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OfflineDeviate
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The bad news and the good news
    #19242914 - 12/07/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The bad news is that it is your own psychological issues that make you suffer and this suffering goes on seemingly without end because you continually recoil from it. You expend mental effort attempting to shield yourself from pain. But the mind can never fully shield you from pain and the shielding that it does provide for you is useless anyway because it is only in proportion to the amount of effort you put in. The more pain you have, the more effort you will need to put forth to shield yourself from it, and the more you will suffer. The very worst part of the bad news is that in order to end suffering, you are going to have to do the exact thing you have been trying to avoid for the past however many eons and that is directly confront suffering in all its forms with the full force of your consciousness without recoiling or running anyway the slightest bit.

The good news is that when you do this, your suffering takes on meaning and purpose as it begins to burn up the maladaptive mental tendencies you have built up through your unskillful reactions to life and the situations it presents you with.  Although it's never easy to willingly take on suffering, when you see that suffering has a purpose, it makes it a little bit easier to accept it, with grace and dignity instead of fear and resentment. The more maladaptive tendencies get burned away, the more you begin to see how beautiful the original plan is. The beautiful stillness of your being, which you come to understand is present whether you are suffering or joyful, becomes your shield and your refuge.

Personally, I love the way the Bible puts it in Psalm 84:

"For the LORD God is both a sun and shield."

Not only does the still awareness (which is of course, the spirit of the Lord, the Holy Spirit) shield you from pain, it also illuminates all that it is your mind and bestows wisdom and understanding in a way that transcends thought and intellect. THis is the way of peace.


The important thing to understand is that it's all ok. The suffering has a purpose, therefore, its ok to relax and not to worry. Even suffering is ok. So enjoy life.


Edited by Deviate (12/07/13 11:07 PM)


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Offlineall this beauty
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Registered: 02/13/13
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Deviate]
    #19244106 - 12/08/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The bad news is that we have bodies and minds, and with bodies and minds comes suffering.  Physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual.

The good news is that regardless of how we suffer, we are safe. 

There is no heaven or hell.  No one is keeping score.  The universe doesn't give one flying fuck what we accomplish or do not accomplish. 

Everything is cool just as it is.  Nothing is out of place.

We are home and we are safe.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: all this beauty]
    #19244164 - 12/08/13 09:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The bad news is that we have bodies and minds, and with bodies and minds comes suffering.  Physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual




True, but this is really good news, because if we had bodies that didn't spiritually suffer we would be in perpetual ignorance & not seek out how to wake up from it

Quote:

There is no heaven or hell.  No one is keeping score.  The universe doesn't give one flying fuck what we accomplish or do not accomplish.


 

While i agree that the ultimate (if thats what you mean by universe) is untouched by anything, including our 'accomplishments', how do you know there is no relative heaven & hell?

Quote:

The good news is that regardless of how we suffer, we are safe

Nothing is out of place.

We are home and we are safe




:thumbup:


--------------------


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Chronic7]
    #19244259 - 12/08/13 10:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
...how do you know there is no relative heaven & hell?



I don't "know" it, but I strongly suspect it.

I think notions of heaven and hell arise out of our longings and fears.  They're projections.  We project outward and then think our projections have some independent, objective reality of their own.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Deviate]
    #19255596 - 12/10/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
The important thing to understand is that it's all ok. The suffering has a purpose




We can potentially learn something from some suffering we experience, but some of us fail to learn from our own mistakes, and some of our suffering is wholly pointless and without purpose.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: deCypher]
    #19255726 - 12/10/13 02:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
We can potentially learn something from some suffering we experience, but some of us fail to learn from our own mistakes, and some of our suffering is wholly pointless and without purpose.  :shrug:



I disagree.  I see absolutely no -- zero -- arbitrariness in the universe.

Everything flows in an orderly direction, following certain "rules" that are perhaps too subtle for our complicated brains to fathom.

My sufferings take me to the next point in my journey.  It may be an equally bad and unpleasant place, or it may be a better place.  But the process is orderly.

