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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19224745 - 12/03/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sound a lot like a wu wei story.


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Invisibler72rock
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cez]
    #19228897 - 12/04/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I tend to agree. Judging from your signature, I see you know of Shunryu Suzuki. He tended to steer people away from this idea of "enlightenment" and focused on just practicing.

Quote:

There are, strictly speaking, no enlightened people, there is only enlightened activity. - Shunryu Suzuki




--------------------
Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses


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Invisiblecez
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: r72rock]
    #19229053 - 12/04/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup:


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InvisibleVaipen
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19230517 - 12/05/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Agreed.  Same with following your dreams.  If you make your dreams a reality, then will reality be your dreams?

People who say "I am one with the universe".  If they believed that they'd say "The universe is universe with the universe".




I do not think you can 'pursue' these things. For some it comes sooner, some get it later, some never but it is a process. It comes under a false name, it arises out of experiencing life. It grows out of gaining years and experience and the changing of perspectives.

And then when it happens, you never realized you were there and you still have doubts about anything you feel or dream or study. And the enlightenment is that elusive moment when you realize that whatever you think enlightenment was, is just an enhanced perception or understanding and that this by itself has little meaning. It is that moment when you realize that you are no different from anybody else and that you seek answers, still, after all that time. And though you know you have reached some point of a heightened sense of how the world works and you with it, it is transitory.

I don't believe in pursuing anything. Pursuit of enlightenment is a hunt for something that cannot be captured. It is something that comes to you and that you then accept, nervously as you realize it will always be there, you let it slip from the mind.

Reality is a dream, I am the universe, these things have no profound meaning without understanding of their deepest resonances within yourself.

In so that when you look upon a flower you can connect, in that moment, the existence of that flower to the birth of the universe, that when you look at a bird's  flight, you see the reflection of your own thoughts along its vector.

There comes this eldritch flow of wonder now and then when the interrelationship between you and nature becomes transparent and a vista of possibilities opens up in your mind. And...you laugh. There is joy. You find it incredibly funny. And that it has no sense to it, or meaning and yet, there is something there that streaks over the sky of your mind and it captures you ever so long as you can hold on to the feeling.

So, how to come to these things then. If you understand it, you can say that it finds you as you find it. If it is yet out of reach, this confusing double talk makes no sense. But the journey to it is fantastic.

That is how I come to it and how I lose it at the same time.


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OfflineSse
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cbub]
    #19231500 - 12/05/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



Forget about 'Enlightenment' - Satsang with Mooji

"if you give up all your notions, all your effort, to try to get somewhere, just drop it, right here and now, because you have the power to do it, just drop it"

"although you have to do something to see that, actually you have to do nothing to be that"

"when the mind is in complete rest, meaning that it is not carrying any intention, any notion, that there is something to be attained in order to be something; it's spontaneously is one with self, it is self itself."

"drop the notion that something stops you from being this. That's only a notion arising in this... what is this, and who is there outside of this to know it?"

"in this that we are, it does not even say, I am this"

"because we engage with some construction about what this must be. And then looking at your mind and your conditioning you feel unworthy, you identify with that, which gives a sense that you are less then, because as long as there is a search, there is a sense that something is missing; therefore this is why their searching"


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (12/05/13 02:52 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Sse]
    #19231526 - 12/05/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

give up all your notion, all your effort, to try to get somewhere,

But how will I get my groceries?  Are you going to deliver them?:laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSse
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
    #19231531 - 12/05/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

context my friend :p


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Sse]
    #19231561 - 12/05/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

oh


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSse
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
    #19231573 - 12/05/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I edited the title in next to the first sentence so now it should make a little moe sense :hehehe:
hopefully there isn't someone out there trying to drop all effort, they'd be trapped in their thought patterns endlessly.. well I guess they would die pretty soon after adopting that philosophy hehe

In order to swim one takes off all one's
clothes-in order to aspire to the truth one
must undress in a far more inward sense,
divest oneself of all one's inward clothes, of
thoughts, conceptions, selfishness, etc., before
one is sufficiently naked.


