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Offlinetombosley8
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Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee
    #19238688 - 12/06/13 10:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Need a good ratio for these and can get as much of any ingredients for very cheap so no worry there. Also coffee is relatively easy for me to get so if more of that would help i would be glad. I have two tubs with 1 brick coir 5 qts verm 1/2 qt coffee grinds 2 cups gypsum and about 4 qts water and squeezed until field capacity. They are about four days along and are about 1/2 colonized or more under the top thin layer of substrate to protect exposed grains and that top layer has about 10% poking through. (I can see the substrate underneath through the clear trash bag liner i used on my 58 qt monotub. i plan to duck tape bottem half when fruiting just like to see whats happening. Also my last run of tubs i had a lot of side pinning but im pretty sure it was due to over misting. Just looking for any good input and finally showing my face after learning so much here. You guys are phenomenal.


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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19238698 - 12/06/13 10:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

really looking for experienced trusted cultivators on this one


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OfflineIcesyn
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19238721 - 12/06/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Umm what's wrong with simple coir and verm? Coffee is unnecessary and gypsum is to buffer ph (which not allot of people really care to use).

And a layer on top is redundant. That's more nutrients for the myc to work through. Think of it also as more food and time for competition molds/fungi. Layering is for casing (Holding in moisture). And a case is "non nutritious" like verm or peat moss. Unlike the nutes we use for bulk subs like coir, coffee, brown rice or other grains. Which we mix and not layer so the myc from the grain spawn can colonize the sub as quick and efficiently as possible.

People like myself also use higher spawn ratios for quicker colonizing and more available nutrients for the grow. I like ~2:1:3 spawn:verm:coir, so double the spawn for the sub and the sub is 25% verm and 75% coir. Somewhere around there.

Use a black liner apposed to a clear one. Like a thick black trash bag. The less light coming through the sides/bottom, the better. I used a white one before (some bozo suggested it didn't matter) and did't get the results I wanted.


Edited by Icesyn (12/06/13 10:30 PM)


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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19241747 - 12/07/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i have heard of many having good success with coffee and could really benefit from the faster colonization. I am getting my pasteurization method to a t so should be no problem right i have a very clean room with a flow hood running constantly. Please someone with experience with these materials chime in or anyone with other opinions but your advice is good and i have used that ratio before in previous tubs and had some success but a lot of contam after first flush i think due to improper pasteurization from bucket tek. I used %5 gypsum which may have also altered results. so now after a full room cleanout ( room completely bleached and wiped 3 times, new plastic, and bleached again, total cleaning of house, etc.) im back up and trying to make it right and to the best i can. please any more advice would be grateful.


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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19241774 - 12/07/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

per tub i used 10 qts spawn for this recipe listed above is this adequate or should i do more like 12 qt substrate and 12 qt spawn.
the top layer of substrate I describe is very thin about as thin as possible not even 1/8 inch id say just for precaution from posts and teks i have read on it. should this be omitted1?


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OfflineIcesyn
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19241802 - 12/07/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Figure out the ratio and then establish how much will get you 3 to 4 inches in your tub.

And as I said, coffee is not beneficial if you're already using coir. That's an old recipe and if anything, the coffee will invite more contams which is another reason people don't recommend it anymore. Same goes for the top layer. It's just redundant.

You can't request someone with a title to tend to your questions. My responses are as good as theirs.


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19241822 - 12/07/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I now see i had a 1:1.4 ratio (5:7) spawn:substrate which is higher than what you recommended so i should be fine, right?


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OfflineIcesyn
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19241858 - 12/07/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Fine and should have a decent colonizing speed.

Good luck!


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: Icesyn]
    #19242142 - 12/07/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for your confirmation why do you think coffee is not good isnt it just another variety of nutrient for a healthier substrate(or is it just an additive for buffering?) and it is very easy to get in big amounts for me and store after drying.    anyone else? And opinions on gypsum ?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19242161 - 12/07/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

one brick of coir + 4.5 quarts of water + 1.5 quarts of verm


~215 grams of coir + 1.5 quarts of water + 0.5 quarts of verm
works well with 2 quarts of spawn for one of my shoebox size bricks that I make.

Add a handful of gypsum to a brick of coir or a little less if you're using a part of a full brick as for the coffee use diluted coffee about 1/2 strength as the water component.

In my opinion and experience the coffee is going to be negligible on your colonization times, it's going to make sure you have to pasteurize properly with less room for error or else face a higher risk of contamination.


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19242372 - 12/07/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You say dilluted do you mean liquid.  i am not using liquid coffee im using Spent coffee grounds how much of that per your recipe for a brick thanks for your response


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19242404 - 12/07/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've never worked with coffee to be honest.
I did find this though

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Why would you be boiling spent coffee grounds?  You're supposed to simply hydrate it to field capacity, or even better, mix with your coir or manure,verm, etc., and then hydrate to field capacity.  Pasteurize at 140F to 160F for an hour and it's ready to spawn when cool.  There should never be a mess.

Coffee is fine for nitrogen, which is over rated for fungi anyway.  Gypsum is added for the calcium and sulfur supplement, not pH balancing, which it doesn't do anyway.  Besides, mushrooms prefer a bulk substrate that's slightly acidic. Around 6 works great.

