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Offlinelines
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Chilvary Enslaves Women
    #19230297 - 12/05/13 08:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The notion that in society men are the protectors of women is based on the sexist notion that men are evil beings who are intent on harming women; it is also based on the sexist notion that women are incapable of managing their own affairs.

It is a strange concept because on the one hand is classifies men as protectors which would imply men are good but the people women would need protecting from would be men and thus the concept also implies men are evil. The concept itself is a paradox.

Another word for protector is guardian. The term guardian is used to describe the responsibility an adult has over a child. Thus in a society where men are deemed the protectors of women the result is is that women are seen as like children. In such a situation women are the wards of men and men have burdens and responsibilities placed on them that are disproportionate and unfair.

Women are not weak. And as a man this does not make me a womans keeper. Women are responsible for their own well being and they are perfectly capable of it.

The truth about women is that most women support patriarchy and that most of them do this because most women are intellectually lazy and want men to figure everything out for them. What matters though is not what the majority of women want, what matters is what is right. Even though the majority of women want patriarchy that does not mean it is right because a patriarchal system is oppressive to both men and women.

Furthermore it does not do women any good for men to be enablers of their intellectual laziness.

I am not saying men should never protect women and I am not saying women should never protect men and I am not saying people of the same geneder should never protect each other. What I am saying is that it is a bad idea for there to be a formalized role in society where men are seen as the protectors of women and women are seen as weak and where this is also based on gender stereotyping. This is called chivalry and chivalry enslaves women and it encourages weakness in them.

In societies based on chivalry men are very destructive towards one another. Chivalry is simply possessiveness in the mask of altruism, it is competition in the mask of altruism. A chivalrous man is a treacherous one who is not a brother to other men.


Edited by lines (12/05/13 08:18 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19230375 - 12/05/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hey, I watch 'Nikita.' :awesomenod:


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Offlineblackstatis
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines] * 1
    #19230385 - 12/05/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think your definition of chivalry may be misunderstood.  its basically kindness/respect for women, not protection.  you gotta think about when this term was made popular and how in the medieval times how soldiers would "rape and pillage"... it was an honor code to not do that.  it was a sense of restraint and understanding that women aren't just things to fuck.

what societies are based on chivalrous men?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines] * 1
    #19230466 - 12/05/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Women have always relied on men for physical protection by woman's choice.  That's pretty natural.  And the fact is that women are physically weak and without the protection of males would be very vulnerable to predation.  The fact that a protective culture makes some of that null and void really doesn't change it. Women know that it is by the grace of chance and their expert maneuvering that men are not as necessary for personal protection at this time in history. That could all change in a moment and I think they instinctively know that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19230726 - 12/05/13 11:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Hey, I watch 'Nikita.' :awesomenod:




haha


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19230788 - 12/05/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Women have always relied on men for physical protection by woman's choice.  That's pretty natural.  And the fact is that women are physically weak and without the protection of males would be very vulnerable to predation.  The fact that a protective culture makes some of that null and void really doesn't change it. Women know that it is by the grace of chance and their expert maneuvering that men are not as necessary for personal protection at this time in history. That could all change in a moment and I think they instinctively know that.



:thumbup:


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Allisterem]
    #19231919 - 12/05/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

when you are not a woman, what makes you talk about them negatively ??

what makes you say a different conscious life inferior and negative ?? else can never be inferior nor negative.. because negative inferiority is out of subjective wills and life, so never objective fact

when women cant possess nor kill men, then judging women is from being liars meaning to suggest true values abuse as a way of being up

in truth, gender divisions do not exist.. truth is free conscious existence out of absolute clarity, while it is known that genders were meant for animals beings that cant be conscious nor free

in truth, objective and subjective freedom is the same thing, right superiority or superior rights

through humanity life, it became clear that women are the superior beings, as women showed caring about a lot of things, and do what they have to do consciously.. when men are still meaning everything as nothing, but to have fun inventing new war games and anything they could pretend creating it

metaphysically, right man, is the conscious that would act in respect to objective values, knowing what it means of being less then anything, because everything is present right, the value of being constant, superiority..to nothing conscious perspective could be 

right woman, is the freedom that would act alone through nothing, knowing the value of being right, the value of not being, positive freedom out of superior ends sources

this shows how in true existence, individuals are of both facts and conscious realizations .. while in the world they are the reverse, which prove how all existence is through evil powerful life

forcing such divisions to be is to mean all in lies

individual, cant mean objective existing value without being right about something alone at the back being a free objective means and wills

also, someone cannot mean being himself right sources, but through being conscious of all else present rights ...