-Soren Kierkegaard


Edited by Sse (12/05/13 03:10 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
    #19233880 - 12/05/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
give up all your notion, all your effort, to try to get somewhere,

But how will I get my groceries?  Are you going to deliver them?:laugh:




Senior Meals on Wheels


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19233974 - 12/05/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

this idea of enlightenment through acknowledging there is no enlightenment, is sorta like what i was gonna post... prayer as contemplation rather then "innate messages to God, straight across the vast universe into his mailbox".

people "pray" to contemplate the inevitable or the reality of a situation they feel they cannot face.

it's not like most people are striving to really get a message to God, and to get God to help them... it's more of a tangible thing then that... it's just someone centering themselves enough so they can deal with something that is troubling or difficult for them.

same with enlightenment. everyone can be enlightened about many things, although they never become truly enlightened about the universe or whatever... it's all just open lights on sources of information that one is devoid off before it's contemplation and revelation to them.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19234371 - 12/05/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

nice post:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
    #19234435 - 12/05/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thank ye, Icelandether of the North Winds.

this thread was right in tune with what i was going to post something of; in the way that we pray for solace.

i think all these "elements" of religion and ritual come from a place similar to this... like lightning cracking in the face of sudden and insurmountable death; it chokes the human into an ever fervent display of witless abandon.

we find ourselves at the cornerstone of faith and wanting to be one with the great powers that be; cause they appear to be what causes us pain; and to please them we devote ourselves under service to these powers.

now it's the threat of being beheaded or burned at the stake or in common society being shelved away with the rest of the seekless nothingness; so you have to appear to "strive" to "want more" so one doesn't get proclaimed useless and surrendered to the "gods".


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19234767 - 12/06/13 01:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that all plays into this even if there is even more going on. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
    #19234788 - 12/06/13 01:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

well, it's all a big grotesque picture or a subtly inducing siren call of death. depends on how you catch that gleam in your eye. you see the beauty in it or not; regardless, it's there encasing your every move.

i'd think of all the platitudes and fables of religion, one think stands out... you're going to die. :lol:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19234897 - 12/06/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

And the hardest thing to grokk, especially when you are in your prime.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
    #19234937 - 12/06/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

kinda takes the meaning out of it all, don't it.  :cookiemonster: "congrats, you accomplished something! it'll live on forever (in memorium) until your generation has past! then you'll be long forgotten in the sands of time! work for humanity we need your body for future generations!"

might as well just burn bodies for fuel; can... can we do that?


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Sse]
    #19235233 - 12/06/13 05:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Live satsang with Mooji this Sunday @ 7AM PST. :headbang:


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OfflineThecrimson
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19235279 - 12/06/13 06:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
this idea of enlightenment through acknowledging there is no enlightenment, is sorta like what i was gonna post... prayer as contemplation rather then "innate messages to God, straight across the vast universe into his mailbox".

people "pray" to contemplate the inevitable or the reality of a situation they feel they cannot face.

it's not like most people are striving to really get a message to God, and to get God to help them... it's more of a tangible thing then that... it's just someone centering themselves enough so they can deal with something that is troubling or difficult for them.

same with enlightenment. everyone can be enlightened about many things, although they never become truly enlightened about the universe or whatever... it's all just open lights on sources of information that one is devoid off before it's contemplation and revelation to them.




Eh, don't entirely agree. People may pray to focus on a goal and settle themselves like you say. But when they pray they still have notions and ideas, they are still focusing on a certain thought. Enlightenment is the lack of all of those. Enlightenment is clarity through lack of preconceived notions.


Edited by Thecrimson (12/06/13 06:05 AM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson]
    #19235341 - 12/06/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

nah... not everyone does that. in it's purest form, prayer is devoid of thoughts, and is only on "the lord" (or however you call, which denomination one my be in)

and to be only "thinking of the lord", you'd have to be thinking pure thoughts... not selfish ones.


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