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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: deCypher]
    #19222188 - 12/03/13 03:13 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

The right thing to do is what you decide to do.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19222238 - 12/03/13 03:24 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

That doesn't help one come to a conclusion.

Suppose you're a utilitarian; then the right thing to do would be to do whatever generates the most amount of happiness.  Therefore I should not kill myself in the scenario I outlined.

Supposed I'm an egoist (as you are too, I assume, Icey).  Then the right thing to do would be to do whatever makes ME the happiest.  But knowing that I would be damning my friends, family and loved ones to more suffering than I would experience if I just manned up and stayed alive would produce so much guilt that I just wouldn't be happy doing the deed.  See the problem?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: deCypher]
    #19222248 - 12/03/13 03:27 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

I don't see it that way.  If you decide to live for others you do it because it pleases you or satisfies you the most.  So the right thing is what you decide brings you the most satisfaction.  Which is what I said.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: deCypher]
    #19222356 - 12/03/13 03:54 PM (8 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
That doesn't help one come to a conclusion.

Suppose you're a utilitarian; then the right thing to do would be to do whatever generates the most amount of happiness.  Therefore I should not kill myself in the scenario I outlined.

Supposed I'm an egoist (as you are too, I assume, Icey).  Then the right thing to do would be to do whatever makes ME the happiest.  But knowing that I would be damning my friends, family and loved ones to more suffering than I would experience if I just manned up and stayed alive would produce so much guilt that I just wouldn't be happy doing the deed.  See the problem?




I agree with you here, truth is not what it works ... this is a lie too for powers life over opportunists of things forced as their sources

truth is what is right objectively ... so else right that hurt you somehow to admit it .. this is where freedom reside, when it is not you while meaning something else .. so you would invent you out of all different right and stay free


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450]
    #19230813 - 12/05/13 01:32 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

redfox7450 said:
hmm, i disagree. i believe it's your time when it's your time. it's not really something that should be in your hands.. that's just my opinion though.




For the most part death is out of your hands.  However, what if one is in a confused state of paranoia?  Caught in a cycle determined by mental illness, they obviously can't decide for themselves.

What of those that can?  What if you are dying of excruciating bone cancer that has your bones exploding with tumors or some other such slow painful death?  Should they not be given the choice of sticking it out for however many years or ending it quietly and quickly of their own accord?

Do you have the right to decide what they do with their soul?  What about a population?  Would you let a majority of people you disagree with choose for you?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Allisterem]
    #19230937 - 12/05/13 02:08 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineredfox7450
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19231020 - 12/05/13 02:28 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

i don't really feel it's necessary to continue this debate, so i'm just gonna agree and leave it at that.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450]
    #19231026 - 12/05/13 02:31 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

:excellent:  excellent


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineredfox7450
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19231107 - 12/05/13 02:54 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

hahah


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InvisibleChasingBliss
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450]
    #19231520 - 12/05/13 04:34 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Personally, I think we all have the right to die. The same way we have the right to live. It's obviously trickier when it comes to people who are not able to decide their own fate, like coma patients for example. But if someone with terminal cancer wants to die before they endure the rest of their days in hurendous pain, who are we to force them to live through that?


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:leaf:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: ChasingBliss]
    #19231533 - 12/05/13 04:36 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

My helium tank agrees. :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19231683 - 12/05/13 05:10 PM (8 years, 1 day ago)

yes who are you to talk about suffer as if it cant be happening on you !

those kind of pervert abuse of evil life meant to enforce an appearance of conscious rights as a disgusting animal begging to die, would surely one day be forced to pay for ever, it wont stop..

till then, talk about yourselves .. stop pointing fingers on others for negative things relative to your condition of being too.. say the negative you mean about you, when no one could lie to himself and no self would mean being someone else either ...

anyway, euthanasia is about being supported to die, not about killing own self or suicide ... it shows how far you mean to enforce your god glory over human beings ends

the result matter as an objective value, but only if it is positive
something negative don't justify another thing being positive

but conscious beings is never of any result, it is its fact individuality

so a normal being state is not according to what he is getting nor his end

beings dying are not the pain nor the preparation to death

it is still a conscious being like any other subject, even more then any healthy being


Edited by absols (12/05/13 05:14 PM)


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Invisiblehmmn


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Re: euthanasia [Re: absols]
    #19234532 - 12/06/13 01:32 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Hmm...

