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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Registered: 06/19/13
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #19228881 - 12/04/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wildernessjunkie said:
I did a PP5 single quart last week. It wasn't full of grain, it just got filled with the leftover grain in the strainer. It turned out good, no problems.

Today I am giving PP5 quarts an honest chance. I just loaded up the PC, and have discovered a problem already. My AA930 can hold 14 qt glass mason jars. But due to the size of the mouth on the PP5 qts, only 9 will fit in the PC.

Maybe the other merits of plastic will become apparent later, but so far Im starting a project a little over %50 efficiency behind the curve.



I went to Walmart today and I compared all of the plastic containers to classic glass quart jars. My pc can hold 7 quarts in glass, the best pp5 container would fit like 3 quarts. Boo! So I bought some quart jars:cool:


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #19228905 - 12/04/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

part of the pp5 secret , is that ya load em loose, and 1/3 full,
this allows for fast hot clean PC, without over cooking,
enabling you to use grass seed and delicate high energy subs.

small clean batches, are lower energy,
less heat, less time, and less contams.

if ya do see a contam, its isolated fast and easy.

since they are smaller, and not over cooked, they dont clump,
so they colonize nicely, no shake fast.

its a diff dynamic than jars.
i love the stuff.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: anne halonium]
    #19228950 - 12/04/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah,  you see a lighter load in the cooker is one of the reasons why times are shorter. Jars are a lot of mass and the huge clumps of grain within are large too.

You'll cook your jars for 90 minutes.  I'd cook a quart container for 45-50.  That plenty makes up for what you think of as being 50% behind the efficiency curve.

Plastic works quick.
Everyone is so used to sterilizing agar for 45 minutes in jars, but I cook it for 25 individuated into agar containers.

I also have a large stock of quart jars, but guess how often they end up being used?
Fewer containers in a cooker becomes "so what" when I still feel like I'm running so few of such short cooker runs.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: Violet]
    #19229011 - 12/04/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

But two cooker runs that are half the time equals the same amount of time. 45 minutes +45 minutes=90minutes. And that's if I can fit half the spawn, and not including warm up and cool down times which are very significant. It takes my pc 15 minutes to warm up and 45 minutes to cool down if I don't take the rocker off. That's an extra hour to pc the same amount of grains. Filling the pc and doing less cycles is more efficient than doing many small cycles. I respect your opinions and your methods, but what works for some does not work for others.


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: Violet]
    #19229017 - 12/04/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

keep in mind,
several smaller cookers, in cycle, will outrun one giant one.
this opens up new avenues for cooking possibilities.

enable your grow, dont limit it.


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: anne halonium]
    #19229040 - 12/04/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

anne halonium said:
keep in mind,
several smaller cookers, in cycle, will outrun one giant one.
this opens up new avenues for cooking possibilities.

enable your grow, dont limit it.



And cost a ton! My presto 16 quart pc from Walmart cost me $70! I don't have the money to buy several of those and cycle them! I mean yeah, of course having more pressure cookers will get shit done faster than having one, but the cost of that would not be worth the time I would save by a long shot.


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19229097 - 12/04/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

cool.
then it shouldnt be much of an issue for ya in the end.

those who need hundreds of containers fast, might need 2 cookers.


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19229110 - 12/04/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Its hard to convert from bulk
When we only had 16 and 23 quarts cookers
to tell us that the future is not in larger cookers,
but in multiple smaller cookers.

Its a hard pill to swallow
no matter what you coat it with.
Is it really more cost effective
to run a pair of canning cooker versus a single?



Quote:

Sgt. Pepper said:
of course having more pressure cookers will get shit done faster than having one



QFT.

Having more than one of most things will certainly aid in completion.  Sharks for example.....Nevermind totally OT....

There is efficiency in having one large PC versus a pair of smaller ones....  As Sgt. pointed out...there is nothing better than a PC that can fit a quart jar upright.  Yes, having 2 cookers would certainly save time, but I hate to say that in this comparison size is irrelevant.  Yes, 2 smaller = one larger for this example, but the cost of using 2 burners is more than one.  In the end you may break even.


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: anne halonium]
    #19229121 - 12/04/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

anne halonium said:
cool.
then it shouldnt be much of an issue for ya in the end.

those who need hundreds of containers fast, might need 2 cookers.



Naw, I'm only working in the double digits for now :wink: I'm a very calculating person and I like to see all angles of something before I do it, and frankly pp5 just doesn't seem as efficient as good old jars for my circumstances. For you it might be great, but I don't love the idea. Maybe I'll try it one day but for now I'll stick with good old glass.


