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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: sweeper54]
    #19227684 - 12/04/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
The little guys that lost their houses.




How is losing your house because you failed to make payments on it getting boned?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227723 - 12/04/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You mean the ones that took loans out and then failed to make the payments?  Why should they get something for nothing?




Besides all the people who were making payments that were wrongly foreclosed on.

When millions of people nationwide are hurting and are struggling, being kicked out of their home was exactly what they needed.  Instead of a helping hand, they got a cold shoulder.  When the government stepped in to try and stop the hemorrhaging, then banks told people to miss payments on purpose, and then foreclosed on them when they missed payments.

Now the rich folks and their companies are buying up property for dirt cheap and will rent them out/sell them for an exorbitant profit.

I'm all for making money/profit, but when you make that money at the expense of the people who are hurting the most, well, that is simply morally wrong in my opinion.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19240776 - 12/07/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

sweeper54 said:
The little guys that lost their houses.




How is losing your house because you failed to make payments on it getting boned?




Maybe because the government chose to bail out the banks instead. Great argument, if they made poor decisions they should pay for it, why did our tax money instead go to bail out these institutions, id rather of saw an expansion of TARP then the ridiculous bail outs for high finance, never has ineptitude been rewarded with so much money.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #19241071 - 12/07/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The government shouldn't bail out anybody. That still doesn't equate to the little guy getting boned.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19241114 - 12/07/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The government forced the banks into insolvency and then made a shit load of money lending to the entities they caused to struggle.  This is the kind of scheme that would make Al Capone proud.  Obama was front and center coercing banks to lend to shitbags.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Registered: 10/27/13
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19244409 - 12/08/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Damn right. He didn't rob the rich to give to the poor. He returned to the people the money that the state had stolen from them.

I watched the Disney Robin Hood with my step son and nephew a couple of weeks back. It's a good illustration of the true nature of the state, and taxation, in a way that children can easily grasp.

One problem I did have was that King Richard was portrayed as a good guy, instead of the murdering crusader that he was.


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"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19244486 - 12/08/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
The government shouldn't bail out anybody. That still doesn't equate to the little guy getting boned.



The little guy got boned when the housing bubble burst and people lost their jobs and equity. That was not their fault. That was a result of bad policies. Then the banks, who helped cause the problem, were given a pass while everyone else paid for it.

They also got screwed by the expansion of the money supply and subsequent price rises.

The little guy gets screwed every time the government creates more debt because the little guy has to help pay it off.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


Edited by MaxwellSmart (12/08/13 11:17 AM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19244527 - 12/08/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Losing your job is not "getting boned".

Losing your house when you can't make the payments is not "getting boned".

Buying more house than you can afford to pay for when times get tough is not "getting boned".

Why should those who pay taxes get boned for the mistakes of others?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Registered: 10/27/13
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19244778 - 12/08/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Losing your job is not "getting boned".

Losing your house when you can't make the payments is not "getting boned".

Buying more house than you can afford to pay for when times get tough is not "getting boned".

Why should those who pay taxes get boned for the mistakes of others?



They shouldn't. I don't believe in bailouts for anyone (nor taxes).

The loss of a productive economy due to manipulation of interest rates and unscrupulous banking practices (encouraged by government policy) amounts to the little guy getting boned. Losing your job makes it hard for you to continue paying the mortgage, especially when there are few other jobs to be had and they don't pay as highly.

My father bought a new home in 2008, right before the crash. He had a decent paying job and substantial savings, as well as assets in the stock market. When the bubble burst, no one wanted to buy the home. He paid two mortgages for 3 years and ultimately, he lost one house. He had paid in twice as much as the home is now worth. It was purchased for about 1/4 of the original value. We can blame him for his decisions but hindsight is 20/20 and most people don't really understand economics. I sure didn't at the time.

The loss of purchasing power resulting from expansion of the money supply is theft. Definitely getting boned.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19244790 - 12/08/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How is that theft?  Theft is the unlawful taking of another's property with the intent to deprive permanently.  How was that unlawful?


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19244791 - 12/08/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Most people don't seem to understand why there was a recession and they certainly didn't see it coming. We don't affect the policies of the Federal Reserve but we are forced to use it's currency. When it is devalued, it is worth less. When it is misallocated and the economy collapsed, it is not our fault, but we suffer. That is getting boned.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19244795 - 12/08/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Congress has full control and oversight over the Federal Reserve...how can you claim we don't affect its policies?


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: Enlil]
    #19244798 - 12/08/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
How is that theft?  Theft is the unlawful taking of another's property with the intent to deprive permanently.  How was that unlawful?



You and I live by two different sets of laws. I believe in natural law. You believe in positivist laws of organized criminal gangs.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: Enlil]
    #19244801 - 12/08/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I said "we". We are not Congress.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19244803 - 12/08/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Your "natural law" system includes currency and the devaluation thereof?


--------------------
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Ask an Attorney

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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19244806 - 12/08/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It is theft because you are taking away the value of their money without allowing them an alternative.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: Enlil]
    #19244844 - 12/08/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Your "natural law" system includes currency and the devaluation thereof?



Sure. When you force people to use a particular currency and then you devalue it, it is essentially taking away the goods which they would have bought with the value that was taken. It is basically theft by deception.
Or more accurately, the problem is that competition of currencies is not allowed. We have no choice but to use depreciating money. If we had the option of using a safer form of money, most of us would. The Federal Reserve would either have to shape up or fail.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19244852 - 12/08/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

When they create more money, that money goes toward the purchase of goods. It's not magic. Someone has to pay for that. It ends up benefiting those who receive it first and hurting those whose money has lost value.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19244859 - 12/08/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The federal reserve can't "fail" in that sense.  It is a government agency.  It will exist until Congress decides it won't anymore.  The people aren't forced to use the currency.  They could change the system at any time by electing a Congress that changes it.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: Robin Hood Takes From The Rich and Gives To The Poor.... [Re: Enlil]
    #19244880 - 12/08/13 12:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The federal reserve can't "fail" in that sense.  It is a government agency.  It will exist until Congress decides it won't anymore.  The people aren't forced to use the currency.  They could change the system at any time by electing a Congress that changes it.



You're right. They can't fail. That's the problem with the banking system. They cannot fail. It doesn't matter how poorly they do, they will always have the option to steal from the people.

And regarding the monetary system: can I change it right now? Of course not. I certainly am forced to live under this system and I can't change it.


--------------------
"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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