No accidents.  No chaos.  No randomness.

Anywhere or in any thing.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: deCypher]
    #19262397 - 12/11/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
The important thing to understand is that it's all ok. The suffering has a purpose




We can potentially learn something from some suffering we experience, but some of us fail to learn from our own mistakes, and some of our suffering is wholly pointless and without purpose.  :shrug:




You can choose to see as it being without purpose, you can also choose to see as all having a purpose and the latter viewpoint is just as valid as the former in my opinion.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: all this beauty]
    #19262403 - 12/11/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
...how do you know there is no relative heaven & hell?



I don't "know" it, but I strongly suspect it.

I think notions of heaven and hell arise out of our longings and fears.  They're projections.  We project outward and then think our projections have some independent, objective reality of their own.




Nothing has independent objective reality of its own, except reality itself. But within the realm of the subjective, heaven and hell are both very real.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Deviate]
    #19264207 - 12/12/13 03:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Along with Santa and the Tooth Fairy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Icelander]
    #19264269 - 12/12/13 04:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Cannabis, opium, beer and tobacco combinations often bring the kingdom of heaven right into me, all these things often lead to more suffering and none of these things is the worst kind of suffering. Santa's alleged toadstools cause intense sick feelings. If the tooth fairy were real I'd sell my teeth right about now.


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Deviate]
    #19264276 - 12/12/13 04:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
But within the realm of the subjective, heaven and hell are both very real.




Hell is simply being unhappy with your life IMO :shrug:


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Ran-D]
    #19264301 - 12/12/13 04:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Agree. It makes no sense for me to be unhappy. I should be very happy, really. I don't get why I'm always in hell. Seem to be moving back into a Christian cycle at the moment. This time I'm gonna pray hard for sex, drugs and money.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19264527 - 12/12/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's the spirit-ual. :jennajameson:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Deviate]
    #19264533 - 12/12/13 07:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
...how do you know there is no relative heaven & hell?



I don't "know" it, but I strongly suspect it.

I think notions of heaven and hell arise out of our longings and fears.  They're projections.  We project outward and then think our projections have some independent, objective reality of their own.




Nothing has independent objective reality of its own, except reality itself. But within the realm of the subjective, heaven and hell are both very real.



I agree.  Subjectively, heaven and hell are real.  In the same way, subjectively, OBEs, for example, are "real."

But these things have no objective reality of their own.

When I leave a can of soda in the frig and go outdoors, the can of soda is still there.  It has existence independent of me.  But heaven, hell, and OBEs are not "there" independent of me, independent of my conceptualizations and longings.

In my opinion, of course.  There's no "proving" this stuff one way or the other.

Quote:

Ran-D said:
Hell is simply being unhappy with your life IMO



For sure.  Never a truer word spoken.

Look at all the celebrities who have had unimaginable wealth and celebrity and yet offed themselves, or at least tried to.

We carry heaven and hell with us, in our heads.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: all this beauty]
    #19269151 - 12/13/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I agree that heaven and hell are not there independent of you but I disagree that a can of soda is.

As far as I am concerned, all phenomena are dependent in nature and arise out of the void of nothingness before falling back into it. There is no difference between a can of soda, a person and an angel in that respect. They are all merely appearances rising and falling within you.


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Deviate]
    #19269161 - 12/13/13 02:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Existance of an entity, nomatter the form is constant.. good or evil depends upon a judgement made by the observer.


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Icyus]
    #19269183 - 12/13/13 02:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes I agree. Basically I take the Buddhist/Hindu view on this. Phenomena are empty in nature and do not exist independently of each other but are simply aspects of the One. thus it is meaningless to speak about a can of soda in the absence of the one. The confusing part is that people perceive themselves as an individual who exists independently of other things.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The bad news and the good news [Re: Deviate]
    #19270065 - 12/13/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If we are honest, completely honest imo, we must admit we are confused by existence.  Try as we might to make sense of it, it is beyond us.  All real spirituality, imo, must acknowledge this.  Of course then where are you? :confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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