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Registered: 05/07/13
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19229137 - 12/04/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

difference is in cycling, limited down time,
advantage, with PP5 , is in the burn time being shorter.

its a scale-able versatility factor.

for that matter, id rather have one no seal AA, than 3 seal cookers, any size...seal blowout factor over hundreds of containers, and time, would negate 2 of em.

as said, if your only doing 50 or so, who cares, use a micro cooker.
ya wanna burn thru hundreds, get more cookers.

big or small PP5 has a fast cook advantage.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19229141 - 12/04/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Pepper, you're missing that you can fit more than Half of the grain in a cooker run of Half the time.
16 pint containers, or 8 quart containers, gets more grain cooked in 90min at pressure than 7 quart jars.
The cooker runs much more steadily too, instead of taking much longer to sink-in the heat at a higher setting when containing several pounds of glass.

You seemed so sure, yet there's actually no way you can successfully pitch that using glass is more efficient than plastic.
Simple math with specific heat factoring shows that plastic wins all-around.

Your point about buying effective volume only goes so far as effective volume, and even in that it's even at best.
The reasons to pick one or the other aren't just how much gets done in time at pressure when it can be the same either way.
The main point is that you cannot do an effective complete grow with quart jars alone like you can containers, and plastic ensures safety and longevity with the advantages of easy storage, multiple uses, discretion, lightness, etc etc.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Edited by Violet (12/04/13 10:05 PM)


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: Violet]
    #19229149 - 12/04/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

some stuff violet, they just have to see.
ill be honest, we played with plastic for a while in various ways,
before we really understood the many advantages.

once ya realize how easy the stuff cooks.........
and handling.
its like OMG i shoulda had this shit years ago.


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:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (12/04/13 10:04 PM)


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: Violet]
    #19229165 - 12/04/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Pepper, you're missing that you can fit more than Half of the grain in a cooker run of Half the time.
16 pint containers, or 8 quart containers, gets more grain cooked in 90min at pressure than 7 quart jars.
The cooker runs much more steadily too, instead of taking much longer to sink-in the heat at a higher setting when containing several pounds of glass.

You seemed so sure, yet there's actually no way you can successfully pitch that using glass is more efficient than plastic.
Simple math with specific heat factoring shows that plastic wins all-around.

Your point about buying effective volume only goes so far as effective volume, and even in that it's even at best.
The reasons to pick one or the other aren't just how much gets done in time at pressure when it can be the same either way.
The main point is that you cannot do an effective complete grow with jars alone like you can containers, and plastic ensures safety and longevity with the advantages of easy storage, multiple uses, discretion, lightness, etc etc.



Fair enough, I guess I might just have to try it. I was planning on moving away from cubes for the most part and switching to pan cyans and sclerotia, but I may just have a couple of pp5 containers full of cube spawn in the near future. I respect you and your tek and I really shouldn't criticize before having tried it. To be honest, before you explained to me how ge happens in a pp5 container I tried drilling a hole in the lid of a few that I bought, but I broke the lids:facepalm3: so maybe I'm just a little butthurt about that. Haha.


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OfflineForgottenFreshness
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19229360 - 12/04/13 10:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Expensiveness is a moot point for anyone with amazon prime. You can buy 30 ziplock twist n lock pint jars for $25. Free 2 day shipping. Around here Mason jars cost 20-25 bucks for 12 whatever the size.

The main reason I decided to go with pp5 plastic is shorter pc time. Cutting down the pc time to 45-60 min will save money and make multiple runs a day easier to accomplish.


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InvisibleLungCheeseFungus
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: ForgottenFreshness]
    #19229838 - 12/05/13 01:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, I always see a dozen glass quarts for around 11 dollars locally.

I had some OI in glass quarts that were a couple months old, due to being too wet. When I couldn't wait for G2G any longer, I had to break them up. That was a lot like work! Think of golf balls and RGS packed into overfilled glass quarts. So eventually I quit beating it on the rug and tried the thick and padded carpet. After a while I damn near lost some fingers on the thing when it broke around the neck. Next up, fruiting in a vacuum cleaner. Thankfully, I had a death grip around the lid ring only. My partner somehow even managed to pop off a couple rings. The hell!

But to be fair, you can (well, I can) crack a PP5 too. Have to be pretty aggressive, but it can be done. Same deal with the lids. If you all but try to break one or pop one off, you can. I use mostly PP5 now. I hate lid mods, like the pinning chamber the lid makes (does the blue lid help this?), like how fast they cool, like how they stack, like the shorter runs, and love how easy they clean up. To each their own.

