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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: Asante]
    #19245158 - 12/08/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
Whether they are genetic or environmental is not the point.

Society tries very hard to ingrain in us that there aren't any differences between races and that it's wrong and racist to think that there are, but it's not true.





When those differences are environmental, a conclusion which just about any reasonable scholar arrives on, then there ARE NO differences between the races because race isnt environment, its genetics. Insufficient genetic basis in fact to even consider it a race, according to science.  Its like calling blondes a race.




I agree with you that's they're primarily if not completely environmental, but race as a form of grouping is a valid indicator of environment, among other data.

From one of Nisbett's critiques on Jensen (pg4):

"If the Black–White IQ gap is largely hereditary, then children having one Black and one White parent should have the same IQ on average, regardless of which parent is Black. But if one assumes that mothers are particularly important to the intellectual socialization of their children and if the socialization practices of Whites are more favorable to IQ development than those of Black mothers, then children of White mothers and Black fathers should have higher IQs than children of Black mothers and White fathers. This could of course not have a plausible genetic explanation. In fact, it emerges that children of White mothers and Black fathers have IQs 9 points higher than children with Black mothers and White fathers (Willerman, Naylor, & Myrianthopoulos, 1974)."

Same source, (pg6):

"Under the hereditarian model, it should make relatively little difference whether Black children are adopted by Black families or by White families. Under an environmental model that assumes that White families are especially likely to intervene in their children’s socialization in ways that result in their having high IQs, it should make a substantial difference whether the Black child is raised with a Black or White family. And in fact, it does. Moore (1986) found that Black children raised by Black middle-class families had mean IQs of 104, whereas Black children raised by White middle-class families had mean IQs of 117."

If the primary factor of having a lower IQ is not genetic predisposition but, apparently, being raised by a black mother, and if being born a black kid in the US makes it far more likely that your biological father is not around as is well established in many other threads you've participated in, at what point do you not draw the connection between race and environment? It seems to me that race is a pretty good indicator of behavior and environment, as statistics repeatedly show. Therefore ignoring race for lack of genetic definition or for need to be politically correct, is ignorant.

I just don't understand how you guys can claim that there are no differences between races, there clearly are cultural, ideological, and intellectual differences that fall in line with the categorized races. If statistics meaningfully pointed to similar data for blondes vs brunettes vs gingers, I would accept it into my worldview as well. It would not matter to me what the categorization of the hair types was called, even if it was "race".


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: RiderOnTheStorm] * 1
    #19245164 - 12/08/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

this thread continues to dwindle into oblivion.

black people... blah blah blah... statistics... lalala... people talknig about nothing... blahlbalhalhasglsgderfsgvwersgaweyh y


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19245197 - 12/08/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LittleDaddy said:
You're justifying your claims because of another opinion, which isn't legitimate. Where are your peer-reviewed studies to back your claims? It's a social construction. Nothing genetic. No evidence backs that it's genetic.

And yes, whether it is environmental or genetic is the point because since it's environmental it shows that it's a cultural construction and  something we can change. there aren't any differences between races, we choose to believe there are and accept it. that's what oppresses people.




Fuck off with "isn't legitimate", as if your opinion isn't influenced by anyone else's. I haven't made the claim that the differences are genetic, nice straw man though.

Do tell me, how do we make black fathers stick around and make black mothers encourage intellectual development? And what benefit do we get from pretending it's not a race issue, considering that asians and hispanics and whites don't seem to need the same intervention?

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
this thread continues to dwindle into oblivion.

black people... blah blah blah... statistics... lalala... people talknig about nothing... blahlbalhalhasglsgderfsgvwersgaweyh y




Oh look another award winning post by akira_akuma. There are many other threads that may entertain you more.


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Edited by RiderOnTheStorm (12/08/13 02:05 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: RiderOnTheStorm] * 1
    #19245216 - 12/08/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, you hate all of my posts. boo hoo.

have a real conversation where you aren't trying to vilify people, posting big wholly "borrowed" articles that say nothing from your own point of view; because you can't back your own bullshit up... oh and more of these wonderful posts with you raving...

Quote:

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
I dont owe you nothin dawg and dont even play son i bust heads like urvy day talkin about periods like some kind of woman lol i bet you payed atension in school to you fuckin boner lol; i play for keeps and if you want to hate thats like your pergoative because this is a free country and all GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS AND NOT THE ATHESITS AND HOMOSEXUALS TRYIN TO TAKE AWAY FREE SPEECH








^ yeh, you never make any weak posts.

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:

Fuck off



you fuck off. you don't know shit about statistical analysis, and you don't know shit about black, hispanic, or asian people.


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OfflineLittleDaddy
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #19245274 - 12/08/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:

Do tell me, how do we make black fathers stick around and make black mothers encourage intellectual development? And what benefit do we get from pretending it's not a race issue, considering that asians and hispanics and whites don't seem to need the same intervention?






By eliminating this concept that we push onto them that race does exist and that that's how they should act. You saying that it's not genetic shows that it doesn't exist except when we make it exist.

http://wupa.wustl.edu/record_archive/1998/10-15-98/articles/races.html

It's not significant whether you believe it to be genetic or not - it's significant that you believe it exists because that's what continues this concept of "race" that pushes people into these cultural boundaries we've made for them.

