04/20/03 Posts: 4,497 Last seen: 8 years, 5 months |
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Quote: Well that would be your choice but I would choose to attend the University anyway because of the fact that what my education would allow me to do would far outweigh any of the consequences that would stem from associating myself with a university. I respect your decision though, why do you have trouble accepting mine? What is so wrong with the fact that I go to church and worship God with other people because this suits my spiritual growth? Who are you to judge me? What do you think is more important, awakening, or the associations you need to make in order to get to the state awakening?
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It merely introduces a humbling element to your sentence, which I doubt is entirely genuine. More like means to stay ambiguous, since you're walking on thin ice. So by this point, right now, you humbly believe that you may understand the bible better than some people do.