Ooh yea, depending on your cooker, you might can stack them up on top of each other. 9 may turn into 18 at a time. Hope that helps. Peace.


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Registered: 01/05/13
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
    #19230218 - 12/05/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sgt. Pepper said:
before you explained to me how ge happens in a pp5 container I tried drilling a hole in the lid of a few that I bought, but I broke the lids:facepalm3: so maybe I'm just a little butthurt about that. Haha.



I use a hot nail for my PP5 GE port.  I figured that a drill would lead to cracking, where the melting actually reinforces itself.  I have yet to have a single lid crack. 

After melting a small hole in the lid, I then stuff with polyfill THEN I singe both ends (With a lighter) so that they are solid plastic nubs on either side, but still allow for GE through the hole.  They are not melted to the lid, just shrunk up.  This modification that I have done allows for us to not worry about how tight the lid is, and what COULD creep in around the threads of the lid.  It also allows for evaporation of the condensation.  I am sure that the hole created is a weak point, but it is certainly stronger than a drilled hole.

Someone here made a comment about how they wished they had pp5 years ago.  I can assure all of us that PP5 is not a new thing.  Users about these forums have been using them for years. 
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/13479170

Here a great "blast from the past".  Barakanaten had all his lids made before most of us ever used a single plastic cup.  Should we call plastic cups with ge ports "B-tek"?

I understand that the argument is that "there is no need for a ge port".  I will not disagree.  I can see that loosening a lid slightly CAN allow for gas exchange.  A GE port does the same thing better, and I don't mind spending 2 extra minutes to make something slightly better.


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19230335 - 12/05/13 08:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Whippy said:
Barakanaten had all his lids made before most of us ever used a single plastic cup.





im my case, we had polycarbonate and PP5 labware,
clear back in the early 80s.

mid 90s we started using it regularly,
as price and availability changed, and new sizes came available.

about 2003-2004, we essentially discontinued glass.

i dont think any one is "inventing" PP5 use.
as it pre dates us all, and has been in labs for decades.

ive seen it used in limited ways for some time on forums.
others have tried it.

what IS new, is v tek is updated oss and oeric basics, using fert RGS, plastics, and in some cases , blue lights, and bottom watering in combo.
oss and oeric, didnt have the equipment choices, we do today.

i always find it amazing,
trolls and noobs claim this tek is untested.
its based on one of the original teks , and solid lab work.

my group simply has extensive long term experience with the stuff,
we endorse it.


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:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (12/05/13 09:55 AM)


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: anne halonium]
    #19233829 - 12/05/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I took my plastic out of the PC today and did some G2G transfers. Here's my findings so far:

Pro's:

-The grain transfers were especially easy. Im not saying that grain transfers are hard with glass jars mind you. But the general shape of the PP5 containers made the transfers smoother than normal. And that last bit of grain for that very last transfer in a glass jar, the one that hangs up on the shoulder of the jar...not an issue, it all just slides right out.

-Shaking the grain was very easy on my transfer jar. No banging. No phone book/tire/roll of duct tape. A couple of taps on the palm of my hand, and it was all loose.

Con's:

-Some of the bottoms of my containers warped. They still held up. But the bottoms on a few of them are not flat anymore. Surprisingly it was only the jars sitting on the top trivet that this happened to. And it was only about 3 of them.

-These containers dont stack well. You would think that due to their design, this would be a non issue. Historically I stack my glass 2-3 high while colonizing. Ive got these 3 high now, and I will be moving them into individual boxes. Overall they are "wobbly" when stacked. Nothing would probably tip them over, but Im not going to chance it.

-Im still not happy with the idea of only fitting 9 of these things in my PC. My schedule is tight, and I usually have to cook grain one day, PC the next, and then wait to do G2G the day after that. Its a 3 day process every time. And when I fire up the flow hood, I would rather inoculate 14 jars than 9.



I havent written plastic off yet. I see some of its merit. But Im still not sold on the idea, and Im not sure if its right for me.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #19234165 - 12/05/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds like you got some funny off-brand containers.
I have to be mindful when carrying a stack of them around, but the ziplocs usually sit stacked 3 to 7 tall on my shelf.
Also I have never gotten a warped container without having run out of water during the cook.  In all of my many I've only had a handful of warped containers and they were all due to accidentally running out of water... I've learned my lesson now.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: What's the deal with pp5? [Re: Violet]
    #19234831 - 12/06/13 01:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They are zip-loc brand. And there was water left in the bottom of the PC.

:dumbass: Come on now...Ive done this a few times before.


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