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OfflineDeviate
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Why did God create you?
    #19243611 - 12/08/13 03:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The Lord God created us in order so that he could become conscious of himself. You see without creation, God is conscious but he does not know that he conscious, he simply IS. But through individualizing himself into what we call "beings", God is able to come apart from Himself and thus explore himself from the inside out. The end result of this process is God coming to know who he is in a totally conscious way. This is the state of God-realization, where the illusion of duality is broken. Traditionally, the Lord Jesus Christ is associated with this state of consciousness more than any other person. It is not the highest level of consciousness however, growth in awareness continues even after God-realization.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243620 - 12/08/13 03:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I agree that the ultimate purpose of creation is for the infinite to realize itself


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19243720 - 12/08/13 05:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

you are totally debile ...

if you exist then others also it is a fact, so the issue is how to deal with the fact, else

the more you are the more the issue is real

now what your set of beliefs is all based on creations means of non existence prove what I say being right and you wrong

if god creates because there is nothing but him then he doesn't exist, to exist is an objective fact, and if relative existence is the mean then true existence is else fact

what is not fully objective do not exist at the first place, so impossible to realize or do anything, and the mean that it would want to create is completely debile ... what is relatively existing know that it is not the fact so on the contrary enjoy being through the illusion of superiority to else, so wont mean to give to others to be, it would keep willing to be the objective fact superiority
like those gods we know, they all belong to the same character of willing powers over beings rights and all insist to stay alone as a way of being a god ... that is why also they enjoy to put us in such disgusting ways forced to others around us, so they can mean their superiority being absolute above us

freedom cannot be created this is the only thing that no one can do

while freedom is the truth so what exist is only what is true what is really free, not leaning on knowledge or powers or means ..

freedom is superiority infinitely.. that is why else always exist, freedom is objectively through else free existence too, and superiority is also through else concept.. by definition what is superior is always identified through present still absolute positive fact being else

the property of infinity is to never be one, and it is obvious how infinite do not care of being existence first right
and this is what is the most abused, plus individuals ones rights of being true so also careless of being rights first, is also the fact most abused

because infinity is never one, that is why objective facts exist and plurality is the fact


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: absols]
    #19243732 - 12/08/13 05:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Absols...

I do not agree either, but have no reason to suppress the poster.. this isnt the philisofy forum afterall..

i think there is a "God", of creativity... But no Lord. I need not be ruled, thus I reject the idea of an almighty master as a dellusion created because some people do not posess an inner peace and balance in they're lives.. having them need a master as they got a case of the socalledStockholm syndrome from their culture.. needing a master, in one form or an other.. No offence offcourse.

even though someone might get offended by this, I have stated it as my opinion more or less, and not "the truth".


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243750 - 12/08/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
The Lord God created us in order so that he could become conscious of himself. You see without creation, God is conscious but he does not know that he conscious, he simply IS. But through individualizing himself into what we call "beings", God is able to come apart from Himself and thus explore himself from the inside out. The end result of this process is God coming to know who he is in a totally conscious way. This is the state of God-realization, where the illusion of duality is broken. Traditionally, the Lord Jesus Christ is associated with this state of consciousness more than any other person. It is not the highest level of consciousness however, growth in awareness continues even after God-realization.





What do you base these conclusions on?  How are you so sure you know what god is or what it isn't?

Personally I would hardly claim to know such things even if I thought them to be possibly true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icyus]
    #19243755 - 12/08/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

you are right sorry, it is not philosophy forum, but infinite is the truth, we cannot talk about as if it can be used for relative wills ...

it is not about agreeing or not, there cant be any other being more tolerate then me objectively

I can see the value of anything any word any mean any sense any sentence... I see the truth everywhere so out of any sight or even mean rights ..