true individual is a human conscious freedom, and not a gender


Edited by absols (12/05/13 04:09 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19232228 - 12/05/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

what society is free of chivalry?


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19235291 - 12/06/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Women have always relied on men for physical protection by woman's choice.  That's pretty natural.  And the fact is that women are physically weak and without the protection of males would be very vulnerable to predation.  The fact that a protective culture makes some of that null and void really doesn't change it. Women know that it is by the grace of chance and their expert maneuvering that men are not as necessary for personal protection at this time in history. That could all change in a moment and I think they instinctively know that.




disagree, brute force is not a factor in the governance of most of society :tongue:


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19235301 - 12/06/13 06:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

generally agree op :thumbup:

i always wonder if the women at my work appreciate being let out of the lifts first. on the one hand it is like 'we recognize as men we are douches & sorry' but on the other it is like 'you are the guests in this place of ours' and also it encourages gender distinctions so idk:shrug2:


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Edited by quinn (12/06/13 06:23 AM)


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19235305 - 12/06/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

one thing i like about hipsters is gender seems more blurred.. (too bad lines has me on nignore :frown:)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19235370 - 12/06/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Women have always relied on men for physical protection by woman's choice.  That's pretty natural.  And the fact is that women are physically weak and without the protection of males would be very vulnerable to predation.  The fact that a protective culture makes some of that null and void really doesn't change it. Women know that it is by the grace of chance and their expert maneuvering that men are not as necessary for personal protection at this time in history. That could all change in a moment and I think they instinctively know that.




disagree, brute force is not a factor in the governance of most of society :tongue:




Then why have police and security guards?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19236536 - 12/06/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

for the exceptions.. people should not expect physical confrontation in most circumstances.. and as op said women could handle it, a small taser'd do the trick :yesnod:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn] * 1
    #19237061 - 12/06/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You're dreaming.  As a martial arts teacher I learned quickly that women don't have the self confidence to defend themselves most of the time. By the time they retrieved the taser from a pocket and realized they really would have to use it, it would be far too late.

Very few people, men or women realize what self defense really entails.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19237138 - 12/06/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lines said:
The notion that in society men are the protectors of women is based on the sexist notion that men are evil beings who are intent on harming women; it is also based on the sexist notion that women are incapable of managing their own affairs.

It is a strange concept because on the one hand is classifies men as protectors which would imply men are good but the people women would need protecting from would be men and thus the concept also implies men are evil. The concept itself is a paradox.

Another word for protector is guardian. The term guardian is used to describe the responsibility an adult has over a child. Thus in a society where men are deemed the protectors of women the result is is that women are seen as like children. In such a situation women are the wards of men and men have burdens and responsibilities placed on them that are disproportionate and unfair.

Women are not weak. And as a man this does not make me a womans keeper. Women are responsible for their own well being and they are perfectly capable of it.

The truth about women is that most women support patriarchy and that most of them do this because most women are intellectually lazy and want men to figure everything out for them. What matters though is not what the majority of women want, what matters is what is right. Even though the majority of women want patriarchy that does not mean it is right because a patriarchal system is oppressive to both men and women.

Furthermore it does not do women any good for men to be enablers of their intellectual laziness.

I am not saying men should never protect women and I am not saying women should never protect men and I am not saying people of the same geneder should never protect each other. What I am saying is that it is a bad idea for there to be a formalized role in society where men are seen as the protectors of women and women are seen as weak and where this is also based on gender stereotyping. This is called chivalry and chivalry enslaves women and it encourages weakness in them.

In societies based on chivalry men are very destructive towards one another. Chivalry is simply possessiveness in the mask of altruism, it is competition in the mask of altruism. A chivalrous man is a treacherous one who is not a brother to other men.




