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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
#19235973 - 12/06/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Whippy said:
Quote:
Trippy_Smurf said: You do realize it's still only 2013, don't you?
You do realize that in 26 days that will change don't you? Its just Frank talking about "The future of mycology"
Frank, have you ever run an isolate test on coir/verm etc versus a casing mix of peat and verm?

It's just a new year's project 
Do you mean just spawning to peat and verm? That doesn't work well.
Or do you mean cased vs uncased on the same isolate and substrate?
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19235995 - 12/06/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


Registered: 07/19/12
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: tripdawg420]
#19236008 - 12/06/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19236036 - 12/06/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:

If my calculations are correct that's just about 10 pounds dry first flush.
You have a lot of eating to do.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: bodhisatta]
#19236051 - 12/06/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It will feed my family when the long, hard winter comes.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19236056 - 12/06/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: It will feed my family when the long, hard winter comes.
adopt me
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 380
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: bodhisatta]
#19236079 - 12/06/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just out of curiosity Frank, I read awhile back that you like to inoculate an agar dish with one drop of MS. How many times do you transfer those dishes?
I inoculated 1 dish with a MS syringe and transferred to 10 dishes, would you transfer those 10 to another 10 dishes to insure they are clean? Or do you just throw them in a master quart jar and go from there with those random genetics?
And why not 20 tubs?
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: nn-IlliniSpiralDMT]
#19236121 - 12/06/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nn-IlliniSpiralDMT said: Just out of curiosity Frank, I read awhile back that you like to inoculate an agar dish with one drop of MS. How many times do you transfer those dishes?
I take one or two transfers from healthy looking sections. The first is to ensure cleanliness. If the second plate is clean, I inoculate from that most often, just to save time (my MS grows are for taking clones, anyhow)
Sometimes I'll take a second transfer, until I have a nice looking culture going. I try to get rid of any fuzzy looking mycelium and any slow patches if I have some time to spare.
Quote:
I inoculated 1 dish with a MS syringe and transferred to 10 dishes, would you transfer those 10 to another 10 dishes to insure they are clean?
If they are clean after your first transfer, they should be fine if you are in a hurry. Otherwise, take another set of transfers from the fastest and healthiest sections of growth. This limits your genetic lottery a little further.
Quote:
And why not 20 tubs?
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: I forgot to mention I lost one master jar to the bottom of my SAB 
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19236205 - 12/06/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hmmm makes sense. Well I'd say 7 of my 10 are good with 3 of them looking to have bacteria growing on them, I think I'll just transfer the fastest growth to separate dishes. Next time I'm using less nutrients in my agar to help combat the bacteria, my sterile procedures are fine I think it is just the condensation that pulls in air into my plates that causes bacterial growth, that along with a high nutrient content.
Thanks a bunch
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: nn-IlliniSpiralDMT]
#19236236 - 12/06/13 11:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bacteria is getting in there when you pour or when you inoculate 99% of the time. When are your contams showing up? Before inoculation, 24-48hrs after, or longer than that?
Lower nutrient content won't stop it in any way. Sterile media like agar will contaminate every single chance it gets. Even if you used just agar and water.
Honestly though, don't feel discouraged. Agar is the best place to get contams. Great practice for working and keeping everything aseptic in the SAB, without ruining your cultures or wasting tons of time when you make a mistake.
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19236930 - 12/06/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Bacteria is getting in there when you pour or when you inoculate 99% of the time. When are your contams showing up? Before inoculation, 24-48hrs after, or longer than that?
Lower nutrient content won't stop it in any way. Sterile media like agar will contaminate every single chance it gets. Even if you used just agar and water.
Honestly though, don't feel discouraged. Agar is the best place to get contams. Great practice for working and keeping everything aseptic in the SAB, without ruining your cultures or wasting tons of time when you make a mistake.
I usually get it after I transfer an agar piece to a clean plate, I assumed it was the condensation pulling in excess air and condensing water droplets inside my plates which draws the bacteria in.
I never have problems doing grains in my SAB or g2g, I have a 99% rate with that but for some reason agar to agar transfers always get contaminated(Just a couple out of a sleeve) The first MS dish was 100% clean so I know it was not the agar transfer but likely my sterile procedures when doing multiple agar dishes.
It is a pain to heat a scalpel outside of the SAB and then slip my hand through the PVC inlet without trying to burn myself or the tote. On top of that I find that when I cool the scalpel in the receiving dish it creates a little pool of water that may attract contaminates.
I don't want to put the lamp inside my box as I spray it thoroughly with 70% ISO and would rather not blow up. I suppose I could use a diluted bleach solution to solve the problem.
I am not discouraged, I'm just trying to hone my skills so I can eventually do a sleeve with no problems. I would love to do an isolate grow like you are doing right now And I'm trying to but bacteria always seems to come around when I do a bunch of dishes.
Another thing I could be doing wrong is that I know use a normal quart jar to store my media where as before I would use a gin bottle with a smaller neck and hole for GE(did not have near the amount of contams,but also never did 20+ dishes). My hypothesis is when I open my agar media in my SAB the jar vacuum pulls in the air from SAB and while the air is relatively clean it is not sanitary.
And sorry for stealing your thread, I hope to make one similar to this and Notahackers within a couple weeks.
Peace
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: nn-IlliniSpiralDMT]
