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OfflineDeviate
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Why did God create you?
    #19243611 - 12/08/13 03:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The Lord God created us in order so that he could become conscious of himself. You see without creation, God is conscious but he does not know that he conscious, he simply IS. But through individualizing himself into what we call "beings", God is able to come apart from Himself and thus explore himself from the inside out. The end result of this process is God coming to know who he is in a totally conscious way. This is the state of God-realization, where the illusion of duality is broken. Traditionally, the Lord Jesus Christ is associated with this state of consciousness more than any other person. It is not the highest level of consciousness however, growth in awareness continues even after God-realization.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243620 - 12/08/13 03:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I agree that the ultimate purpose of creation is for the infinite to realize itself


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19243720 - 12/08/13 05:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

you are totally debile ...

if you exist then others also it is a fact, so the issue is how to deal with the fact, else

the more you are the more the issue is real

now what your set of beliefs is all based on creations means of non existence prove what I say being right and you wrong

if god creates because there is nothing but him then he doesn't exist, to exist is an objective fact, and if relative existence is the mean then true existence is else fact

what is not fully objective do not exist at the first place, so impossible to realize or do anything, and the mean that it would want to create is completely debile ... what is relatively existing know that it is not the fact so on the contrary enjoy being through the illusion of superiority to else, so wont mean to give to others to be, it would keep willing to be the objective fact superiority
like those gods we know, they all belong to the same character of willing powers over beings rights and all insist to stay alone as a way of being a god ... that is why also they enjoy to put us in such disgusting ways forced to others around us, so they can mean their superiority being absolute above us

freedom cannot be created this is the only thing that no one can do

while freedom is the truth so what exist is only what is true what is really free, not leaning on knowledge or powers or means ..

freedom is superiority infinitely.. that is why else always exist, freedom is objectively through else free existence too, and superiority is also through else concept.. by definition what is superior is always identified through present still absolute positive fact being else

the property of infinity is to never be one, and it is obvious how infinite do not care of being existence first right
and this is what is the most abused, plus individuals ones rights of being true so also careless of being rights first, is also the fact most abused

because infinity is never one, that is why objective facts exist and plurality is the fact


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OfflineIcyus
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Registered: 11/07/13
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: absols]
    #19243732 - 12/08/13 05:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Absols...

I do not agree either, but have no reason to suppress the poster.. this isnt the philisofy forum afterall..

i think there is a "God", of creativity... But no Lord. I need not be ruled, thus I reject the idea of an almighty master as a dellusion created because some people do not posess an inner peace and balance in they're lives.. having them need a master as they got a case of the socalledStockholm syndrome from their culture.. needing a master, in one form or an other.. No offence offcourse.

even though someone might get offended by this, I have stated it as my opinion more or less, and not "the truth".


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Loc: underbelly
Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243750 - 12/08/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
The Lord God created us in order so that he could become conscious of himself. You see without creation, God is conscious but he does not know that he conscious, he simply IS. But through individualizing himself into what we call "beings", God is able to come apart from Himself and thus explore himself from the inside out. The end result of this process is God coming to know who he is in a totally conscious way. This is the state of God-realization, where the illusion of duality is broken. Traditionally, the Lord Jesus Christ is associated with this state of consciousness more than any other person. It is not the highest level of consciousness however, growth in awareness continues even after God-realization.





What do you base these conclusions on?  How are you so sure you know what god is or what it isn't?

Personally I would hardly claim to know such things even if I thought them to be possibly true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icyus]
    #19243755 - 12/08/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

you are right sorry, it is not philosophy forum, but infinite is the truth, we cannot talk about as if it can be used for relative wills ...

it is not about agreeing or not, there cant be any other being more tolerate then me objectively

I can see the value of anything any word any mean any sense any sentence... I see the truth everywhere so out of any sight or even mean rights ..

it doesn't make me special, on the contrary I guess a lot of others are like me, the more you are right the more you deal with facts realistically the more you know how only truth exist

so what I mean is edges, something that we cant tolerate, so I don't tolerate to not say that it is wrong .. at least that

there is also the positive edge, something that we cant pretend not knowing or not respecting or not leaving it free
infinite is free not something that could ever realize itself as one thing

people should know what they risk by being evil means and ways

what is more true so more objective become more totally else but as superior fact freedoms.. that is how freedom is the treasure miracle of infinite

what ones need others to rely on, cant be a god nor different gods, god by definition is what is never present, but always refered to as the true possessor of all .. no one could need to believe that

if you need another powerful hand you would more seek to rely on present powerful being you can see since you are then clearly expecting some positive ends

even though the world is going to find out how any other power is always a lie and evil essence, but I didn't mention that nor meant it

I was simply willing to stand out for infinite truth rights subjectively, where I consider that any is relatively out of infinite fact, right being free


Edited by absols (12/08/13 06:05 AM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19243762 - 12/08/13 06:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?


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InvisibleKhancious
da Crow
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Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 628
Loc: Behind Everything
Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243775 - 12/08/13 06:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?




Lol, when I look at things I see a backdrop of consciousness. And the only veil I had to "see through" to sound like every other new-ager, was that there is no veil... so are you just blowing shit out of your finger tips?


--------------------
I am that, which is.


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Khancious]
    #19243779 - 12/08/13 06:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, there is a backdrop of consciousness. Not seeing that is the veil. When you do see it, you see that there is no veil. But what do you call not seeing it, if not a veil?