Don't confuse the process of using spent coffee grinds as a bulk substrate with using liquid coffee as a supplement to soak grains in prior to sterilization.  They're two separate uses.
RR




I guess you could use straight coffee as a bulk substrate so use as mush as a % as you want but make sure it's field capacity and is pasteurized properly. I personally would skip coffee. The vast majority of trusted people here that have experimented with it have not found any reason to keep using it on the regular


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19242411 - 12/07/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What spawn ratio do you or others recommend for this recipe. whats the most efficient for colonization speed and nutrients without using more than needed spawn is not too hard too produce for me


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19242419 - 12/07/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I always do 1:1 or 1:2 spawn to substrate. People get away with 1:4 but I'm never trying to stretch it out that much.


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19242421 - 12/07/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
The vast majority of trusted people here that have experimented with it have not found any reason to keep using it on the regular




:whathesaid:

IME it doesn't significantly improve yields under ideal conditions, and the contam risk is very high.

If you insist on using grounds in your bulk substrate, I recommend adding a pinch of hydrated lime per quart of hydrated coffee grounds.

Quote:

tombosley8 said:
What spawn ratio do you or others recommend for this recipe. whats the most efficient for colonization speed and nutrients without using more than needed spawn is not too hard too produce for me




I use a 1:2 ratio and my coir is colonized in 4-7 days :thumbup:

Spawning to bulk (and dunking the grains)


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19242489 - 12/07/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:imwithstupid:


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19242503 - 12/07/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Wow awesome responses i guess ill just dump this 20 gal of dried grounds whats your verm to coir ratio frank


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19242531 - 12/07/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tombosley8 said:
Wow awesome responses i guess ill just dump this 20 gal of dried grounds whats your verm to coir ratio frank




Frank's coir preperation. Along with all the other goodies you can find with the link in his signature

Quote:

You will need:
One brick of coir
1-3 quarts of verm (your preference)
4.5-5.5 quarts of water
Handful of gypsum (pelletized is fine)




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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19242533 - 12/07/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I am getting hydrated lime as recommended by the 50/50 casing tek becaused i am looking into casing trays via a successful friends rec  so would that really benefit i thought u did not need to adjust ph in substrate tho it makes sense that it would help with contams. It seems the casing in trays is outdated anyone have any advice in that region


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19242557 - 12/07/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Im definately going to take the advise to omit the coffee is the verm preference due to size of verm i have coarse and live in a dryer climate but will be using humidifier to make up for that just in case this matters.    so what to do with all these grounds?


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19242754 - 12/07/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You messed up when you decided to do your own tek before getting your feet wet first...
Your ratios are way off and there should never be a reason to add 12 quarts of spawn to a mono...
That is just crazy and a huge waste of your time and energy.
5-7 quarts works great for Damions tek:thumbup:

Follow teks to the T to start off and don't add coffee, it is a royal pain and doesn't do shit for you except make your failure rate go sky high...


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: nn-IlliniSpiralDMT]
    #19242907 - 12/07/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've had nice success with coffee (that I treated like spawn), but it contams easy and wouldn't suggest it unless the area is extremely clean.
(Edit to add: I should say I had good success until it contamed and then my surprise green-blue mold farm really took off).
Gypsum isn't just a PH buffer but a mineral nutrient.


Edited by StygianKnight (12/07/13 11:04 PM)


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: StygianKnight]
    #19243129 - 12/07/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

StygianKnight said:
I've had nice success with coffee (that I treated like spawn), but it contams easy and wouldn't suggest it unless the area is extremely clean.
(Edit to add: I should say I had good success until it contamed and then my surprise green-blue mold farm really took off).
Gypsum isn't just a PH buffer but a mineral nutrient.



It's unnecessary.


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: Icesyn]
    #19245770 - 12/08/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank everyone for the incredible advice and knowledge as well as a very warm welcoming. Only help and understanding for my lack of experience and all around stubborness. You guys really open the mind and set things straight for us noobs. very happy to be a part of this community and i will definitely do my part to give back whenever i can any more advice on the subjects discussed is much appreciated.    Frank you are awesome love your teks exactly what ive been looking for


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee *DELETED* [Re: tombosley8]
    #19245780 - 12/08/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by tombosley8

Reason for deletion: sorry



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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee *DELETED* [Re: tombosley8]
    #19245792 - 12/08/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by tombosley8

Reason for deletion: its dumb



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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19245871 - 12/08/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I also owe much thanks to roger rabbit and his supreme knowledge for getting me thus far i will not be using coffee or a thin top layer my liner will b thick black next time so much clarification in this one thread im very grateful to have all the help (dont mind the double post and mistake i dont kniw how to delete it)


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
    #19249019 - 12/09/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tombosley8 said:
I also owe much thanks to roger rabbit and his supreme knowledge for getting me thus far i will not be using coffee or a thin top layer my liner will b thick black next time so much clarification in this one thread im very grateful to have all the help (dont mind the double post and mistake i dont kniw how to delete it)



Hey! I'm not RR!
:rr:


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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: Icesyn]
    #19253582 - 12/10/13 01:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i was referring to my previous knowledge in the little time i have been involved with this hobby. I have always been pointed in the right direction from all of RR's comments i've come across and of course the awesome videos. I just had not read enough yet to know these things and i'm very grateful for your input as well icesyn on the matter. (Very helpful and to the point) I'm definitely on the right track now and happy to see my coffee tubs are almost colonized. They do seem to be taking a bit longer than my previous tubs it's almost been two week. Should i be worried? i'll get pics asap no signs of problem just slightly slow . I thing may be under field capacity could this be why?


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