#19237418 - 12/06/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Droplets of water and little puddles on the agar do not "attract" contaminants, shit will stick to your agar just as easily. If bacteria gets into your dish, you are screwed either way. Your skill with agar and working in your SAB will determine whether or not this happens.
I flame my scalpel with a small blowtorch, outside the box. I never wipe down the inside of my SAB any longer, I no longer wet down anything really.
I just wipe my gloves with a 70% iso soaked paper towel, wipe my scalpel, flame the blade, move it in the box, and go to work. It's all about how you move around and how still the air is around your still air box, these two factors play the biggest role in contaminant prevention IMO.
With some work on your sterile procedure, your success rate with agar will improve. This was my point
Edited by FrankHorrigan (12/06/13 05:00 PM)
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19237674 - 12/06/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Do you mean just spawning to peat and verm? That doesn't work well.
Or do you mean cased vs uncased on the same isolate and substrate?
What I was asking has NOTHING at all to do with this thread.
There are a few threads that I have looked over (Some are getting close to a decade old) where people posted very surprising results using spagnum peat/verm instead of coir/verm.
I tell you why I wonder this.
There are posts going back 10 years where user began experimenting with coir and were casing their grows in coir. At what juncture does the terminology change?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5379439
This thread I believe is where RR simply states that coir makes a better bulk sub than a casing.
I am just curious as to how much more productive coir/verm with identical strains. I don't know any way to identify how "nutritious" a substrate is....but after seeing coir sit out for months at a time without rotting really has me wondering.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
#19237737 - 12/06/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have no idea. No disrespect to BH but look at all the outdated info in that post:
Quote:
It does tend to overlay very easily, but nothing [no casing] at all is like 100% overlay
I wonder if he would still question coir vs peat as a substrate today.
On a personal note, you sure do think up a lot of things that would be interesting to see.
Why don't you do some experiments of your own? You might end up making a bit of a splash, who knows?
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19237773 - 12/06/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Why don't you do some experiments of your own? You might end up making a bit of a splash, who knows? 
As a non-commercial cultivator, even simple things like a mini-mono keep me satisfied for months. I may take your advice and run some untested isolates out.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
#19237783 - 12/06/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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To my knowledge, no one here commercially cultivates actives, and if they did they would be wise to avoid discussing it on educational sites such as this.
However, I will say that a stash is not a bad thing if you like to trip, and you can always just throw those extra mushrooms to the animals if you really have no use for them
The information you gain will still be just as valid.
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19237903 - 12/06/13 06:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: To my knowledge, no one here commercially cultivates actives, and if they did they would be wise to avoid discussing it on educational sites such as this.
I totally mis-worded my previous post, but somehow you read exactly what I ment. My perspective is that I really would have no idea what to do with any excess fruits. Throwing them to the animals might be the best bet The Guinea pigs LOVE eating mushrooms 
Frank, thanks for everything. I really mean that. As you point out, its great to have a consolidated source of quality information with pros and cons and all pitfalls outlined. Learning through others, and sharing experiences certainly makes for a quality community!
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19238364 - 12/06/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Droplets of water and little puddles on the agar do not "attract" contaminants, shit will stick to your agar just as easily. If bacteria gets into your dish, you are screwed either way. Your skill with agar and working in your SAB will determine whether or not this happens.
I flame my scalpel with a small blowtorch, outside the box. I never wipe down the inside of my SAB any longer, I no longer wet down anything really.
I just wipe my gloves with a 70% iso soaked paper towel, wipe my scalpel, flame the blade, move it in the box, and go to work. It's all about how you move around and how still the air is around your still air box, these two factors play the biggest role in contaminant prevention IMO.
With some work on your sterile procedure, your success rate with agar will improve. This was my point 
Really you don't clean your SAB before you do G2G or A2A? Not even a quick wipe down with any soap or water? I just bought a minitorch lighter that I think I'll just use in my SAB, to limit the contams in my area. The alcohol lamp works but it takes roughly 20 secs to get it nice and orange. Within that time frame I bet millions of spores get inside my work area..
Thanks again FRANK
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: nn-IlliniSpiralDMT]
#19239668 - 12/07/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't clean my sab. I wipe any stray grains out when I'm finished and put it up until next time. I used to spray bleach spray in and around my sab but that shit would burn my nose really bad and I wouldn't be able to smell or taste for several hours
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Yuri.Pono
MAD SCIENTIST


Registered: 10/28/13
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Re: Frank's 2014 project: 19 tubs (not cased this time) [Re: Stromrider]
#19239736 - 12/07/13 07:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I flame my scalpel with a small blowtorch, outside the box. I never wipe down the inside of my SAB any longer, I no longer wet down anything really.
I just wipe my gloves with a 70% iso soaked paper towel, wipe my scalpel, flame the blade, move it in the box, and go to work. It's all about how you move around and how still the air is around your still air box, these two factors play the biggest role in contaminant prevention IMO.
you don't wipe down your jars/plates?
might have to give it a shot but it just dont feel right to at least give jars/plates/tools/gloves/inside SAB at least once. i know the wife hate when i do work. as the smell kills her.
Frank do you keep your fan on low 24/7 that close? just thought that close would dry out the sub.
-------------------- Links To Success finger print: A9E348E5 2A22AFB6 F3676613 A34B1454 7C36ABC8 want to chat? got xxmp/pidgin/otr PM me for info
Edited by Yuri.Pono (12/07/13 07:38 AM)
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