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Offlinesof4r0ckeRs1984
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: skatealex2]
    #19232948 - 12/05/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

skatealex2 said:
Have you ever spoke to anyone that gave you a rational explanation as to why they believe in religion or are religious?


I have heard some level headed ideas but honestly to date I can't say it stands up to deep scrutiny.  I understand some concepts for believe in a higher power - one being the complexity and odds of a world coming together that works like it does but there are also a lot of ways to view that and say that is how evolution works.

I've also heard the idea that something doesn't come from nothing so what started the world?

On the other hand in my experiences of religious services I can't honestly I've seen it go much farther than the way people believe in it that causes an effect on them.  I'm more agnostic overall personally, but religion hasn't sold me too much, even more so the mainstream American religions.   

Also when any religion hates on groups of people like gay and lesbians they lose me right there and I lose respect for people who follow that part of religion.  The logic behind that makes no sense-  If God created people in his image as religions say then surely it shouldn't discriminate based on your sexuality.  I never saw in the bible where it said God loves everyone except for gay, bi and lesbian people. :hypnotic:

Also why do people pray to Jesus over God, if God is the creator isn't he who people would be praying to?  :confused:

:minifo:  :et:






You're just too much into your own ideas to really accept free rational thinking about the worth of religion.


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Offlinedontknow
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: skatealex2] * 1
    #19233019 - 12/05/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

skatealex2 said:
one being the complexity and odds of a world coming together that works like it does

I've also heard the idea that something doesn't come from nothing so what started the world?



These are two of the main reasons why I can't dismiss God. Also being raised in a very Christian environment in all aspects of my life until 18 probably has something to do with it.
Quote:

skatealex2 said:
I never saw in the bible where it said God loves everyone except for gay, bi and lesbian people. :hypnotic:



That's because it doesn't say that. It condemns homosexuality as a sin, it doesn't say to hate homosexuals. It's about the act not the person.

Quote:

skatealex2 said:
Also why do people pray to Jesus over God, if God is the creator isn't he who people would be praying to?  :confused:



Jesus and God are one in the same. Praying to one is praying to the other. Also, it goes both ways, often times it's start "Dear God/Lord" end "in your Son's Holy name I pray ,Amen" So people don't always specifically pray to Jesus, not sure where you got that from.

The Trinity can be a confusing thing, I think this makes it easier to understand "If we were to use math, it would not be, 1+1+1=3. It would be 1x1x1=1. God is a triune God." from http://www.everystudent.com/forum/trinity.html


Edited by dontknow (12/05/13 05:54 PM)


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Offlineskatealex2
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
    #19233035 - 12/05/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sof4r0ckeRs1984 said:

You're just too much into your own ideas to really accept free rational thinking about the worth of religion.




I never said religions not worth anything.  A big part of society seems to be effected by religion.  I'm sure some of it is positive too.  I'm not 'anti everything to do with religion', doesn't mean I'm very into religion either.    I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lower crime rate amongst some religious people versus otherwise.


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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: skatealex2]
    #19233124 - 12/05/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

People see what they want to see. Some see chance and coincidence - others see providence.

Logic or "rational reasons" are subsequent to belief. Belief underlies everything in the metaphysical universe.

Ignore my disjointed blathering.

:datass:


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: JesusIsLord] * 1
    #19233158 - 12/05/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JesusIsLord said:
Ignore my disjointed blathering.




Always have, always will.


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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19233161 - 12/05/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

JesusIsLord said:
Ignore my disjointed blathering.




Always have, always will.



You stay classy :taco:


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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Offlinesof4r0ckeRs1984
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #19233222 - 12/05/13 06:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

skatealex2 said:
Quote:

sof4r0ckeRs1984 said:

You're just too much into your own ideas to really accept free rational thinking about the worth of religion.




I never said religions not worth anything.  A big part of society seems to be effected by religion.  I'm sure some of it is positive too.  I'm not 'anti everything to do with religion', doesn't mean I'm very into religion either.    I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lower crime rate amongst some religious people versus otherwise.




You disproved my point and gave some answers to yourself. Obviously these aren't new to you so you should have gained reassurance instead of new knowledge.[


quote]JesusIsLord said:
People see what they want to see. Some see chance and coincidence - others see providence.

Logic or "rational reasons" are subsequent to belief. Belief underlies everything in the metaphysical universe.

Ignore my disjointed blathering.

:datass:



like :thumbup:


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OfflineMisterSandman
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: dontknow]
    #19233266 - 12/05/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dontknow said:
Quote:

skatealex2 said:
one being the complexity and odds of a world coming together that works like it does

I've also heard the idea that something doesn't come from nothing so what started the world?



These are two of the main reasons why I can't dismiss God. Also being raised in a very Christian environment in all aspects of my life until 18 probably has something to do with it.

In an ever expanding, infinite universe the odds are actually very good that a complex worlds like ours would come together. There are probably many more out there.