it doesn't make me special, on the contrary I guess a lot of others are like me, the more you are right the more you deal with facts realistically the more you know how only truth exist

so what I mean is edges, something that we cant tolerate, so I don't tolerate to not say that it is wrong .. at least that

there is also the positive edge, something that we cant pretend not knowing or not respecting or not leaving it free
infinite is free not something that could ever realize itself as one thing

people should know what they risk by being evil means and ways

what is more true so more objective become more totally else but as superior fact freedoms.. that is how freedom is the treasure miracle of infinite

what ones need others to rely on, cant be a god nor different gods, god by definition is what is never present, but always refered to as the true possessor of all .. no one could need to believe that

if you need another powerful hand you would more seek to rely on present powerful being you can see since you are then clearly expecting some positive ends

even though the world is going to find out how any other power is always a lie and evil essence, but I didn't mention that nor meant it

I was simply willing to stand out for infinite truth rights subjectively, where I consider that any is relatively out of infinite fact, right being free


Edited by absols (12/08/13 06:05 AM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19243762 - 12/08/13 06:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243775 - 12/08/13 06:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?




Lol, when I look at things I see a backdrop of consciousness. And the only veil I had to "see through" to sound like every other new-ager, was that there is no veil... so are you just blowing shit out of your finger tips?


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I am that, which is.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Khancious]
    #19243779 - 12/08/13 06:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, there is a backdrop of consciousness. Not seeing that is the veil. When you do see it, you see that there is no veil. But what do you call not seeing it, if not a veil?


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243789 - 12/08/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Yes, there is a backdrop of consciousness. Not seeing that is the veil. When you do see it, you see that there is no veil. But what do you call not seeing it, if not a veil?




Death? Or pre-birth consciousness? Or non-material, brainless consciousness? Or ________? This seems more like a silly thought game played by children than spirituality.


--------------------
I am that, which is.


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243795 - 12/08/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?




you cant mean the truth out of lies
whatever you experience seeing out of yourself senses could be true relatively to you, which is not infinite truth nor yourself being right

nothing is also true, another is also true, still object is also true, yesterday is also true, tomorrow too, ... what is the common between all those different true entities ?? freedom that could be right, then we say it is existing, or not right then we say it should not exist


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243804 - 12/08/13 06:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?





I certainly haven't seen beyond your veil.  I've seen things you don't seem to be aware of in the same way however.  And I certainly don't think Jesus is a lord or a god or any of that.

From your posts here I'm not really convinced that you do anything beyond believing in religion by faith.  Nothing wrong with that but it's not any ultimate god realization imo or experience. In my world view from a lot of experience that is hubris. :shrug:

I think I'm every bit as aware as you if not more so. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/08/13 06:53 AM)


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate] * 3
    #19243842 - 12/08/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So it's kind of like God performing auto fellatio, and Christ consciousness is realizing your mouth and cock are all part of one being, so you don't have to feel self conscious about it. Thanks for clearing that up, Deviate.  :thumbup:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Why did God create you? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19243900 - 12/08/13 08:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19244008 - 12/08/13 08:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
From your posts here I'm not really convinced that you do anything beyond believing in religion by faith.  Nothing wrong with that but it's not any ultimate god realization imo or experience. In my world view from a lot of experience that is hubris. :shrug:



Let's be honest:  Anything and everything one says concerning this stuff is "hubris." 

The Philosophical Daoists I hang out with jump on me whenever I talk in terms of the "purpose" of creation.  As a matter of fact, there's very little metaphysical exploration in the Tao Te Ching, the source document of Philosophical Daoism.  A little here and there, but mostly it's "here's the way things work (the Dao), here's the connection between you and the way things work, now deal with it."

But anyway...  I think our eyes and ears and senses are here in order that everything that may be experienced be, in fact, experienced.

I don't know "why' the game is set up like that, but that's the way it appears to be set up.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19244302 - 12/08/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I agree fully with your first sentence .


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19244308 - 12/08/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I agree fully with your first sentence .

As far as everything being experienced I have my doubts. As a good friend once said to me.  "The only things that happen are the things that can happen."  The rest is impossible.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19244359 - 12/08/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
As far as everything being experienced I have my doubts. As a good friend once said to me.  "The only things that happen are the things that can happen."  The rest is impossible.



All the best "gurus" in my life have been loved ones and friends.  My mother once said something to me that I've never forgotten.  She said:  "If you live long enough, you experience everything."