Not following you here.





--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


Edited by Raven Gnosis (12/06/13 03:42 PM)


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19238812 - 12/06/13 10:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

attributing to them inherent physical inferiority and dependance on men is not going to do much for their confidence :shrug2:

ime force is not something that governs most relationships outside of the odd drunkard or thug and they shouldnt be too hard to avoid really


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InvisibleRoger Wilco
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19238842 - 12/06/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlineabsols
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Roger Wilco]
    #19239424 - 12/07/13 02:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

women represents freedom in truth, free existence constant end means ... teaching them to defend themselves would break freedom so the fact in truth, while objectively it would mean giving life to what is never true, like positive identities ends in abusing true existence rights of facts ...

men failed to mean representing freedom rights protections, that would start by supporting and respecting right what is already free before meaning themselves freedom rights existence too .. ladies first as the adage goes..because women are out of everything relatively free first

then men are inherently evil beings what women are only relative to from what they are only themselves out of all
women do things alone for them, where men are planning to take control of everything rights, so do always deformations to nothing they also abuse to get anything from, as if out of nothing they can reach to act free, liars..

I think that would mean how future is to kill men kind and humans kind would be only out of women individuals beings rights

when you enjoy making wars, it is your positive will sense of being, it proves the evil you are who is taking advantage of negative fact, so would reach by existing to be negative sources so it could justify being him the free through objective negative inferiority life of all...

while the fact that it is your positive sense to manage conflicts confrontations, as a positive sense,  say how far you cannot ever care about anyone suffer or being through negative condition, so how far you cant ever be representant of infinite intelligence to free constant objective realities ways, when existence is true, so definitely objectively free


Edited by absols (12/07/13 02:58 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19239630 - 12/07/13 06:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
attributing to them inherent physical inferiority and dependance on men is not going to do much for their confidence :shrug2:

ime force is not something that governs most relationships outside of the odd drunkard or thug and they shouldnt be too hard to avoid really





I'm not concerned about their confidence levels. I have myself to worry about. But you do make my point quite well thanks.

You seem to have little understanding of the male female dynamics.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19239737 - 12/07/13 07:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #19239741 - 12/07/13 07:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's pretty much it. :lol:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19243765 - 12/08/13 06:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You're dreaming.  As a martial arts teacher I learned quickly that women don't have the self confidence to defend themselves most of the time. By the time they retrieved the taser from a pocket and realized they really would have to use it, it would be far too late.

Very few people, men or women realize what self defense really entails.



What martial art do you teach? All the women in my jiu jitsu class can take a 200lb man, throw him to the ground, and force feed him dirt all afternoon.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Heffy]
    #19243792 - 12/08/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm retired many years but I taught Non-Classical Wing Chun in Seattle. http://www.newkungfu.com/#!

And I don't believe one bit of what you are saying. In a class with orchestrated exercises that is almost always true. On the street most women involved in martial arts won't pull it off. They will be eaten alive if there assailant is large and aggressive.  Actually this is true of an awful lot of male practitioners of martial arts also. :lol: A lot of people who want to learn martial arts are not really the fighter type and never actually learn how. That's been my experience in a fairly long time in several martial arts over quite a few years.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (12/08/13 06:47 AM)


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Heffy]
    #19243811 - 12/08/13 07:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Whether or not the style practices live sparring makes all the difference.
A female boxer/kickboxer who spars tough opponents regularly, can easily defeat an untrained male opponent.
A female grappler who spars tough opponents regularly will also, easily defeat an untrained male opponent.
One of the Jiu Jitsu instructors we know had a rapist attack his daughter recently. She choked him unconscious, and broke both his arms.
I don't think you have much experience with dedicated female students, in styles where frequent sparring with larger training partners of other genders is encouraged.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Heffy]
    #19243826 - 12/08/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've had a lot of experience with women in the styles I know. The style I posted did a lot of full contact sparring when I was involved. Women generally did not fare well and we are talking generally here and not about the very occasional exception.  I've been in these debates before.  Martial artists seem to often think that if you don't have Martial arts experience you can't fight.  A dedicated street fighter will often prove them wrong. So we can agree to disagree on this one.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19244201 - 12/08/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A friend of mine took karate classes as a kid. He accidentally punched a lady in her breast and her husband who was also in the class took exception. He was so embarrassed he never went back.

