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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins


Registered: 10/14/13
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Last seen: 8 months, 24 days
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Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee
#19238688 - 12/06/13 10:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Need a good ratio for these and can get as much of any ingredients for very cheap so no worry there. Also coffee is relatively easy for me to get so if more of that would help i would be glad. I have two tubs with 1 brick coir 5 qts verm 1/2 qt coffee grinds 2 cups gypsum and about 4 qts water and squeezed until field capacity. They are about four days along and are about 1/2 colonized or more under the top thin layer of substrate to protect exposed grains and that top layer has about 10% poking through. (I can see the substrate underneath through the clear trash bag liner i used on my 58 qt monotub. i plan to duck tape bottem half when fruiting just like to see whats happening. Also my last run of tubs i had a lot of side pinning but im pretty sure it was due to over misting. Just looking for any good input and finally showing my face after learning so much here. You guys are phenomenal.
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins


Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19238698 - 12/06/13 10:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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really looking for experienced trusted cultivators on this one
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Icesyn
Trust My Words


Registered: 05/19/11
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19238721 - 12/06/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Umm what's wrong with simple coir and verm? Coffee is unnecessary and gypsum is to buffer ph (which not allot of people really care to use).
And a layer on top is redundant. That's more nutrients for the myc to work through. Think of it also as more food and time for competition molds/fungi. Layering is for casing (Holding in moisture). And a case is "non nutritious" like verm or peat moss. Unlike the nutes we use for bulk subs like coir, coffee, brown rice or other grains. Which we mix and not layer so the myc from the grain spawn can colonize the sub as quick and efficiently as possible.
People like myself also use higher spawn ratios for quicker colonizing and more available nutrients for the grow. I like ~2:1:3 spawn:verm:coir, so double the spawn for the sub and the sub is 25% verm and 75% coir. Somewhere around there.
Use a black liner apposed to a clear one. Like a thick black trash bag. The less light coming through the sides/bottom, the better. I used a white one before (some bozo suggested it didn't matter) and did't get the results I wanted.
Edited by Icesyn (12/06/13 10:30 PM)
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tombosley8
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19241747 - 12/07/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i have heard of many having good success with coffee and could really benefit from the faster colonization. I am getting my pasteurization method to a t so should be no problem right i have a very clean room with a flow hood running constantly. Please someone with experience with these materials chime in or anyone with other opinions but your advice is good and i have used that ratio before in previous tubs and had some success but a lot of contam after first flush i think due to improper pasteurization from bucket tek. I used %5 gypsum which may have also altered results. so now after a full room cleanout ( room completely bleached and wiped 3 times, new plastic, and bleached again, total cleaning of house, etc.) im back up and trying to make it right and to the best i can. please any more advice would be grateful.
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins


Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19241774 - 12/07/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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per tub i used 10 qts spawn for this recipe listed above is this adequate or should i do more like 12 qt substrate and 12 qt spawn. the top layer of substrate I describe is very thin about as thin as possible not even 1/8 inch id say just for precaution from posts and teks i have read on it. should this be omitted1?
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Icesyn
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Registered: 05/19/11
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19241802 - 12/07/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Figure out the ratio and then establish how much will get you 3 to 4 inches in your tub.
And as I said, coffee is not beneficial if you're already using coir. That's an old recipe and if anything, the coffee will invite more contams which is another reason people don't recommend it anymore. Same goes for the top layer. It's just redundant.
You can't request someone with a title to tend to your questions. My responses are as good as theirs.
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tombosley8
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19241822 - 12/07/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I now see i had a 1:1.4 ratio (5:7) spawn:substrate which is higher than what you recommended so i should be fine, right?
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Icesyn
Trust My Words


