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Offlineviktor
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The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard
    #19242936 - 12/07/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



"If you were not absolute perfection, God would have made you different, and since He made the others different and not you, you must be absolute perfection."

If I'm made in the image of God then everyone must be shit. Thinking that everyone else is shit is what I need to get through my day.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: viktor] * 2
    #19242962 - 12/07/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's amazing how culturally ingrained christianity is in our western psyches. No matter how much we come to realize it is based in a form of self deceit and madness we cannot fully purge it from our minds.

But I give much kudos and credit to those that make the attempt. Still these threads on christianity, for or against, are a dime a dozen.:boring:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineviktor
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Icelander]
    #19242969 - 12/07/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't even know if kudos are deserved. Battling Christianity still puts people in the "Christianty - Good or Bad?" paradigm rather than the "What really is going on?" one, which is what Christians want.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Icelander]
    #19242970 - 12/07/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Christianity is based on spiritual truth.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Deviate]
    #19242975 - 12/07/13 10:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Says you. :monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: viktor]
    #19242983 - 12/07/13 10:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I don't even know if kudos are deserved. Battling Christianity still puts people in the "Christianty - Good or Bad?" paradigm rather than the "What really is going on?" one, which is what Christians want.




It does, but like I said we can't help it.  It's a cultural paradigm instilled in the hard drive of many and when we are at our most vulnerable. :prettyflyforawhiteguy:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineviktor
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Deviate]
    #19242987 - 12/07/13 10:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Christianity is based on spiritual truth.




It must be because I am a Christian and if it wasn't I would have chosen something else. QED.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: viktor]
    #19242993 - 12/07/13 10:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I don't even know if kudos are deserved. Battling Christianity still puts people in the "Christianty - Good or Bad?" paradigm rather than the "What really is going on?" one, which is what Christians want.




No, I want the what is really going on Paradigm. Icelander and many others who post here are stuck in the good or bad paradigm.

Wisdom does not see things as good or bad, things simply are and then our thinking makes them either good or bad.

Christianity just is. Or it is what you make of it. Some people follow the Christian path to awakening. That is beautiful. Awakening is beautiful and all paths that lead to awakening are also beautiful. But most people who are asleep do not see this. They are stuck on labeling things good or bad, this or that, courageous or cowardly, endless labeling.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Deviate]
    #19243104 - 12/07/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's like saying the Nazi's were on a spiritual path.  If you think it's good then it is. :monkeydance:

And as I've said I have nothing against christianity per se but when within it's practice you support a horrendous and corrupt religion/church then I see a real problem in the mental state of the person.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Icelander]
    #19243223 - 12/08/13 12:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There you go, seeing good and bad, seeing problems, these are labels. Look beyond labels.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Deviate]
    #19243324 - 12/08/13 01:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There you go ignoring uncomfortable truths so you can pursue personal agendas. :wink:

Maybe someone should have told that to Jesus when he got pissed at the money changers and challenged the pharisees. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/08/13 02:19 AM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Icelander]
    #19243615 - 12/08/13 03:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What truths am I ignoring? Your opinions?


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: viktor] * 1
    #19243664 - 12/08/13 04:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

viktor said:


"If you were not absolute perfection, God would have made you different, and since He made the others different and not you, you must be absolute perfection."

If I'm made in the image of God then everyone must be shit. Thinking that everyone else is shit is what I need to get through my day.




Quite a few religions twist it to make them seem better than others, when i've recently seen American Christians on TV i can see why there's so many hate threads coming from there to be honest, they can sound like nutcases, people really can use religion to further their ignorance rather than quell it which is what it's meant to do, so that is not Christianity imo, its not people finding God its man being misled by man pretending to know what God wants

True Christianity is becoming Christ & nothing less, imo

Even with their ignroance i can't help feel for American Christians, the USA is a country with internal influences that have an active war against true Christian values, its no coincidence IMO how the non-christian owned media pumps out these nutcases while the real values are left behind to rot


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Deviate]
    #19243665 - 12/08/13 04:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No, you are ignoring the horrendous actions of the Catholic church and if you are not ignoring them that is sadder still.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Icelander]
    #19243713 - 12/08/13 05:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No, you are ignoring the horrendous actions of the Catholic church and if you are not ignoring them that is sadder still.




That is just a thought. I am going deep within myself, beyond thoughts. Why do you concern with my spiritual practice?


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Deviate]
    #19243735 - 12/08/13 05:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I would, given the history, blow this of as ego-promoting mankpulation.


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Deviate]
    #19243744 - 12/08/13 05:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
No, you are ignoring the horrendous actions of the Catholic church and if you are not ignoring them that is sadder still.




That is just a thought. I am going deep within myself, beyond thoughts. Why do you concern with my spiritual practice?




Why are you concerned that you think I may be concerned?  Doesn't sound that thoughtless if you care so much. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Icelander]
    #19243748 - 12/08/13 05:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't care that much, but I fully admit that my ego is a hypocrite so if you want to point out flaws in my ego, go ahead. They are all true and much worse things about me are also true. This recognition, that one is hopelessly trapped by thoughts and concepts and whatever flaws one sees in others, one is also guilty of, is a big step in the process awakening.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Deviate]
    #19243754 - 12/08/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I know that about myself also.  :shrug:  The idea I've been attempting to get across is I don't need to align myself with criminal organizations to realize such things. By criminal I mean organizations that harm other humans physically and psychologically and or spiritually.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The best argument for Christianity I've ever heard [Re: Icelander]
    #19243776 - 12/08/13 06:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, by that definition every organization is a criminal organization. If you dont feel any need to align yourself with a criminal organization, then you don't have to. Life gives you that freedom.

But dont you see that criminal organization is just a thought? it does not matter how much evidence you have to "prove" it. Its still a label. What about the souls the Catholic Church has saved? Do they count for nothing? I'm not saying they do, but why is it that you mention the "bad" and completely ignore the "good". Is that how you go about finding the truth?

Let me give you an example. When I was a kid in New York City my mother locked the keys inside the car. We were stuck there. Luckily, a car thief happened to walk by at that moment and overheard my mother complaining about having locked the keys inside the car. He offered to open the car for us and in a few minutes we gotten into the car and were free to leave.

Now I understand that perhaps because of your moral sense, you would have refused his help. In your mind it is wrong to involve yourself with a criminal, even if it is to your benefit. That's ok, you are free to look at things that way.

However, I dont look at things that way. I will accept help, even from criminals at times, if they have something I really need and in the case of the Catholic Church I needed the Holy Eucharist and faith community.

Furthermore as I was trying to explain, "criminal organization" is just your concept. In reality organizations do not even exist in a sense. There are just people. Think about it. Is the Catholic Church an actual thing or is it a human concept that describes a great many of related people, events and ideas across space and time?

So when it comes down to it, its just people. Every where it is just people doing various things. Some of the people are good, some of them not so good but any standard by which you try to measure things is entirely relative. Therefore it is silly for you to expect your judgments to hold true for anyone besides yourself. Your judgments are made relative to your sense of self, which is conditioned by past experiences. If you had grown up in the Catholic Church and had a very positive experience with it, you would probably feel differently. Its just conditioning.


Edited by Deviate (12/08/13 06:21 AM)


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