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Offlinehornedgopher
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Registered: 08/09/09
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How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium
    #19235302 - 12/06/13 06:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So I have two of these humidifiers:



I also have timers (WeMo's). I'd like to somehow hook the humidifiers up directly so they mist my cakes.

Having not seen any humidifiers placed directly in terrariums, I figure there is a flaw with that idea. So I would like to assimilate them into my shotgun terrarium so I don't have to mist so regularly. Any thoughts on how I'd do that?


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OfflineDark76


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 121
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: hornedgopher]
    #19235320 - 12/06/13 06:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Don't. Just don't.

Various forms of such "automation" have be tried countless times. There's a reason they're not popular.

If you can't spend the time misting, pick another tek.

If you reside in an arid region, then you can simply run the humidifier in the room if you're that worried that the perlite and misting won't do it's job.

But, you will have to do some of the leg work. It's one of the pleasures of the hobby.

EDIT: I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this terrarium was a shotgun fruiting chamber. Even if it's not, I believe the comment is still valid. Please provide more details into the tek you're using if you want a more thorough answer, even if it will essentially be the same answer.

EDIT2:  Oops. OP did say it was a shotgun terrarium.


Edited by Dark76 (12/06/13 09:59 AM)


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OfflineKalypto
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Registered: 09/19/12
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Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: Dark76]
    #19235497 - 12/06/13 08:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dark76 said:
Don't. Just don't.

Various forms of such "automation" have be tried countless times. There's a reason they're not popular.

If you can't spend the time misting, pick another tek.

If you reside in an arid region, then you can simply run the humidifier in the room if you're that worried that the perlite and misting won't do it's job.

But, you will have to do some of the leg work. It's one of the pleasures of the hobby.

EDIT: I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this terrarium was a shotgun fruiting chamber. Even if it's not, I believe the comment is still valid. Please provide more details into the tek you're using if you want a more thorough answer, even if it will essentially be the same answer.





This is not true , there are numerous automation TEKS out there that work amazingly


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: Kalypto]
    #19235520 - 12/06/13 08:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kalypto said:
Quote:

Dark76 said:
Don't. Just don't.

Various forms of such "automation" have be tried countless times. There's a reason they're not popular.

If you can't spend the time misting, pick another tek.

If you reside in an arid region, then you can simply run the humidifier in the room if you're that worried that the perlite and misting won't do it's job.

But, you will have to do some of the leg work. It's one of the pleasures of the hobby.

EDIT: I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this terrarium was a shotgun fruiting chamber. Even if it's not, I believe the comment is still valid. Please provide more details into the tek you're using if you want a more thorough answer, even if it will essentially be the same answer.





This is not true , there are numerous automation TEKS out there that work amazingly




not for cakes. The monotub is pretty close to automated, and green houses require maintenance but are generally automated once dialed in. A sgfc needs eyes because a automated misting set up can either mist too mush or too little, and then it's on a timer so the effects only get worse to the point of having waterlogged cakes or dry cakes. Fanning is not FAE and having a humidifier attached to a SGFC will destroy it's intended function. 

Quote:

Fruiting Chamber
A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.
This is what can happen if you make your SGFC the right way.
Here's what will happen if you do it the wrong way. You'll likely rage quit.

Misting and Fanning.
This is a source of much grief and 100's of posts a week here. Misting and fanning is not at all complicated as it needs to be. In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all. Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.

FAE
This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to eachother as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 90%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE.

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Fanning is not a replacement for constant FAE.

You would need to fan several times per hour.



:whathesaid:




use a SGFC for cakes


Edited by Trusted cuItivator (12/06/13 08:32 AM)


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OfflineKalypto
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Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 2,089
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Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19235557 - 12/06/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Kalypto said:
Quote:

Dark76 said:
Don't. Just don't.

Various forms of such "automation" have be tried countless times. There's a reason they're not popular.

If you can't spend the time misting, pick another tek.

If you reside in an arid region, then you can simply run the humidifier in the room if you're that worried that the perlite and misting won't do it's job.

But, you will have to do some of the leg work. It's one of the pleasures of the hobby.

EDIT: I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this terrarium was a shotgun fruiting chamber. Even if it's not, I believe the comment is still valid. Please provide more details into the tek you're using if you want a more thorough answer, even if it will essentially be the same answer.





This is not true , there are numerous automation TEKS out there that work amazingly




not for cakes. The monotub is pretty close to automated, and green houses require maintenance but are generally automated once dialed in. A sgfc needs eyes because a automated misting set up can either mist too mush or too little, and then it's on a timer so the effects only get worse to the point of having waterlogged cakes or dry cakes. Fanning is not FAE and having a humidifier attached to a SGFC will destroy it's intended function. 