Registered: 05/19/11
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19241858 - 12/07/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fine and should have a decent colonizing speed.
Good luck!
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tombosley8
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: Icesyn]
#19242142 - 12/07/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for your confirmation why do you think coffee is not good isnt it just another variety of nutrient for a healthier substrate(or is it just an additive for buffering?) and it is very easy to get in big amounts for me and store after drying. anyone else? And opinions on gypsum ?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19242161 - 12/07/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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one brick of coir + 4.5 quarts of water + 1.5 quarts of verm
~215 grams of coir + 1.5 quarts of water + 0.5 quarts of verm works well with 2 quarts of spawn for one of my shoebox size bricks that I make.
Add a handful of gypsum to a brick of coir or a little less if you're using a part of a full brick as for the coffee use diluted coffee about 1/2 strength as the water component.
In my opinion and experience the coffee is going to be negligible on your colonization times, it's going to make sure you have to pasteurize properly with less room for error or else face a higher risk of contamination.
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tombosley8
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: bodhisatta]
#19242372 - 12/07/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You say dilluted do you mean liquid. i am not using liquid coffee im using Spent coffee grounds how much of that per your recipe for a brick thanks for your response
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19242404 - 12/07/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've never worked with coffee to be honest. I did find this though
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Why would you be boiling spent coffee grounds? You're supposed to simply hydrate it to field capacity, or even better, mix with your coir or manure,verm, etc., and then hydrate to field capacity. Pasteurize at 140F to 160F for an hour and it's ready to spawn when cool. There should never be a mess.
Coffee is fine for nitrogen, which is over rated for fungi anyway. Gypsum is added for the calcium and sulfur supplement, not pH balancing, which it doesn't do anyway. Besides, mushrooms prefer a bulk substrate that's slightly acidic. Around 6 works great.
Don't confuse the process of using spent coffee grinds as a bulk substrate with using liquid coffee as a supplement to soak grains in prior to sterilization. They're two separate uses. RR
I guess you could use straight coffee as a bulk substrate so use as mush as a % as you want but make sure it's field capacity and is pasteurized properly. I personally would skip coffee. The vast majority of trusted people here that have experimented with it have not found any reason to keep using it on the regular
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins


Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19242411 - 12/07/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What spawn ratio do you or others recommend for this recipe. whats the most efficient for colonization speed and nutrients without using more than needed spawn is not too hard too produce for me
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19242419 - 12/07/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I always do 1:1 or 1:2 spawn to substrate. People get away with 1:4 but I'm never trying to stretch it out that much.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19242421 - 12/07/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: The vast majority of trusted people here that have experimented with it have not found any reason to keep using it on the regular

IME it doesn't significantly improve yields under ideal conditions, and the contam risk is very high.
If you insist on using grounds in your bulk substrate, I recommend adding a pinch of hydrated lime per quart of hydrated coffee grounds.
Quote:
tombosley8 said: What spawn ratio do you or others recommend for this recipe. whats the most efficient for colonization speed and nutrients without using more than needed spawn is not too hard too produce for me
I use a 1:2 ratio and my coir is colonized in 4-7 days 
Spawning to bulk (and dunking the grains)
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Stromrider
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19242489 - 12/07/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins


Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19242503 - 12/07/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wow awesome responses i guess ill just dump this 20 gal of dried grounds whats your verm to coir ratio frank
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19242531 - 12/07/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said: Wow awesome responses i guess ill just dump this 20 gal of dried grounds whats your verm to coir ratio frank
Frank's coir preperation. Along with all the other goodies you can find with the link in his signature
Quote:
You will need: One brick of coir 1-3 quarts of verm (your preference) 4.5-5.5 quarts of water Handful of gypsum (pelletized is fine)
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tombosley8
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19242533 - 12/07/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am getting hydrated lime as recommended by the 50/50 casing tek becaused i am looking into casing trays via a successful friends rec so would that really benefit i thought u did not need to adjust ph in substrate tho it makes sense that it would help with contams. It seems the casing in trays is outdated anyone have any advice in that region
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tombosley8
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Registered: 10/14/13
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Re: Substrate ratio coir verm gypsum coffee [Re: tombosley8]
#19242557 - 12/07/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im definately going to take the advise to omit the coffee is the verm preference due to size of verm i have coarse and live in a dryer climate but will be using humidifier to make up for that just in case this matters. so what to do with all these grounds?
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