I'm finding that to be the case.  Every time something new comes along -- good or bad -- I think to myself "Okay, I can check that experience off."

Do you find that in your own life, Icelander, there seems to be a gradual "rolling out" of experience?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19244445 - 12/08/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm still waiting to experience being Superman.  But since you seem to think it's going to happen any time now.:thumbup:

I'll never experience most of what life has to offer. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19244553 - 12/08/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'll never experience most of what life has to offer. :sad:



Ah.  The "experience angst."  :wink: 

The Tao Te Ching -- the source document for Philosophical Daoism -- addresses every angst known to humankind -- that one included.  The Tao Te Ching isn't a "bible" in the conventional sense.  Some view it as perhaps humankind's most insightful description, to date, of the way things work.

Chapter 47 (as translated by Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English -- a translation I'm particularly fond of) reads like this:   

Without going outside, you may know the whole world.
Without looking through the window, you may see the ways of heaven.
The farther you go, the less you know.

Thus the sage knows without traveling;
He sees without looking;
He works without doing.


For me, this speaks to the most fundamental humility we humans are capable of experiencing.

And to the enormous potential that lies within that humility. :wink:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19245225 - 12/08/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I want to experience everything all at once. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19245320 - 12/08/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I want to experience everything all at once.



Yes, well, once -- in 1973, on a particularly high quality dose of LSD and in the perfect setting and with the perfect people -- I did.

Anyone reading here who has had the "no-holds barred lollapalooza mystical experience on LSD" knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Let me tell you...  there's a definite comfort sitting here in front of my fuckin' computer and talking glibly about it.

The experience is not for the squeamish or weak of heart, I can tell you that.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19245381 - 12/08/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Again I must ask. How did you know you experienced everything there is to possibly experience all at once?  Just because it felt like that to you is hardly convincing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19245922 - 12/08/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Again I must ask. How did you know you experienced everything there is to possibly experience all at once?  Just because it felt like that to you is hardly convincing.



You're right.  My experiences are not necessarily reflective of objective reality (whatever the hell that is).

The nature of the mystical encounter is such that its "reality" is undeniable to the experiencer.  But then again, "mystical" is a subjective concept.  The voodoo practitioners in Haiti, for example, consider their experiences "mystical" as well.

You're a good sport for engaging me in this stuff.

Thanks.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19246250 - 12/08/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Glad you can handle it with some grace.  My real position is that it's impossible to know anything with certainty.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19246550 - 12/08/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

how do you know that? :confused:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: White Beard]
    #19246648 - 12/08/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't but it's my position on the subject.  I think there is some evidence for that position although there is no certainty. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19246706 - 12/08/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

fair enough


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Invisiblebootster
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: White Beard]
    #19247882 - 12/08/13 11:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:nothingtoadd:


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19248645 - 12/09/13 03:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I want to experience everything all at once. :nicesmile:




I like this sentence it shows how you are close to see right ..

but what you might not know is truth ways through those relative moves ...


it is not really about experiencing anything.. it is more about logics


like you cant move unless you stay out of your move ... even if you don't want to stay or you don't mean to ... even if you can give away your stay .. it is not the logical point

it is truly about being objective the most possible, so the end of it is you staying

who does it right in all ways meaning the truth through meaning sorry but I stay what next innocently .. is the closest to true existence fact of being individually ..

it shows then, that objective truth freedom is first ... that is why it is truth that brings existence through that way to else, from recognizing objective rights all once for self freedom existence out

so truth know who is individually more right to support or do even his moves out first .. does saying that gives hope?? no, on the contrary .. when saying things right doesn't do anything positive doesn't take out the negative on rights, all the lies forces... then it becomes more scary ..


Edited by absols (12/09/13 03:28 AM)


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19249804 - 12/09/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's interesting mankind , generally speaking, has usually either believed in a god or pondered the existence of one/ some. 
It kinda seems like the human psyche was programmed to think this way.

Anyways idk :shrug:

I like your viewpoints here Deviate but the logic of uncertainty seems most beneficial I think.
To further this thought, philophical teachings, including the teachings of Jesus in The Gospels emphasize a flexible mind. 
This is impossible with a fixed notion of what god is.