What do you all think determines whether a person will be for or against euthanasia?

I believe it would be best if euthanasia were available to just about anybody, but that a waiting period and perhaps some kind of counseling requirement (not approval, but simply a requirement to obtain end of life counseling from a psychologist or religious leader of one's choosing) would be necessary to prevent wrongful death caused by volatile emotions.

I believe this because I believe it would be the most helpful thing for the most people.  It would allow very ill people to end their lives peacefully, and would allow very unhappy yet healthy people to do the same, but not without some contemplation.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450]
    #19234675 - 12/06/13 02:27 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

redfox7450 said:
yeah, but you didn't get the decision to be born into this world, so why have the decision when you go? it just doesn't make sense to me. and if there were voting on it, i would vote against it. if you want to kill yourself then pick up a gun and do it, or whatever it is you have to do. don't put it into the hands of others.




No, it's already in other's hands because they are denying people the drugs that sanely and painlessly end their lives.  It's bullshit that one's only viable option out would be morbid and degrading.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19234699 - 12/06/13 02:36 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19234710 - 12/06/13 02:40 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

This goes back to peoples opinions outweighing peoples rights, which shouldn't happen.


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: hmmn]
    #19234731 - 12/06/13 02:48 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

didn't you read what I said ?? talk about yourself there don't dare mention anybody else !

euthanasia, is the will to be supported to die, not for ending suffer but for ending existing... it is the freedom right to not exist, when existence is all about oneself realizations ... it concerns only selves conscious then when they are not rejecting existence as a whole and mean just themselves death forever ...

anyone is alone, it is THE fact, objectively and subjectively, then it is about being supported positively, because in truth it is impossible to end its own self ..
so it is about existence truth justifications, we exist because everything exist and everyone else .. so we can help each others and communicate right according to objective positive ends terms

what you mean to give power to yourself over an individual existence, is all to the evil you are in being only through the perspective of negative force on anybody else ..

existing is in truth, that is how it is a conscious state not depending on pleasures and what ones are doing, that is how people in pains and negative bodies health are very much existing the same still

but the fact is what existence in truth cant be but positive superiority so constant more better ends .. when it is obviously the opposite fact, than absolute evil life rules and ways, must be the fact, the evil you are !:crazy2:
how truth knowledge are one god business in ensuring being the only positive existence by destroying ruining killing violating ... all else rights !!...

the more the being is in bad shape, the more he is free from everything truth ... then what is left is only him... so his freedom right there to decide to not exist anymore is full

people could hesitate when they have good reasons to stay, this is where speculations about forever play a big role to justify wrong insistent ways to take selves existence too seriously ...

but any is only him, so if he is negatively being, then his will or any expression of him prevail.. it is what define his individuality and not his physical condition, when negative condition mean being not in truth ...

even if he sounds reacting, it is not your business ... some people could be living the best life possible but still they don't want to exist ... it is their own selves rights wills
again, when any is only possibly objective from all the efforts that any will do in realizing himself objectively ... you cannot force that to please the dirty god powers out of absolute force


Edited by absols (12/06/13 02:54 AM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: euthanasia [Re: absols]
    #19234756 - 12/06/13 02:56 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

absols, can I ask you something off-topic?

:lol:


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: teknix]
    #19234798 - 12/06/13 03:16 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

:hi: NO :crazy2:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: euthanasia [Re: absols]
    #19234809 - 12/06/13 03:20 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

:aliendance:


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