Makes me remember some fighting advice he gave us which he apparently got from an older friend. "Catch the baseball bat between your ribs and arm". Me and a buddy had just got through smoking a bowl and we couldn't quit laughing. We asked for a demonstration but he refused.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19244945 - 12/08/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lines said:
The notion that in society men are the protectors of women is based on the sexist notion that men are evil beings who are intent on harming women; it is also based on the sexist notion that women are incapable of managing their own affairs.

It is a strange concept because on the one hand is classifies men as protectors which would imply men are good but the people women would need protecting from would be men and thus the concept also implies men are evil. The concept itself is a paradox.

Another word for protector is guardian. The term guardian is used to describe the responsibility an adult has over a child. Thus in a society where men are deemed the protectors of women the result is is that women are seen as like children. In such a situation women are the wards of men and men have burdens and responsibilities placed on them that are disproportionate and unfair.

Women are not weak. And as a man this does not make me a womans keeper. Women are responsible for their own well being and they are perfectly capable of it.

The truth about women is that most women support patriarchy and that most of them do this because most women are intellectually lazy and want men to figure everything out for them. What matters though is not what the majority of women want, what matters is what is right. Even though the majority of women want patriarchy that does not mean it is right because a patriarchal system is oppressive to both men and women.

Furthermore it does not do women any good for men to be enablers of their intellectual laziness.

I am not saying men should never protect women and I am not saying women should never protect men and I am not saying people of the same geneder should never protect each other. What I am saying is that it is a bad idea for there to be a formalized role in society where men are seen as the protectors of women and women are seen as weak and where this is also based on gender stereotyping. This is called chivalry and chivalry enslaves women and it encourages weakness in them.

In societies based on chivalry men are very destructive towards one another. Chivalry is simply possessiveness in the mask of altruism, it is competition in the mask of altruism. A chivalrous man is a treacherous one who is not a brother to other men.




You should look into BDSM.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19246815 - 12/08/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Code:

that is a low blow sir (keep your defense classes out the thread thx :nono:)

there have been societies which were more enabling of women (like sparta) where women trained and fought. perception of women effects their confidence which imo was the point of the op :shrug:..

(see, women, i am valiant defender of your honor, kind of an internet white knight (we should hook up))


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19246976 - 12/08/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19248392 - 12/09/13 01:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Code:

that is a low blow sir (keep your defense classes out the thread thx :nono:)

there have been societies which were more enabling of women (like sparta) where women trained and fought. perception of women effects their confidence which imo was the point of the op :shrug:..

(see, women, i am valiant defender of your honor, kind of an internet white knight (we should hook up))




sorry but you cant be defending women with such argument .. claiming that women need basically to be positively perceived is pointing women being not real
on the contrary women are true, that is why real women the more you look at them the more they hate you, they wont accept to bargain their freedom, like where they are only them and nothing else

that is why speaking nicely to women is a cultural universal way of approach that could work .. it is not the reverse

how it became the reverse, like a totem saying what women moves when they are given something .. is all to the evil you are and others you follow like jesus or religions which is the same way.. killing the superiority of being rights to pretend being the truth superiority reference while inventing anything through powers abuse


Edited by absols (12/09/13 01:42 AM)


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: absols]
    #19248809 - 12/09/13 05:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

claiming that women need basically to be positively perceived is pointing women being not real on the contrary women are true, that is why real women the more you look at them the more they hate you, they wont accept to bargain their freedom, like where they are only them and nothing else




so you are arguing against chivalry?

Quote:

that is why speaking nicely to women is a cultural universal way of approach that could work .. it is not the reverse




so you are arguing for chivalry?

Quote:

how it became the reverse, like a totem saying what women moves when they are given something .. is all to the evil you are and others you follow like jesus or religions which is the same way..

killing the superiority of being rights to pretend being the truth superiority reference while inventing anything through powers abuse




i think you are saying that chivalry is good but is used as a means of manipulation and that i am as evil as jesus.?


