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OfflineGeneric
Registered: 11/12/13
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Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags?
    #19231479 - 12/05/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

In a 21-quart pressure cooker, I would use mason jars to pasteurize substrate, but that would pasteurize only a small amount of substrate, so I'm wondering about bags.

Filter patch bags seem to be great for spawn, but strictly for pasteurizing substrate (Coir Vermiculite Gypsum), what are the advantages of filter patch bags compared to oven bags?

My only worry would be having oven bags explode in the pressure cooker or rip/tear after.  The filter patch bags don't have the problem of ballooning too much and popping.  As long as the oven bag doesn't seal/get stuck closed in the pressure cooker they should be fine, right?

Are there common oven bags that are too weak at the seams that should be avoided?  any common brands or sizes that work great?

It seems like filter patch bags are more commonly used, but it seems unnecessary and expensive to get a bunch shipped... any input?  any advice on technique or links of people using oven bags?


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Generic]
    #19231512 - 12/05/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineGeneric
Registered: 11/12/13
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: cronicr]
    #19231580 - 12/05/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Definitely.  I've already got that same thermometer probe thanks to him.  I think that 6 quart jars in the pressure cooker is a very small amount, and when he uses bags to pasteurize, he uses filter patch bags.

Frank says...
Quote:

One advantage of using filter patch bags is that you will have filtered air exchange during the cooling of the substrate. This isn't really a big deal for coir/verm but with substrates like hpoo or additives like coffee grounds, it never hurts to be as safe as possible.




I'm talking about using only Coir Vermiculite and Gypsum.  Would it be good to let the bag of substrate cool in the pressure cooker (maybe with an alcohol-soaked paper towel on the vent) overnight?  Even if taken out in the air, it should probably be fine if spawn is added ASAP it seems.

But I've read a few things about oven bags falling apart on people.  I think keeping the bag from touching the bottom of the PC should keep it from getting too hot.

Is there anything i'm missing or is the only real advantage of filter patch bags that they can cool down with filtered air after pasteurization (and they seem to be stronger plastic)?


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OfflineGeneric
Registered: 11/12/13
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Generic]
    #19240473 - 12/07/13 11:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

is a tyvek sleeve really necessary when pasteurizing substrate in an oven bag?

couldn't people just leave the oven bag open with a thermometer probe in there, let it cool in the somewhat clean PC, then spawn the substrate?


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InvisiblePirateSwazey
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Generic]
    #19240643 - 12/07/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have been using large turkey bags to pasteurize my substrate for awhile.
I use a combination of Frank and Fahster's pasteurization methods.

Here's what I do:

•Start with Reynold's turkey oven bags
•Put some jar rings on the bottom of your PC
•Put the loaded substrate bag in the PC (yes, obvious)
•Fill up PC with water till the bag starts to float
•Throw the rack that usually goes on the bottom on top of the bag
•Put a bowl full of water on top of the rack to weigh down the sub
•Stick probe in there and put the lid on
•Heat on medium until temp raises 10° as Frank suggested
•Cut heat off and start timer for 60 minutes when temp reaches 140°

Make sure to leave the top of the bag outside the PC so water doesn't get in your substrate.

Faht recommended to use 2 bags to keep the bag from melting, but seeing as I've cooked a turkey for hours at 350° in these bags, I never thought about using an extra one.

I also poke holes in the bag when I let it cool overnight, as Fahtster recommended.

Good luck:cookiemonster:


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Generic]
    #19240850 - 12/07/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Generic said:
is a tyvek sleeve really necessary when pasteurizing substrate in an oven bag?





No, tyvek sleeves are placed in the bags that are getting sterilized in the PC :thumbup:

If you have a spare filter patch bag, use it. It's great. If not, oven bags also do in a pinch. I just find them too flimsy.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
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OfflineGeneric
Registered: 11/12/13
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: PirateSwazey]
    #19240959 - 12/07/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Great, thanks to you both, perfect input.

All I'm wondering now is about how to best cool the substrate to room temperature afterwards...

Quote:

fahtster said:Then I take a clean knife and poke small holes all over the bag about every two inches to let the substrate  breathe while it cools... if you don't do this, you'll probably end up with bacteria infestation.. I've had it happen.

Then I just lay them on a cookie sheet to cool with the bag openings loosely folded over like so for about four to six hours.. I mix the bag up every-once-in-awhile so that the center doesn't stay too warm..