Quote:

Fruiting Chamber
A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.
This is what can happen if you make your SGFC the right way.
Here's what will happen if you do it the wrong way. You'll likely rage quit.

Misting and Fanning.
This is a source of much grief and 100's of posts a week here. Misting and fanning is not at all complicated as it needs to be. In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all. Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.

FAE
This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to eachother as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 90%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE.

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Fanning is not a replacement for constant FAE.

You would need to fan several times per hour.



:whathesaid:




use a SGFC for cakes



True not for cakes but if he wants automation he should know that there are other viable options in case he values automation over PF tek


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OfflineSamhainJ
I wanna rock out, in my dreams
Registered: 05/16/04
Posts: 1,002
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: Kalypto]
    #19235603 - 12/06/13 09:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Why is everyone always asking if they can hook fans and humidifers up in totes for cakes? It seems like punching or drilling holes in an sgfc and pouring moist perlite in is alot less work than half of these crazy ideas people have:shrug:


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OfflineDark76


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 121
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: SamhainJ]
    #19235735 - 12/06/13 10:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I just used the search engine -- fancy that, huh -- and found the following...

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

SuPaTriP said:

Now at first the SGFC was very attractive. I could run the PF Tek with the simple FC and am confident I would have great success. But the misting and constant manual FAE is not very plausible in my situation




Exactly what leads you to say that?  At the time I designed the shotgun terrarium, I was working 7 days a week, 12 hour days.  My terrariums had to be left unattended for 13 to 14 hours a day.

You don't have to constantly fan or mist.  Do it when you come home at night and then again before you leave in the morning.  It's as automated as they get, and it has no moving parts to fail and ruin your day.
RR




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

A shotgun can be left alone for a week.  It's not ideal, but it's also not a deal killer.  Mist well before you leave and be sure the terrarium is in the middle of a room, and raised up on blocks so air can circulate well.
RR




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

I know that automated SGFC are discouraged by a few of the TCs here on the forum, but I was wondering about timers.




No timer in the world comes with a set of eyeballs.  You should mist by hand so you know how much and how often.  Don't try to automate a shotgun terrarium because it already is automated for fresh air exchange.  Doing so is like replacing the engine on your car with a rubber band.
RR




Perhaps this is more in line with what the original poster wants to hear.


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OfflineKalypto
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Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 2,089
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: Dark76]
    #19235911 - 12/06/13 10:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dark76 said:
I just used the search engine -- fancy that, huh -- and found the following...

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

SuPaTriP said:

Now at first the SGFC was very attractive. I could run the PF Tek with the simple FC and am confident I would have great success. But the misting and constant manual FAE is not very plausible in my situation




Exactly what leads you to say that?  At the time I designed the shotgun terrarium, I was working 7 days a week, 12 hour days.  My terrariums had to be left unattended for 13 to 14 hours a day.

You don't have to constantly fan or mist.  Do it when you come home at night and then again before you leave in the morning.  It's as automated as they get, and it has no moving parts to fail and ruin your day.
RR




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

A shotgun can be left alone for a week.  It's not ideal, but it's also not a deal killer.  Mist well before you leave and be sure the terrarium is in the middle of a room, and raised up on blocks so air can circulate well.
RR




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

I know that automated SGFC are discouraged by a few of the TCs here on the forum, but I was wondering about timers.




No timer in the world comes with a set of eyeballs.  You should mist by hand so you know how much and how often.  Don't try to automate a shotgun terrarium because it already is automated for fresh air exchange.  Doing so is like replacing the engine on your car with a rubber band.
RR




Perhaps this is more in line with what the original poster wants to hear.






:thumbup:


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Offlinehornedgopher
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Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 63
Loc: Alaska
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: Kalypto]
    #19237933 - 12/06/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the info guys.

Is fanning necessary for a shotgun chamber? I thought the holes took care of that?

It seems like pouring water on the perlite and mixing it around and/or misting heavily wasnt enough to keep the humidity up. Maybe i just didnt do it enough.

The humidifier idea seems a natural and easy to implement one. I actually have a third humidifier propped against the tub next to a hole.

The timers i have can be turned off/on on my phone. Really neat stuff. I can have them mist for a minute every hour if i desire. Not sure the optimal timing. If a 1 sq. ft. hole isnt too large ill just prop humidifiers next to one.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
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Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19237974 - 12/06/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
A sgfc needs eyes because a automated misting set up can either mist too mush or too little, and then it's on a timer so the effects only get worse to the point of having waterlogged cakes or dry cakes. Fanning is not FAE and having a humidifier attached to a SGFC will destroy it's intended function.



