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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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bleach soak for shiitake
    #19237185 - 12/06/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have read on a couple occasions that people say a soak with a cap of bleach will help prevent trich.  It never says a cap of bleach to what.  I'm curious if anyone else does this and if they can give me a better approximate of how much to use and if it is safe.  I've also seen someone post they use a isopropanol + sea salt slurry to cover small spots of trich.  Anyone know where this idea came from and how to mix this as well?


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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19237205 - 12/06/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Are you talking prior to sterilization or as a remedy after it appears?

No way trich will survive sterilization.

Just out of curiosity, why are you asking the question?  Do you have a specific problem?


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: Jeff]
    #19237256 - 12/06/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

as a remedy for prevention.  I threw out another block today for having less than a dime sized spot of trich.  Usually happens after the first flush.  I read that you can add a cap of bleach to the soak water and it helps to deter it in succeeding flushes.


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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19237308 - 12/06/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

After a block has fruited or is fully colonized I don't necessarily worry about trich that much.  There is all sorts of nasty shit going on in your fruiting chamber.  Throw some of your condensate under a microscope if you don't believe me.  Different fungi will be popping up everywhere as well as bacteria and other single cell organisms. 
If it is localized than I would let it be,  If a block goes seriously bad then discard it. I am not an advocate of chemical treatment as a preventative. 
With that said stabilizing your pH can be a huge benefit.  I would stick with lime though instead of bleach.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: Jeff]
    #19237369 - 12/06/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What if I soaked in the same lime used in lime soaking straw?  I agree with your non chemical approach. I don't want anything that takes away the organicness of my mushrooms.  I figured if I let it be even that little bit would be possibly condemning the rest of my blocks.  I have thrown out several after a single flush due to very small blotches of green.


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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19238554 - 12/06/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've thought about just cutting the green off if there's a little spot.  I mean I smashed a whole block to pieces once and all the pieces kept fruiting, so what's cutting a little piece off gonna hurt?


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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: Forrester]
    #19238638 - 12/06/13 09:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I smack my bags around pretty good too. They are tough!


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19239587 - 12/07/13 05:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I remove chunks of green with a cleaned fork.  I soak snywhere from 1-36 hours depending upon the variables; how long left to dry out, what flush is it on, how cold is the soak h2o, etc.  I add  2 or 3 capfuls of bleach to 100gal stock tank when soaking blocks.  I'll have to dig to see if I can find the literature, which states how much ppm is in their soaking h2o.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: Aleon]
    #19239887 - 12/07/13 08:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You must be blessed with many blocks Aleon :P  I only get to soak 5 or 6 at a time.  I never thought to adjust soak times.  The water I use has been likely in the 60 degree range.  After about a 12 hour soak I have been doing what I believe RR said in a thread and squeezing the hell out of them and letting them sponge up water.  They gain significant amount more water from this than they are when I'm soaking them.  I'm reading through TMC right now and was hoping maybe i'd read about it in there.  The only searches i've been able to come up were a couple threads you commented on though Aleon.  So thanks for sharing :smile:


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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19239965 - 12/07/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CAP_TURTLE said:
After about a 12 hour soak I have been doing what I believe RR said in a thread and squeezing the hell out of them and letting them sponge up water.




I tend to break mine into many pieces when trying this.  Of course I usually let them get way too dried out so that's probably why...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: Forrester]
    #19240017 - 12/07/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

do you soak for a while first?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19240554 - 12/07/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, but when you let 'em dry out that much first they don't soak up much water very easily.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19240596 - 12/07/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I, too, have a problem with trich spots between flushes. I have had good luck squirting a bit of 10% bleach solution directly on the green, letting it soak in for about 30 seconds, and then spraying the spot off with a fairly high pressure nozzle. The bleach loosens the green spot so that the squirt-off gets it quite clean. If it is a sunny day, I let it dry in sunlight for about 20 minutes.

The trick to trich is to catch it early -- preferably before it forms green and spores. If the trich has penetrated into the block a bit, I cut it off with a sharp, sterile knife and then squirt. That said, my success rate is much higher if I catch it before it has gotten a solid toe-hold.

If the whole block it lightly trich infected, I will dunk it in a bucket of 10% bleach for thirty seconds, rinse it in a second, clean water bucket, and then set it to soak in clean water to rehydrate for another flush.


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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: mycoloco]
    #19240846 - 12/07/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

^^ Interesting info

Is there just regular green mold that's not trich? 

Cause mine get green mold, but it doesn't show up white first and all thick like trich.  Just slow growing, green all the time, mold.  That's not trich, is it?


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: Forrester]
    #19241288 - 12/07/13 02:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

mostly it is Trichoderma, especially if you cut away and see that it has penetrated into the log


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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: solumvita]
    #19241325 - 12/07/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah see mine's not like that at all, just splotchy small colonies of surface green mold.  It can be shaved off easily and if you cut under it, it doesn't penetrate at all.  This is blocks though, not logs.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineCAP_TURTLE
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: Forrester]
    #19241530 - 12/07/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Mine is always on the surface too Forrester.  I think jsut the skin itself catches it and not the internal block.  It's like the inside pulls away from the outerskin leaving a shell sort of and thats what contaminates.  My blocks get dry like your saying as well.  We just gotta keep plugging away and we'll be Masters before you know it :smile:


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
    #19241721 - 12/07/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The last two that got it I already threw outside, cause they weren't pinning for shit anyway.  Next time though I'm gonna just cut it off and see how that works.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: Forrester]
    #19243082 - 12/07/13 11:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Is there just regular green mold that's not trich? 

Cause mine get green mold, but it doesn't show up white first and all thick like trich.  Just slow growing, green all the time, mold.  That's not trich, is it?




I suppose you could be getting a little moss going, but that takes a long time. I find that the light, surface green which looks too harmless to really look like trich becomes obviously trich if you let it sit there for a few days. Like I say, the rescue of the triched block is greatly enhanced by getting to it while it is still just on the surface, and before it has penetrated the crust of the block.

I found that "de-triching" oyster blocks was much more difficult,probably because they lacked the protective shell of a Shiitake block.  That was back in the days when I was growing oysters on sterilized blocks of sawdust. Waste or time, compared to pasteurized straw!!


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The universe is an illusion of the living.


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Re: bleach soak for shiitake [Re: mycoloco]
    #19244002 - 12/08/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Just remove the trich spots on the blocks, either with your fingers, a tool or water. We have had blocks covered in trich be sprayed down with a garden hose removing the outer layer of the block continue to produce for months. To the point the blocks literally fall apart in place.

From what I have seen unless your block was contamed from the beginning it will do a decent job of keeping the trich on the outside of the block.

We are huge fans of using RR's methods of spraying the blocks down on a daily basis, At least with shiitake. When we sell blocks as grow kits we tell people to try and do that in their home, it goes a long way to the longevity to these blocks.


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