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19248821 - 12/09/13 05:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
Quote:

claiming that women need basically to be positively perceived is pointing women being not real on the contrary women are true, that is why real women the more you look at them the more they hate you, they wont accept to bargain their freedom, like where they are only them and nothing else




so you are arguing against chivalry?

Quote:

that is why speaking nicely to women is a cultural universal way of approach that could work .. it is not the reverse




so you are arguing for chivalry?

Quote:

how it became the reverse, like a totem saying what women moves when they are given something .. is all to the evil you are and others you follow like jesus or religions which is the same way..

killing the superiority of being rights to pretend being the truth superiority reference while inventing anything through powers abuse




i think you are saying that chivalry is good but is used as a means of manipulation and that i am as evil as jesus.?




it is incredible how far you cant see things as facts ... it is always for your free gains ...

NO I didn't say anything about chilvalry, im not even interested to know what that is ... I am just reacting relatively to some comments about genders life and definitions ..


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: absols]
    #19248830 - 12/09/13 05:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ok dude calm down i was just trying to understand your post it was kind of cryptic & confusing & i dont see how it relates to what i said? :shrug:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19248913 - 12/09/13 06:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
ok dude calm down i was just trying to understand your post it was kind of cryptic & confusing & i dont see how it relates to what i said? :shrug:




why do you think that if another is telling you how you cant be objective because you mean always something.. then this person is angry ?? why ???

it is funny... anger is emotional beings like animals awareness kind, that clearly show how conscious is not the present being anymore.. when it is all about letters making sense of everything meant, where is the emotion you see ??

im joking im playing with you .. im not saying that you are doing that .. im saying that I don't think you are a fool .. all is cool  :matrixfight:


Edited by absols (12/09/13 06:44 AM)


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19250994 - 12/09/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

In the historical context of chivalry, I still have no idea what any of this debate has to do with chivalry enslaving women... :shrug2:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19251130 - 12/09/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Women have always relied on men for physical protection by woman's choice.  That's pretty natural.  And the fact is that women are physically weak and without the protection of males would be very vulnerable to predation.  The fact that a protective culture makes some of that null and void really doesn't change it. Women know that it is by the grace of chance and their expert maneuvering that men are not as necessary for personal protection at this time in history. That could all change in a moment and I think they instinctively know that.




Disagree, in a fight size will only carry one so far. Without an extreme discrepancy it can hardly be considered a factor, women are trained to be weak.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19251150 - 12/09/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You're dreaming.  As a martial arts teacher I learned quickly that women don't have the self confidence to defend themselves most of the time. By the time they retrieved the taser from a pocket and realized they really would have to use it, it would be far too late.

Very few people, men or women realize what self defense really entails.




That in a culture which raises women to be princesses riding pink ponies


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19251397 - 12/09/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

But who made who?

Unless that question is answered it's tough to judge the perceived masculine/feminine polarities evident in culture.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19251480 - 12/09/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Women have always relied on men for physical protection by woman's choice.  That's pretty natural.  And the fact is that women are physically weak and without the protection of males would be very vulnerable to predation.  The fact that a protective culture makes some of that null and void really doesn't change it. Women know that it is by the grace of chance and their expert maneuvering that men are not as necessary for personal protection at this time in history. That could all change in a moment and I think they instinctively know that.




Disagree, in a fight size will only carry one so far. Without an extreme discrepancy it can hardly be considered a factor, women are trained to be weak.




The animal kingdom is generally in disagreement with you.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: absols]
    #19253019 - 12/09/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

oh, well carry on then :hatsoff:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19254364 - 12/10/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
oh, well carry on then :hatsoff:




:laugh: thanks ..


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19256759 - 12/10/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
But who made who?

Unless that question is answered it's tough to judge the perceived masculine/feminine polarities evident in culture.




Who made who? Not sure what you mean or which culture you're referring to, certain older societies were at least somewhat egalitarian with women in positions of power.




Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:

Disagree, in a fight size will only carry one so far. Without an extreme discrepancy it can hardly be considered a factor, women are trained to be weak.




