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4nik8
I am I Am


Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 255
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: evileye001]
#19235002 - 12/06/13 02:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I got news for all you I couldn't kill anyone for any reason people, there is a killer beast in all humans. Its there and you can't get rid of it because it is as much a part of you as any of your organs. Hopfully you never have to see its ugly face, because the face you see will be your own.
-------------------- A wise man once told me: "don't sweat the small stuff, it's all small stuff"
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: LordSenate]
#19235017 - 12/06/13 03:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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LordSenate, they were following orders. They pick people up and turned them over to Iraqi police. Those very same people would be that night's victims of sectarian violence found in the morning in the pile of dumped bodies. If it makes a difference my friend's unit was classified as "special forces capable" but was not actually special forces. I wonder if that kind of work was compartmentalized to that type of unit. It was all under orders and well covered up, as the media at least has never even reported that activity. Although it is official US policy to engage in "rendition" which is picking people up and turning them over to others who specialize in torture/murder. I'm glad you didn't have to diectly participate in that kind of work, it changes you, for the worse.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19235083 - 12/06/13 03:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You do know you aren't supposed to follow orders that are immoral, or are "illegal" ? Although the term illegal is a grey area in a war zone but still.
I suppose the Iraqi police could do that kind of stuff once prisoners are turned over but there really isn't much recourse... Let them go and kill people (potentially) or turn them in.. That's a difficult decision to make.
We usually kept are detainees ourselves. We had a little jail like area and they were treated as well as they could be. I had to do guard duty with them tons of times but you can't be too nice or they will ask for your shit on all the time so you have to be respectful but stern.
Yeah having to torture or murder people would fuck someone (does fuck people up).. I'm really glad I didn't have to deal with any of that. I wasn't disagreeing with you that those things happen. I was just trying to say that from multiple deployments and all the people I met throughout my service, I only ran into one person that was of questionable character. Everyone else had their issues, sure. But they were good people.
But yeah, you aren't required to follow orders that are unethical or immoral. Of course if your whole chain of command is telling you to do it and you have no one to turn to in sight to protect you when you disobey them, then its kind of a moot point. But I still think as a whole the military is not what people make it out to be.. Not to that extreme anyway.
Also I don't know about how it would change being in special forces.. But they certainly live by a different set of rules.. Walking around with no helmet or bullet proof vest on, all sorts of shit.
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19235087 - 12/06/13 03:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Military discipline and effectiveness is built on the foundation of obedience to orders. Recruits are taught to obey, immediately and without question, orders from their superiors, right from day-one of boot camp.
Military members who fail to obey the lawful orders of their superiors risk serious consequences. Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) makes it a crime for a military member to WILLFULLY disobey a superior commissioned officer. Article 91 makes it a crime to WILLFULLY disobey a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. Article 92 makes it a crime to disobey any lawful order (the disobedience does not have to be "willful" under this article).
In fact, under Article 90, during times of war, a military member who willfully disobeys a superior commissioned officer can be sentenced to death.
Seems like pretty good motivation to obey any order you're given, right? Nope. These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.
"I was only following orders," has been unsuccessfully used as a legal defense in hundreds of cases (probably most notably by Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg tribunals following World War II). The defense didn't work for them, nor has it worked in hundreds of cases since.
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Sanpedrox
North of the wall


Registered: 08/25/13
Posts: 198
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: LordSenate]
#19235099 - 12/06/13 03:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What would determine as illegal? I'm sure illegal orders are given and soldiers comply with them because they trust the word of the officer and are to scared to disobey.
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LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Sanpedrox]
#19235104 - 12/06/13 03:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Immoral might be a better word... Just, wrong would work fine. If you feel something's not right with what you're doing then it might be best to assess the situation.
As pasted above, saying you were just following orders won't stop you from getting hammered if shit rolls down hill. Its been proven countless times.
That being said, you are correct in that you should be scared to disobey.. The catch 22 is that if you follow an "illegal" order, you could potentially get fucked legally.. Then again if you are in the thick of it with your unit and an officer tells you to do something, and you don't.. They can kill you on the spot. So it's a difficult situation to imagine.
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Constantine
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)



Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 4,643
Loc:
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Quote:
Moorning Due said: What if you 100% could get away with it. What if the person you were going to kill was really bad?
Could you do it?
No. I like to think that I would if the person was " really bad " but I know I wouldn't have the balls to, and I couldn't live with myself after that anyway.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Constantine]
#19235148 - 12/06/13 04:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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seriously like 17,000 people kill themselves EDIT:with a gun! every year and the majority are soldiers
Edited by Konyap (12/06/13 04:21 AM)
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A Day InThe Life
Jack of All