:whathesaid:

Basic Principles of the SGFC
Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Principles and construction of Shotgun Fruiting Chambers (SGFC):

This guide is not focused on PF/BRF cakes per se. It's really just the basics of how the SGFC works.

How it's made

A properly made SGFC Is made of a clear/transparent tote with 1/4" holes on all 6 sides about 2" apart in a grid pattern. All 6 sides means the 4 vertical sides AND top AND bottom.

They need 4"-5" of damp perlite. You may need to rinse the perlite a few times to get rid of the dust. The dust can accumulate at the bottom, clogging the holes. A few pieces of perlite may fall through the hole, but only a few.

Principle of operation

A properly made SGFC uses natural air currents to create high relative humidity (RH) and constant fresh air exchange (FAE).

The fresh air that flows in through the bottom holes rises up through the damp perlite assisting in evaporation. This evaporation is where you get your humidity.

Because humid air rises, it flows up and out the other holes, thus allowing more fresh air in through the bottom. This is how you get constant FAE without sacrificing humidity.

Some Things to Consider

The SGFC must not sit directly on a flat surface. It needs to be elevated. If not elevated, air can't flow in through the bottom and the whole system breaks down.

Running a fan in the room with your SGFC will also disrupt the natural currents.

Once inside the SGFC, your cakes will need to misted and fanned. Because of the constant FAE, your cakes will dry out if not misted regularly. Schedules may vary slightly from region to region, but 3-6 times a day is pretty common.

Mist your cakes till they glisten with moisture and then fan the SGFC out. There is a magic moment when your cakes are no longer glistening, but they still appear moist, this is when you want to mist and fan again. Do this as often as required.

Mist cakes directly with a fine mist. The over-spray helps keep your perlite damp. Misting the walls serves absolutely no purpose.




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OfflineGr13nMushDude
Stranger


Registered: 05/25/13
Posts: 76
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19239042 - 12/06/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

...  half noob (ive done 2 small grows) to noob, humidifiers are for marthas not for tubs they each hold it differntly ....if your doing cakes look up cup of shrooms another alternitive or bucket tek for biger


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: How to hook humidifier(s) into terrarium [Re: hornedgopher]
    #19239724 - 12/07/13 07:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hornedgopher said:
Thanks for the info guys.

Is fanning necessary for a shotgun chamber? I thought the holes took care of that?

It seems like pouring water on the perlite and mixing it around and/or misting heavily wasnt enough to keep the humidity up. Maybe i just didnt do it enough.

The humidifier idea seems a natural and easy to implement one. I actually have a third humidifier propped against the tub next to a hole.

The timers i have can be turned off/on on my phone. Really neat stuff. I can have them mist for a minute every hour if i desire. Not sure the optimal timing. If a 1 sq. ft. hole isnt too large ill just prop humidifiers next to one.




as said earlier

FAE
This is a phenomenon (Fresh air exchange) in a properly built SGFC this is constantly happening. The perlite is naturally cooler than the surrounding air this moves molecules closer to eachother as the lose kinetic energy. This creates low pressure which pulls air up through the bottom holes. As the air moves through the perlite it picks up humidity and keeps the chamber at or above 90%RH. This occurs naturally without the fanning and is why we like to have no fans in the room and is also why fanning after misting is not a replacement for FAE.

Fruiting Chamber
A SGFC has 1/4" holes spaces 2 inches apart in a grid patten on all six sides. 4-6 inches of moist perlite. No attachments made to it with any extra things like humidifiers. Optimally the SGFC should be in the middle of a room. No fans should be run in the room with the SGFC, but a cracked window is OK. A humidifier in your house can help to raise the ambient RH but don't put it near your SGFC put it in the other corner of the room if you do decide to run a humidifier at all. The SGFC IMO should have at least 6-12 inches of room from any wall on all 6 sides. This includes finding some sort of raisers to elevate the SGFC off of the surface it's on.

Misting and Fanning.
This is a source of much grief and 100's of posts a week here. Misting and fanning is not at all complicated as it needs to be. In general you'll mist your cakes until they glisten(yes they can even with the verm on them) and then fan right after the mist. You can mist your cakes directly and you should. When you notice the cake is no longer glistening you can mist it again and then fan. This occurs on average of 3-5 times a day. Don't worry about sleeping or being gone 12 hours. Just do it when you're around and don't forget about it is all. Fanning is not FAE it's only purpose is to relive the high RH air so that the cakes can get a kickstart on evaporation.


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