The animal kingdom is generally in disagreement with you.






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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19256802 - 12/10/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Used to be a lot of them in our town until foxes moved in.  Now you hardly ever see one. :shrug:


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Edited by Icelander (12/10/13 07:15 PM)


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19256813 - 12/10/13 06:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Used to have a pet opossum


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19257134 - 12/10/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

one of the last pets I'd choose :lol:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19257402 - 12/10/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I knew someone who kept a chicken and a dog as pets. The chicken was 'just like any other pet' according to the owner. It had it's own quirks and like to come up and say 'hello' to people it knew, would cuddle and play with the dog etc. I could go into detail about my cats and without mentioning their species I might as well be talking about a person. You would start to catch on when I got to the part about kicking Alex out and only letting him in the back room to eat. Alex lives in the craw space now.

All I'm saying is give possums a chance. :smile:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Rahz]
    #19257546 - 12/10/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Too late. The foxes et em.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19258549 - 12/11/13 02:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Pretty sure some animal eats the male after she's done mating with him. Haha!


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: cheeshcat]
    #19258611 - 12/11/13 02:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

she doesn't just wear the pants, she wears his skin!


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: cheeshcat]
    #19258753 - 12/11/13 04:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cheeshcat said:
Pretty sure some animal eats the male after she's done mating with him. Haha!




And she's likely physically bigger and stronger. :wink:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19260978 - 12/11/13 03:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
one of the last pets I'd choose :lol:




They're really friendly, also they have bright red penises with a fork at the end


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19261448 - 12/11/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

and huge gaps between their teeth.  Might be cute when pups but not as adults. :lol:  Easy to feed though. They eat anything.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19261655 - 12/11/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Mostly fed them cat food, they love that stuff. The opossum is a majestic creature


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19261736 - 12/11/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

All creatures can seem that way at times.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19261746 - 12/11/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Wouldn't it be awesome to trip with a possum? Shoot dang


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19261904 - 12/11/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think that would freak me out.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19261929 - 12/11/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:lolsy:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19264434 - 12/12/13 05:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lines said:
The notion that in society men are the protectors of women is based on the sexist notion that men are evil beings who are intent on harming women; it is also based on the sexist notion that women are incapable of managing their own affairs.

It is a strange concept because on the one hand is classifies men as protectors which would imply men are good but the people women would need protecting from would be men and thus the concept also implies men are evil. The concept itself is a paradox.

Another word for protector is guardian. The term guardian is used to describe the responsibility an adult has over a child. Thus in a society where men are deemed the protectors of women the result is is that women are seen as like children. In such a situation women are the wards of men and men have burdens and responsibilities placed on them that are disproportionate and unfair.

Women are not weak. And as a man this does not make me a womans keeper. Women are responsible for their own well being and they are perfectly capable of it.

The truth about women is that most women support patriarchy and that most of them do this because most women are intellectually lazy and want men to figure everything out for them. What matters though is not what the majority of women want, what matters is what is right. Even though the majority of women want patriarchy that does not mean it is right because a patriarchal system is oppressive to both men and women.

Furthermore it does not do women any good for men to be enablers of their intellectual laziness.

I am not saying men should never protect women and I am not saying women should never protect men and I am not saying people of the same geneder should never protect each other. What I am saying is that it is a bad idea for there to be a formalized role in society where men are seen as the protectors of women and women are seen as weak and where this is also based on gender stereotyping. This is called chivalry and chivalry enslaves women and it encourages weakness in them.

In societies based on chivalry men are very destructive towards one another. Chivalry is simply possessiveness in the mask of altruism, it is competition in the mask of altruism. A chivalrous man is a treacherous one who is not a brother to other men.




What about the Tao? The natural flow of everything how it is? The way is equality. Your blah blah requires a lot of laws, lawyers, government meddling and the result for most women is that they become slaves to shitty under paid jobs.

The natural home is the real location of happiness and meaning.