Edited by cez (12/09/13 01:37 PM)


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19251660 - 12/09/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
The Lord God created us in order so that he could become conscious of himself. You see without creation, God is conscious but he does not know that he conscious, he simply IS. But through individualizing himself into what we call "beings", God is able to come apart from Himself and thus explore himself from the inside out. The end result of this process is God coming to know who he is in a totally conscious way. This is the state of God-realization, where the illusion of duality is broken. Traditionally, the Lord Jesus Christ is associated with this state of consciousness more than any other person. It is not the highest level of consciousness however, growth in awareness continues even after God-realization.




I think any belief that pretends to know what a God, by definition an intelligent, conscious being of vaster greater intellect than ourselves, can think or what His or Her purpose is in doing anything is incredibly naive and over-optimistic.  You might as well expect an ant to be able to predict why a human just sprayed his nest with pesticide.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: deCypher]
    #19252222 - 12/09/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Bingo!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19253167 - 12/09/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Why do you believe that God created our physical bodies? I don't believe that - just the opposite.

God doesn't create things that suffer and die.

God might help to save us from this imperfect creation however.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: deCypher]
    #19253277 - 12/09/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
You might as well expect an ant to be able to predict why a human just sprayed his nest with pesticide.




I wouldn't assume that an ant wouldn't understand that.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19253905 - 12/10/13 04:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?





I certainly haven't seen beyond your veil.  I've seen things you don't seem to be aware of in the same way however.  And I certainly don't think Jesus is a lord or a god or any of that.

From your posts here I'm not really convinced that you do anything beyond believing in religion by faith.  Nothing wrong with that but it's not any ultimate god realization imo or experience. In my world view from a lot of experience that is hubris. :shrug:

I think I'm every bit as aware as you if not more so. :lol:




We are all equally aware, it's just the content of our minds which differs. Some people are more or less identified with their egoic selvers than others and we call this gradations of awareness, but in truth all are equally aware.

Any description I give, is just a description and not some ultimate truth. But, I think it can be said that the purpose of life is growth in awareness. Of course you may be able to find some not incorrect perspective on things in which that isn't the case. Thats how reality is, especially when it comes to questions like meaning and purpose, what is true depends largely on how you look at it. But, looking at the perspective that its all about growth in awareness, is not a bad way to look at things if growth in awareness is something you appreciate. At least thats how I see things.

Oh and what do you mean you are not convinced I do anything beyond believing in a religion by faith? What is there to do?  Telepathy? Magical powers? Enlightenment isn't something you do, its something that you become and I certainly have not attained enlightenment nor claimed to. In fact, the more I grow spiritually, the more I realize how stupid, wicked and unenlightened I am. But I know that my consciousness is headed in the direction of growth and I have glimpsed levels which are higher than my current level. But I think its time for me to let go of any desire I have to convince anyone about this, especially you. The others people on this forum who also have attained levels of realization understand me, those who havent do not.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: endogenous]
    #19253910 - 12/10/13 04:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Why do you believe that God created our physical bodies? I don't believe that - just the opposite.

God doesn't create things that suffer and die.

God might help to save us from this imperfect creation however.




Well I believe that there is nothing besides God. Everything that is, is ultimately God, so in that sense I dont believe in creation at all. Matter is simply spirit in disguise. But if we are going to pretend that matter exists and our bodies, then who created them if not God? You are right that God does not create things that suffer and die, but he gave man freedom and through misuse of that freedom, man found himself in a situation where he was subject to suffering and death. But its not real.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: deCypher]
    #19253922 - 12/10/13 04:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
The Lord God created us in order so that he could become conscious of himself. You see without creation, God is conscious but he does not know that he conscious, he simply IS. But through individualizing himself into what we call "beings", God is able to come apart from Himself and thus explore himself from the inside out. The end result of this process is God coming to know who he is in a totally conscious way. This is the state of God-realization, where the illusion of duality is broken. Traditionally, the Lord Jesus Christ is associated with this state of consciousness more than any other person. It is not the highest level of consciousness however, growth in awareness continues even after God-realization.