I don't really understand why he pokes holes in the bag and lets it sit out in the open air, that seems dirty.  Is that because oxygen is good for the pasteurized substrate? or is it to cool more quickly?

Would it be good to let the substrate cool overnight by leaving it in the pressure cooker with no sitting water after all is off (possibly with an alcohol-soaked paper towel covering the valve)?

I'm thinking it sounds good to be put in a clean tote like FrankHorrigan does.  Does the amount of air the substrate is exposed to matter?


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Generic]
    #19240965 - 12/07/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That is outdated, bad info. I doubt faht would still stand by that quote you pulled :shrug:

Bacterial contams on bulk are almost always caused by poor pasteurization (the heating part) and/or bad grain spawn.

My write up cronic linked for you has everything you need to know.

When the time is up, remove the bag from the water and place it in a box to cool. Don't poke holes or mess with anything. And it doesn't have to be a special box, I just use an old cardboard box.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19240996 - 12/07/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Oven bags are porous and will over-saturate your substrate. Also, bulk should never be PC'd.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineGeneric
Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 176
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 1 day, 20 hours
Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19241113 - 12/07/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
When the time is up, remove the bag from the water and place it in a box to cool. Don't poke holes or mess with anything. And it doesn't have to be a special box, I just use an old cardboard box.




sounds great :thumbup:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Oven bags are porous and will over-saturate your substrate. Also, bulk should never be PC'd.




...but filter patch bags are even more porous, right? It doesnt seem to make much of a difference, am I right?
Also... Of course bulk substrate should never be PC'd (sterilized), but it is good to use a PC as a big ass pot that never becomes pressurized when pasteurizing

Thank you all


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Generic]
    #19241133 - 12/07/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No, filter patch bags are not porous except for the filter patch.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineGeneric
Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 176
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 1 day, 20 hours
Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19242428 - 12/07/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
No, filter patch bags are not porous except for the filter patch.



but my point is that the filter patch makes it more porous than a slightly-porous oven bag.  or is it that the filter patch bag is folded so that the filter is effectively sealed... wouldn't that cause pressure to buildup and it pop?



when using a filter patch bag to pasteurize, people generally bring the substrate to field capacity, seal the bag or clamp it closed, but the filter should be available to vent, right?

I realized that a pack of 2 turkey bags at fred meyer is $2... so they cost more than filter patch bags (are there 12- or 20-packs?).
Because they're nearly the same price, I think I'll go with filter patch bags.

Now I've got 3 two-year-old filter patch bags from an old trade.  It's not unwise to re-use the filter patch bags for pasteurization, right?  How many pasteurizations might they last? 
I'm happy with mason jars for spawn for now because they're re-usable and work well with G2G.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Generic]
    #19242436 - 12/07/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Slow down there, you're thinking too much into this.

The filter is irrelevant. The bags are just nice to pasteurize in.

You don't need to filter the air around your pasteurized substrate.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19242482 - 12/07/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Gallon ziplock freezer bags work well for me. I split 1 brick and 2 qt verm between 3 bags and follow Franks pasteurization tek :smile:


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OfflineGeneric
Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 176
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 1 day, 20 hours
Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Stromrider]
    #19242837 - 12/07/13 10:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:
Gallon ziplock freezer bags work well for me. I split 1 brick and 2 qt verm between 3 bags and follow Franks pasteurization tek :smile:





Do you seal those freezer bags or leave them open to vent?  Do they expand much if sealed?


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Generic]
    #19243695 - 12/08/13 04:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I seal them. I leave a small place open in the middle of one to put the thermometer down in.  They don't expand at all

When the time had elapsed I throw them all in a bath of ice water to cool them rapidly


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Stromrider]
    #19244427 - 12/08/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:
When the time had elapsed I throw them all in a bath of ice water to cool them rapidly




I've corrected a lot of people about this but you, Strom? Breaking my heart :lol:

"Cooling rapidly" just means not letting it sit overnight in the hot water bath. People read way too much into that and ran with it.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19244533 - 12/08/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't do it as a part of the pasteurization process. I do it so I can go ahead and spawn the tub an hour later. I have to get most of my Cultivation chores done on Sunday


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: Stromrider]
    #19244538 - 12/08/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Ah, gotcha :wink:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Going to start pasteurizing in bags. Oven bags vs filter patch bags? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19244551 - 12/08/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hey check your pm's you digger nick! I sent you a message a few days ago


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