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1,175
Loc: Canada
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: CodeLion]
#19235183 - 12/06/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CodeLion said: 100%? I'd try it out. I'd probably use a scalpel and nick a major artery. I'd want Singin' the Rain playing in the background... I'd picture it as in a kitchen, or maybe a living room... some place home like. I'd disable them with a temporary Neuromuscular-blocking drug and talk to them like a friend, ignoring their pleas for mercy. I'd talk about how excited I was to get to know them, and about all the things I learned while stalking them. I'd tell them how I thought their family would react (He'd be a stable, office type with a pretty wife, two young girls, say 8 and 10) I'd feel a little apprehension sweep over me knowing once's he is gone I'd lose such a good friend... I'd put a montage of pictures and videos of his life up on a screen is his field of vision then I'd slowly get out my scalpel... I'd nick his left carotid artery. He'd bleed out as his children laughed on the screen and I'd feel an overwhelming emptyness knowing Harry is gone forever (his name would be harry, by the way.) I'd soon cheer up though. I can't stay sad for long. I need to clean up my mess I mad while playing. And there are plenty of new friends to make.
Now that's fucked up.. 
Life or death though? Yeah, probably. Not sure if I could stomach some of the ruthless shit the governor does in the walking dead ... But u never know till your in that situation.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Konyap]
#19235192 - 12/06/13 05:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is another one of them questions that I don't think you can really answer truthfully if you've never been in the situation...
I know I could, almost did it once... I tripped a few days before so I took my gun apart as a precautionary measure, I was putting it back together to murder my brother-in-law, but I couldn't find the slide block, which is an essential piece...
If it wasn't for the shroomery teaching me how to grow mushrooms I'd be in prison for another ~23 years, so thanks for that.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: TrentBoyett]
#19235201 - 12/06/13 05:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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.
Edited by Konyap (12/06/13 05:07 AM)
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Konyap]
#19235280 - 12/06/13 06:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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My hearts pleads no, my brain says no, I believe my instinct doesn't care though.
i'd kill someone if I had no other choice, I won't murder someone just for the sake of it.
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ImFukNCLUELESS
I SPIT ON PEOPLE


Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 1,580
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Beanhead]
#19235289 - 12/06/13 06:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes if i felt it was just
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how to pass a drug test FOO MAN'S WBS TEK damions5050's coir tek DONATE TO THE "IM FUCKING BROKE FUND" 1PtqhURaxtCpGpeUBNqeZi7XnmKwWe8WWf "my girl said it's OK to have a little penis I prefer she didnt have a penis at all"-prisoner#1
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Konyap]
#19235294 - 12/06/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Mad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19235312 - 12/06/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Soulidarity said: I think I could and would kill someone if placed into a serious enough situation. I think I definitely have psychopathic tendencies
Of course you do, you're Australian.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,002
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-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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highc
creator



Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 3,592
Loc: maryland
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: Asante]
#19235365 - 12/06/13 07:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sure would. Who wouldn't given the right scenario. One that comes right to mind is fighting for your life. If you had to kill someone to survive, you probably would. Or like if you raped my girlfriend or killed/touched my kids. I'd stick needles deep under your fingernails and crack your face with a bottle until your jaw bone is clogging your esophagus.
Only under extreme measures though. I'm harmless. I hate to even fight. Am built for it but it jus usually never solves anything other then who's a better fighter.
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Mad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: highc]
#19235376 - 12/06/13 07:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here's some wise words from Alex Jones:
You've gotta have Turbo-Dinosaur Power if you wanna survive in a self-defense situation.
Edited by Mad_Larkin (12/06/13 07:11 AM)
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CodeLion
Helix be Praised



Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 907
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Moorning Due said: I'd like to play a game with you.
What kind of game? Would we laugh as your flesh dissolves under a slow drip of sulfuric acid? Would we grin as we explore the nature and appearance of your internal organs? Would you flinch as my scalpel touched your face? As your identity is slowly sliced away? Would you cry knowing our game is soon to end? Would you feel relief?
Your name isn't Harry is it?
-------------------- hmm...
Edited by CodeLion (12/06/13 12:03 PM)
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Moorning Due
been know to derp


Registered: 10/08/13
Posts: 8,061
Loc: ether jet of existence
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Re: Would you kill someone? [Re: CodeLion]
#19236244 - 12/06/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CodeLion said:
Quote:
Moorning Due said: I'd like to play a game with you.
What kind of game? Would we laugh as your flesh dissolves under a slow drip of sulfuric acid? Would we grin as we explore the nature and appearance of your internal organs? Would you flinch as my scalpel touched your face? As your identity is slowly sliced away? Would you cry knowing our game is soon to end? Would you feel relief?
Was supposed to be a quote from the movie "Saw"...
I wouldn't play anything with you buddy. You got either a very creative but sick mind, or you have some SERIOUS issues. Either way, if you tried that shit with me, I would get straight up freaky deaky back on your ass. Don't fuck with someone that does vivisection for a hobby.
And I wouldn't cry, I would just laugh...
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