Woman that opts out of the natural order rely on lawyers and politicians for protection, there is no love here. The woman who is Tao has a real man to protect her and she has love. A man who keeps himself strong, healthy and brings home a wage needs a tidy home and a woman to come home to, otherwise he lives in a mess or has to pay for a housekeeper. Naturally a woman really is only happy if she has a home to keep, children to raise and a man to pleasure.

Some higher intelligence, high self esteem woman kicking ass doing what ever else is fine, but why does she think all other women should be like her?


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19267152 - 12/12/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

...brings home a wage needs a tidy home and a woman to come home to, otherwise he lives in a mess or has to pay for a housekeeper. Naturally a woman really is only happy if she has a home to keep, children to raise and a man to pleasure.




:lol::facepalm:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19267161 - 12/12/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:orly::orly::orly::orly::orly:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: quinn]
    #19269152 - 12/13/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah. Actually totally. It's just the way it is for most women. We are animals and the basic shit don't change no matter how uptight westerners are required to get about it.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19269311 - 12/13/13 03:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

first saying there is some obvious natural order when it comes to humans is bs imo, we are the weirdest animals on the planet

prescribing inherent traits based on little more than genetalia is pretty silly.. people made similar arguments for maintaining social privilege based on skin color, not long ago at all :ohwell:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19270039 - 12/13/13 10:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:

What about the Tao? The natural flow of everything how it is? The way is equality. Your blah blah requires a lot of laws, lawyers, government meddling and the result for most women is that they become slaves to shitty under paid jobs.

The natural home is the real location of happiness and meaning.

Woman that opts out of the natural order rely on lawyers and politicians for protection, there is no love here. The woman who is Tao has a real man to protect her and she has love. A man who keeps himself strong, healthy and brings home a wage needs a tidy home and a woman to come home to, otherwise he lives in a mess or has to pay for a housekeeper. Naturally a woman really is only happy if she has a home to keep, children to raise and a man to pleasure.

Some higher intelligence, high self esteem woman kicking ass doing what ever else is fine, but why does she think all other women should be like her?




Have any peer-reviewed sources to back your claims here?


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19278473 - 12/15/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then why have police and security guards?





Good point, we shouldn't have them people should be responsible for their own self-defense. Look at the power police have over people and they way they abuse it due to having been given the status as protector. A protector can easily become enslaver.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: lines]
    #19278507 - 12/15/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lines said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Then why have police and security guards?





Good point, we shouldn't have them people should be responsible for their own self-defense. Look at the power police have over people and they way they abuse it due to having been given the status as protector. A protector can easily become enslaver.




In my opinion that only works with a relatively low population density, our system of civic patrol men also allows one to break out of cronyism and embrace a more individualistic lifestyle.
Overall I think its a more efficient model for the individual as it allows you to pick and choose your acquaintances rather than spend a lifetime under the umbrella of the clan (whoever they may be).


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19313033 - 12/22/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Sounds like someone just finished his first semester of freshman philosophy.


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Dip41ea]
    #19313607 - 12/22/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dip41ea said:
Sounds like someone just finished his first semester of freshman philosophy.




Meaning what?


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Rahz]
    #19314742 - 12/23/13 05:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Meaning that if you have to ask you must have just finished your first semester of freshman psychology. :haha:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19315077 - 12/23/13 07:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Meaning that if you have to ask you must have just finished your first semester of freshman psychology. :haha:




Meaning what?

:spock:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Rahz]
    #19315254 - 12/23/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Meaning half of one or six dozen of the other. :nicesmile:


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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19315689 - 12/23/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well okay then. :crankeyclaus:


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OfflineDip41ea
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Rahz]
    #19318738 - 12/23/13 10:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Meaning that is hackneyed argument.  There may be some truth to the idea in terms of historical development, but it is a gross exaggeration to say that chivalry "enslaves" women.


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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Re: Chilvary Enslaves Women [Re: Icelander]
    #19318837 - 12/23/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Meaning half of one or six dozen of the other. :nicesmile:




Still laughing at this..

"Chivalry" exists  because men need to see their women and children survive.  Feminism is the poison.  Exaggerated masculinity is the poison.
What would women do without the imperative to have and protect children?  What would men do without the imperative to protect their children and their mother?  We would not exist.


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