And you're right on the opinion part, I suppose I didn't support my case by saying that.

You telling me to fuck off isn't cool.


--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #19245283 - 12/08/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

he's just being who he is. a glutton for punishment.

but don't worry. it's significant for HIM to believe, it's significant for YOU to believe... otherwise, you wouldn't be having this great conversation.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19245410 - 12/08/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hey guys border collies are only better sheep herders than chiwawas because of cultural differences.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: Shins]
    #19245414 - 12/08/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

the dogs don't care.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: Shins]
    #19245418 - 12/08/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And german shepards are only better attack dogs than yorkshire terriers because of cultural differences too.

get real PC fuckheads.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: Shins]
    #19245435 - 12/08/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

differences between dog breeds are very much greater than that between human ethnic groups.


--------------------
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #19245448 - 12/08/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So basically your view is that we should get rid of the word race for it's implication of genetic difference, and hope that everybody feels more connected?

I almost wish I was that idealistic. Almost.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: Asante]
    #19245480 - 12/08/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The principle still stands.

Keep in mind that people love dogs of all kinds (myself included) for different reasons.

just because a border colly is an excellent sheep dog  doesn't mean its as good of a rat hunter that a terrier is.

I prefer to embrace the differences between genetic straind and the unique properties they exhibit.


like you don't always want to smoke afghan kush, sometimes a nice sativa hits the spot.

To say that genetics play no part is just dumb and ignorant to biology and genetics. 

I see it like a gang of superheroes, each has his/her own unique strengths and weaknesses which can very much compliment one another when people come together.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #19245488 - 12/08/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
So basically your view is that we should get rid of the word race for it's implication of genetic difference, and hope that everybody feels more connected?

I almost wish I was that idealistic. Almost.



GREAT post. really stood out. :congrats:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: Shins]
    #19245495 - 12/08/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The principle still stands.

Keep in mind that people love dogs of all kinds (myself included) for different reasons.

just because a border colly is an excellent sheep dog  doesn't mean its as good of a rat hunter that a terrier is.

I prefer to embrace the differences between genetic straind and the unique properties they exhibit.


like you don't always want to smoke afghan kush, sometimes a nice sativa hits the spot.

To say that genetics play no part is just dumb and ignorant to biology and genetics. 

I see it like a gang of superheroes, each has his/her own unique strengths and weaknesses which can very much compliment one another when people come together.


agreed. biodiversity is better then the arrogance in supposing that everyone has "the same skills" and that some people are "smarter then others".


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OfflineLittleDaddy
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #19245757 - 12/08/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
So basically your view is that we should get rid of the word race for it's implication of genetic difference, and hope that everybody feels more connected?

I almost wish I was that idealistic. Almost.




No. Get rid of the idea of races.

I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but over time it will.


--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #19245779 - 12/08/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

your opinion is true.

but don't let me tell you that. just give me bullshit for having another opinion.

like everyone else has, but please... remember. your opinion is right on point. Rider isn't going to be in a position to agree with you though.


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OfflineLittleDaddy
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #19245844 - 12/08/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
your opinion is true.

but don't let me tell you that. just give me bullshit for having another opinion.

like everyone else has, but please... remember. your opinion is right on point. Rider isn't going to be in a position to agree with you though.




thanks for joining in the conversation. I think that's a good indication for me to leave this thread. haha. have a good one. :grin:


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The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: LittleDaddy] * 1
    #19245850 - 12/08/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LittleDaddy said:
Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
So basically your view is that we should get rid of the word race for it's implication of genetic difference, and hope that everybody feels more connected?

I almost wish I was that idealistic. Almost.




No. Get rid of the idea of races.

I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but over time it will.





sure lets get rid of mathematics too.

its not fair that 1+1 = 2 and 1+2 = 3.  They should both equal 2 this isnt equality.

GET REAL GENETICS IS A BONAFIED SCIENCE AND TO SAY THAT RACE DOES NOT EXIST IS TO DENY WELL ESTABLISHED BIOLOGY.

by your line of logic the races of canine mammals should also be considered equal to humans and all animals and matter as well.

Do YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE DENYING WELL ESTABLISHED BIOLOGY AND GENETICS?


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OfflineLittleDaddy
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: Shins] * 1
    #19245860 - 12/08/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

LittleDaddy said:
Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
So basically your view is that we should get rid of the word race for it's implication of genetic difference, and hope that everybody feels more connected?

I almost wish I was that idealistic. Almost.




No. Get rid of the idea of races.

I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but over time it will.





sure lets get rid of mathematics too.

its not fair that 1+1 = 2 and 1+2 = 3.  They should both equal 2 this isnt equality.

GET REAL GENETICS IS A BONAFIED SCIENCE AND TO SAY THAT RACE DOES NOT EXIST IS TO DENY WELL ESTABLISHED BIOLOGY.

by your line of logic the races of canine mammals should also be considered equal to humans and all animals and matter as well.

Do YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE DENYING WELL ESTABLISHED BIOLOGY AND GENETICS?




http://wupa.wustl.edu/record_archive/1998/10-15-98/articles/races.html


--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: how many black people are on the shroomery? [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #19245913 - 12/08/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If you believe that go buy a shitzu to defend your life in an attack.

i be over here with my german shepard living in the real world.


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