I think any belief that pretends to know what a God, by definition an intelligent, conscious being of vaster greater intellect than ourselves, can think or what His or Her purpose is in doing anything is incredibly naive and over-optimistic.  You might as well expect an ant to be able to predict why a human just sprayed his nest with pesticide.  :shrug:




Yes it is in a way, but you also must remember that we are part of this whole process that some call God and this gives as a very intimate peak at it. Of course its ultimate purpose is far beyond anything that our intellect can grasp and yet, our intellect can sort of get a sense of its own role in this process and that that role involves growth, and realization. We can get a sense that our ultimate purpose is to gain wisdom and understanding and not to chase after fleeting pleasures, if for no other reason than the former is fullfilling on multiple levels of our being and the latter is not.

You see we must learn to trust ourselves. Not our egos but ourselves. Somewhere deep within our beings there is a wisdom that tells us how things are. Its the primordial intelligence at work. It was the primordial intelligence which prompted you to write that post. The primordial intelligence welled up inside you and told you that "I think any belief that pretends to know what a God, by definition an intelligent, conscious being of vaster greater intellect than ourselves, can think or what His or Her purpose is in doing anything is incredibly naive and over-optimistic" and this is quite true and yet at the same time, you must recognize that you possess the very intelligence which gave you this knowledge and this is the same intelligence that prompted me to see life as involving the growth in awareness. Do you see how its just all just perspectives on the infinite and unfathomable unknown? In truth God is the ultimate unknown mystery and yet we can turn our minds to comtemplation of this mystery rather than toward worldly gain.


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19253924 - 12/10/13 04:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

God created me to fart on this thread.

:nicesmile:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: absols]
    #19253927 - 12/10/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

absols said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?




you cant mean the truth out of lies
whatever you experience seeing out of yourself senses could be true relatively to you, which is not infinite truth nor yourself being right

nothing is also true, another is also true, still object is also true, yesterday is also true, tomorrow too, ... what is the common between all those different true entities ?? freedom that could be right, then we say it is existing, or not right then we say it should not exist




By truth I mean a shift in consciousness that exposes more than was exposed before. I dont mean ultimate truth. It could very well be that tomorrow you will have a realization that totally turns all your prior understanding of God/life on it's head.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19253930 - 12/10/13 04:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
So it's kind of like God performing auto fellatio, and Christ consciousness is realizing your mouth and cock are all part of one being, so you don't have to feel self conscious about it. Thanks for clearing that up, Deviate.  :thumbup:




Precisely. As funny as it sounds, that is exactly what I am saying.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19254687 - 12/10/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The others people on this forum who also have attained levels of realization understand me, those who havent do not.

I just love responses like this. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Why did you create God? [Re: Deviate]
    #19254694 - 12/10/13 10:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I created god because of ignorance and fear.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did you create God? [Re: DieCommie]
    #19254736 - 12/10/13 10:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think that's at least one if not the main reasons for the creation of deities.

To think that there is a god talking specifically to you and telling you what "he" thinks so  you can go out and tell others is really a childish notion imo.  When you step back and look at most religious practice you can easily identify it as the same childlike behavior that is behind the tooth fairy and santa claus and monsters in the closet.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why did you create God? [Re: Icelander]
    #19255248 - 12/10/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Humans are childlike creatures. We think we are all sophisticated but in reality we are like children who respond to bright lights and pretty colors.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: endogenous]
    #19255266 - 12/10/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
You might as well expect an ant to be able to predict why a human just sprayed his nest with pesticide.




I wouldn't assume that an ant wouldn't understand that.




And your basis for believing this is...?

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
The Lord God created us in order so that he could become conscious of himself. You see without creation, God is conscious but he does not know that he conscious, he simply IS. But through individualizing himself into what we call "beings", God is able to come apart from Himself and thus explore himself from the inside out. The end result of this process is God coming to know who he is in a totally conscious way. This is the state of God-realization, where the illusion of duality is broken. Traditionally, the Lord Jesus Christ is associated with this state of consciousness more than any other person. It is not the highest level of consciousness however, growth in awareness continues even after God-realization.