I don't think it's as simple as something coming from nothing.


Quote:

skatealex2 said:
I never saw in the bible where it said God loves everyone except for gay, bi and lesbian people. :hypnotic:



That's because it doesn't say that. It condemns homosexuality as a sin, it doesn't say to hate homosexuals. It's about the act not the person.

Do you really think the all knowing, creator of the universe would really give a shit who you have sex with :uhno: seems like something that came from the mind of a human being.






--------------------


Edited by MisterSandman (12/05/13 06:43 PM)


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Offlinehardcorekid83
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: skatealex2]
    #19233281 - 12/05/13 06:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

where are you guys getting that the op is cramming his beliefs or whatever down peoples throats or that he is to into himself to view rational thinking about religion? it seems to me he would like to have a rational discussion with out people getting there panties all bunched up about religion. i love these kinds of discussions because honestly, when i think with my "rational mind" about God, I'm not so sure that i believe. its not my mind that believes, its my heart. i choose to believe that there is a god. something pure, perfect, that is all good and just. i see evil all over this world, everywhere i look i see it. also as a recovering heroin addict, looking back, the only way i can describe being strung out is being possessed by something evil. it made me a fuckin zombie of a human being that would steel from my dead grandmother. it made me do things i would never ever do. so if i can see the evil that the bible warns me to look for than i think it must be rational to think that the god the bible talks about is real also. i don't believe because i think i am going to get into heaven if i do. i don't believe everyone goes to heaven. as far as praying to God through jesus, i don't believe in the trinity. i don't believe god and jesus are one in the same. jesus says repeatedly that i am not my father. god also says that jesus is his only begotten son. you pray to god through jesus because jesus acts as a filter. it was explained to me in more detail but it was a little complicated and i can't remember, i just remember thinking it made a lot of sense.

and then there is dmt…… :smile:


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: hardcorekid83]
    #19233302 - 12/05/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Religious people live longer and healthier lives.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: Futuresight]
    #19233380 - 12/05/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Futuresight said:
Organized religion = NO.

Hope/Spirituality = YES.

But doing what feels good is still my favorite answer. Just ponder, no one can give any real answers, just ways to cope with the unknown. :tinfoil:




First of all, hope has nothing to do with a higher power.

Second, you describing it as the unknown is retarded, burden of proof and all. I suppose we should keep an open mind about werewolves too.


--------------------


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InvisibleMagicman69
All About the Benjamins
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #19233411 - 12/05/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Religion is based on faith not rational reasoning.


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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: Magicman69]
    #19233419 - 12/05/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magicman69 said:
Religion is based on faith not rational reasoning.



what is rational reasoning based on? premises?


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: Magicman69] * 1
    #19233421 - 12/05/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magicman69 said:
Religion is based on faith not rational reasoning.




Which is the problem.


--------------------


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OfflineKing Klick
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #19233427 - 12/05/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Heres my personal rationale for how the universe came to be. Before the big bang time didn't exist. So if time didn't exist then the big bang started before nothing. So, enjoy a head fuck, I don't understand it either.


--------------------
Your god is dead, and I killed him.

When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul



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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: King Klick]
    #19233446 - 12/05/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

so, something came from nothing?

seems legit :derp:


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
    #19233469 - 12/05/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sof4r0ckeRs1984 said:
Quote:

skatealex2 said:
Quote:

sof4r0ckeRs1984 said:

You're just too much into your own ideas to really accept free rational thinking about the worth of religion.




I never said religions not worth anything.  A big part of society seems to be effected by religion.  I'm sure some of it is positive too.  I'm not 'anti everything to do with religion', doesn't mean I'm very into religion either.    I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lower crime rate amongst some religious people versus otherwise.




You disproved my point and gave some answers to yourself. Obviously these aren't new to you so you should have gained reassurance instead of new knowledge.[


quote]JesusIsLord said:
People see what they want to see. Some see chance and coincidence - others see providence.

Logic or "rational reasons" are subsequent to belief. Belief underlies everything in the metaphysical universe.

Ignore my disjointed blathering.

:datass:



like :thumbup:



:raisemyglass:


--------------------


And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.


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OfflineKing Klick
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #19233472 - 12/05/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JesusIsLord said:
so, something came from nothing?

seems legit :derp:



Nope, nothing came from something.


--------------------
Your god is dead, and I killed him.

When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul



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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #19233475 - 12/05/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JesusIsLord said:
People see what they want to see. Some see chance and coincidence - others see providence.

Logic or "rational reasons" are subsequent to belief. Belief underlies everything in the metaphysical universe.

Ignore my disjointed blathering.

:datass:



that's true say dog.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rational reasons to be religious....? [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #19233507 - 12/05/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Rationale is hardly subject to belief.

There are laws about the universe which we know to be constant and unwavering.

When the moon decides to do a loop d loop then maybe I'll start reconsidering the fundamentals of reality.


--------------------


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