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InvisibleKhancious
da Crow
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Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 628
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243789 - 12/08/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Yes, there is a backdrop of consciousness. Not seeing that is the veil. When you do see it, you see that there is no veil. But what do you call not seeing it, if not a veil?




Death? Or pre-birth consciousness? Or non-material, brainless consciousness? Or ________? This seems more like a silly thought game played by children than spirituality.


--------------------
I am that, which is.


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Offlineabsols
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Registered: 11/10/13
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243795 - 12/08/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?




you cant mean the truth out of lies
whatever you experience seeing out of yourself senses could be true relatively to you, which is not infinite truth nor yourself being right

nothing is also true, another is also true, still object is also true, yesterday is also true, tomorrow too, ... what is the common between all those different true entities ?? freedom that could be right, then we say it is existing, or not right then we say it should not exist


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate]
    #19243804 - 12/08/13 06:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Awareness. If you look deeply into the nature of things it becomes clear that truth is your natural state and it is merely obscured by the wiles of the ego. Therefore, truth is not something to be obtained it is actually alive and is accessible since you only need remove that which covers it.

Then you undergo a shift in consciousness. How do you know the shifted state is any more true than the egoic state? because you see it. It is like if you see mirage of water on the street and then you get closer and you see it was only a mirage and there is no real water there. You dont wonder  "hmmm how do I know there is no water here? What if my perception when I was seeing the mirage was correct and I am misperceiving now?" 

Thats what spiritual realization is like, only its more powerful than that because at the higher levels, the questioner/doubter/concluder disappears (and yet you remain fully conscious) so there is no one left to even ask "is this a delusion?" that is how you get absolute certainty of truth, by losing the ability to think about truth or falsehood as though in deep sleep except you remain conscious. Realization has been described as waking sleep in fact.

But why do you not know these things Icelander? You have been posting on a spirituality and mysticism forum for years, have you really never glimpsed realization? Do you mean to tell me that you have never seen beyond the veil?





I certainly haven't seen beyond your veil.  I've seen things you don't seem to be aware of in the same way however.  And I certainly don't think Jesus is a lord or a god or any of that.

From your posts here I'm not really convinced that you do anything beyond believing in religion by faith.  Nothing wrong with that but it's not any ultimate god realization imo or experience. In my world view from a lot of experience that is hubris. :shrug:

I think I'm every bit as aware as you if not more so. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/08/13 06:53 AM)


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Deviate] * 3
    #19243842 - 12/08/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So it's kind of like God performing auto fellatio, and Christ consciousness is realizing your mouth and cock are all part of one being, so you don't have to feel self conscious about it. Thanks for clearing that up, Deviate.  :thumbup:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Why did God create you? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19243900 - 12/08/13 08:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------


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Offlineall this beauty
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Registered: 02/13/13
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19244008 - 12/08/13 08:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
From your posts here I'm not really convinced that you do anything beyond believing in religion by faith.  Nothing wrong with that but it's not any ultimate god realization imo or experience. In my world view from a lot of experience that is hubris. :shrug:



Let's be honest:  Anything and everything one says concerning this stuff is "hubris." 

The Philosophical Daoists I hang out with jump on me whenever I talk in terms of the "purpose" of creation.  As a matter of fact, there's very little metaphysical exploration in the Tao Te Ching, the source document of Philosophical Daoism.  A little here and there, but mostly it's "here's the way things work (the Dao), here's the connection between you and the way things work, now deal with it."

But anyway...  I think our eyes and ears and senses are here in order that everything that may be experienced be, in fact, experienced.

I don't know "why' the game is set up like that, but that's the way it appears to be set up.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19244302 - 12/08/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I agree fully with your first sentence .


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19244308 - 12/08/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I agree fully with your first sentence .

As far as everything being experienced I have my doubts. As a good friend once said to me.  "The only things that happen are the things that can happen."  The rest is impossible.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19244359 - 12/08/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
As far as everything being experienced I have my doubts. As a good friend once said to me.  "The only things that happen are the things that can happen."  The rest is impossible.



All the best "gurus" in my life have been loved ones and friends.  My mother once said something to me that I've never forgotten.  She said:  "If you live long enough, you experience everything."

I'm finding that to be the case.  Every time something new comes along -- good or bad -- I think to myself "Okay, I can check that experience off."

Do you find that in your own life, Icelander, there seems to be a gradual "rolling out" of experience?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19244445 - 12/08/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm still waiting to experience being Superman.  But since you seem to think it's going to happen any time now.:thumbup:

I'll never experience most of what life has to offer. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Why did God create you? [Re: Icelander]
    #19244553 - 12/08/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'll never experience most of what life has to offer. :sad:



Ah.  The "experience angst."  :wink: 

The Tao Te Ching -- the source document for Philosophical Daoism -- addresses every angst known to humankind -- that one included.  The Tao Te Ching isn't a "bible" in the conventional sense.  Some view it as perhaps humankind's most insightful description, to date, of the way things work.

Chapter 47 (as translated by Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English -- a translation I'm particularly fond of) reads like this:   

Without going outside, you may know the whole world.
Without looking through the window, you may see the ways of heaven.
The farther you go, the less you know.

Thus the sage knows without traveling;
He sees without looking;
He works without doing.


For me, this speaks to the most fundamental humility we humans are capable of experiencing.

And to the enormous potential that lies within that humility. :wink:


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