I think any belief that pretends to know what a God, by definition an intelligent, conscious being of vaster greater intellect than ourselves, can think or what His or Her purpose is in doing anything is incredibly naive and over-optimistic.  You might as well expect an ant to be able to predict why a human just sprayed his nest with pesticide.  :shrug:




Yes it is in a way, but you also must remember that we are part of this whole process that some call God and this gives as a very intimate peak at it. Of course its ultimate purpose is far beyond anything that our intellect can grasp and yet, our intellect can sort of get a sense of its own role in this process and that that role involves growth, and realization. We can get a sense that our ultimate purpose is to gain wisdom and understanding and not to chase after fleeting pleasures, if for no other reason than the former is fullfilling on multiple levels of our being and the latter is not.

You see we must learn to trust ourselves. Not our egos but ourselves. Somewhere deep within our beings there is a wisdom that tells us how things are. Its the primordial intelligence at work. It was the primordial intelligence which prompted you to write that post. The primordial intelligence welled up inside you and told you that "I think any belief that pretends to know what a God, by definition an intelligent, conscious being of vaster greater intellect than ourselves, can think or what His or Her purpose is in doing anything is incredibly naive and over-optimistic" and this is quite true and yet at the same time, you must recognize that you possess the very intelligence which gave you this knowledge and this is the same intelligence that prompted me to see life as involving the growth in awareness. Do you see how its just all just perspectives on the infinite and unfathomable unknown? In truth God is the ultimate unknown mystery and yet we can turn our minds to comtemplation of this mystery rather than toward worldly gain.




I dunno, if there's anything I've come to realize over the course of my life it's that 99% of the things I've trusted/hoped/wanted to be true without evidence, in the end weren't.  And I see no evidence for any of the characteristics you're listing of this 'primordial intelligence'.  How do you know any of this?  Wouldn't an "ultimate unknown mystery" be completely incompatible with the facts you've confidently laid out in your post about our ultimate purpose and what's fundamentally fulfilling to our primal being?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did you create God? [Re: Deviate]
    #19255276 - 12/10/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Humans are childlike creatures. We think we are all sophisticated but in reality we are like children who respond to bright lights and pretty colors.





and pretty uniforms with fancy hats showing status. :pope:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Why did you create God? [Re: Icelander]
    #19258238 - 12/10/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I am still very much an infite in my spiritual awakening but I have realized what you say deviate. In other words I have seen through the veil.

I have recently pondered what it would be like to be God. It would seem to be a boring existence. Perhaps God created us out of pure boredom as a way to obtain new experiences. Perhaps he purges his consciousness into each of us with individual egos so that we (God) may experience ourself and our creation

Thoughts?


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InvisibleBluing
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Re: Why did you create God? [Re: Stromrider]
    #19258528 - 12/11/13 01:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This thread may have well begun with the reading of "Conversations with God"

To experience God is to wonder of God. To wonder of God is to appreciate the physicality of Creation. To appreciate the physicality of Creation is to experience God with amnesia.

I can only experience what I am, by knowing what I am not. I provide a safety net, the ultimate safety net, of blissful Divinity.

Look into the mirror.

There only Is; I Am.

We all, Am.

Welcome to the Matrix.


--------------------
"I am......I am here......and I love"

Forgive Yourself,...Forgive Yourself,...I love You,...Forgive Yourself

Mycology is good for the Soul


Edited by Bluing (12/11/13 01:54 AM)


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19258553 - 12/11/13 02:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
So it's kind of like God performing auto fellatio, and Christ consciousness is realizing your mouth and cock are all part of one being, so you don't have to feel self conscious about it. Thanks for clearing that up, Deviate.  :thumbup:




Precisely. As funny as it sounds, that is exactly what I am saying.




:lol: I was just playing with ya, :thumbup: for not getting outraged. I have experienced life precisely as you have described in your OP and have even been down right convinced about it at times.. Now I'm not so sure, seems more like a "reality tunnel" (and a useful one I might add), but only one of many ways in which we can perceive our world, all of which have something useful to tell us about ourselves if we're willing to listen.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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