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hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: Legend]
#19234499 - 12/05/13 11:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Reasonable people could disagree about that, Legend. I personally think that reform Judaism that doesn't involve genital mutilation would be a good solution.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: SuperD]
#19234605 - 12/06/13 12:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SuperD said: This was no call to arms or anything of the sort. I just wanted to spark a discussion here which is what this forum is about. Hell that's what most forums are about. Do I look like I'm rallying an army together ready to go take down some orthodox rabbis? I'm disturbed by the practice but not disturbed enough to go knock down doors over it. It's not my problem after all.
I didn't read it as an attempt at intellectual discourse, but rather as a handful of emotionally charged gut reactions and a proclamation of lines crossed.
With regards to this bizarre ritual, it's certainly not my cup of tea , but fortunately I'm not a Jewish rabbi, religious, or have or even want kids. While it does evoke some sense of culture shock, I'm not convinced that the rabbi's motivations are sexually perverse or indicative of sexual abuse either. I'm not sure, and I'm not ready to condemn them from guilt by association with their Catholic brethren either. Undoubtably, it's pretty fucking weird from my cultural vantage point, but .
With regards to safety, it seems unquestionably a terrible idea. At the same time, I don't know about your assessment that the rabbi 'wasn't clean', as it almost seemed as though you were implying that he had an STD.
From what I understand, statistically, something like 2/3rds of all humans have HSV-1 (commonly considered 'oral herpes'), which is generally symptomatic of oral 'cold sores'. HSV-1 can be spread to the genitals, but is very uncommon, because development of specific antibodies usually occur in childhood or adolescence that preclude a genital HSV-1 infection. With a baby that lacks these antibodies, however, the risk of neonatal herpes seems real and it could be quite serious and potentially deadly..... Usually a baby would get this from HSV-2 (commonly thought of as 'genital herpes') from coming into contact with infected secretions in the birthing canal. 
And FWIW, from a cultural anthropological vantage point, a statement like "and it's happening right here on US soil, not some poo flinging backwards third world country." is just fucked on so many levels... It's no wonder that eve69 picked up on racism.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19234742 - 12/06/13 12:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What is the point of the practice in the first place? I just sliced the tip of your cock off here's a kiss?
And sorry MarktheGnostic I'm not so sure there are many "health benefits" to getting the end of your manhood lopped off, especially in today's world. If your arguing for the sake of UTI's, Its 2013, keep your dick clean! Even if not they make medicine. Did you know right before a kid gets it sliced it goes to sleep. That sleep is the brains response to traumatic experience, its shock! Fucking barbaric.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#19234855 - 12/06/13 01:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TheGreenArrow said: What is the point of the practice in the first place? I just sliced the tip of your cock off here's a kiss?
And sorry MarktheGnostic I'm not so sure there are many "health benefits" to getting the end of your manhood lopped off, especially in today's world. If your arguing for the sake of UTI's, Its 2013, keep your dick clean! Even if not they make medicine. Did you know right before a kid gets it sliced it goes to sleep. That sleep is the brains response to traumatic experience, its shock! Fucking barbaric. 
You're asking me? From what I understand, the point is to clean the wound with the wine... If it was me, pretending circumcision was something medically necessary to begin with (and I'm right there with you that it's not), I'm pretty sure I'd have thought of myriads of more safe, effective, and less repulsive ways to go about this task. But apparently they see things differently, and there must be some ritualistic significance. Perhaps they see the rabbi as blessing the child? While this is pretty grotesque to us, I don't think we're making any legitimate attempt to understand them without an ethnographical inquiry into it.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19234867 - 12/06/13 01:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Culture is a drug. Anything that would let wild shit like that happen is outside what should be acceptable. Especially if infants are getting teh herps. Thats the gift that keeps givin.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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Starskii
Stranger
Registered: 11/13/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#19234877 - 12/06/13 01:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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To all who still think this practice is okay:
Lets be clear, you are saying that snipping off the skin of a child's penis is okay, then having an old man suck on the wound for a little while. The wound, on his penis.
How the fuck is that an okay thing for any developing brain to go through?! Like at all? Ever? Whether he remember it or not it still happened.
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Starskii
Stranger
Registered: 11/13/13
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: Starskii]
#19234883 - 12/06/13 01:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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By the way, keep in mind that this old man knew he was going to have to suck on babies penises, and he still took the job.
What does that tell you?
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: Starskii]
#19234909 - 12/06/13 02:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fuck if I know, generally I don't experience emotional reactions and make snap decisions. I have more questions before I have answers, which seems very unpopular around these parts.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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pokitman
GiGaNtIcIa


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 62
Loc: The Moon
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19235107 - 12/06/13 03:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So...do they like, spit it out? drink it? or do what with the blood these grey grown men suck from an infants bleeding cock? Couldn't they at least have it be a babe? I mean come on think about when this child's parents tell them a grown man was sucking on there shit omg they have no choice either!
-------------------- Close your eyes, see the little colored dots? now open your eyes, and life just became a void, you have shifted into a new reality, by reading this. Life has become nothing, nothing more then what you believe reality and your senses make it. And what you have always believed reality to be, is nothing more than what reality was, but not anymore. Because reality doesn't exist anymore. Your welcome.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: pokitman]
#19235121 - 12/06/13 04:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Couldn't they at least have it be a babe?
Reminds me of an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry rants that worshipping Jesus seems a little gay, that he could get behind it if he were a girl. He'd worship Jane.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19235382 - 12/06/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
At the same time, I don't know about your assessment that the rabbi 'wasn't clean', as it almost seemed as though you were implying that he had an STD.
No, I said some rabbis who engage in this tradition aren't clean, and I stand by that true statement. I did not mean to imply every single rabbi is running around with an STD. Sorry if that wasn't clear from the beginning.
Quote:
And FWIW, from a cultural anthropological vantage point, a statement like "and it's happening right here on US soil, not some poo flinging backwards third world country." is just fucked on so many levels... It's no wonder that eve69 picked up on racism.
Once again, apologies if that offended anybody. Could I have worded it a little differently? Sure I could have, and probably should have. Am I a racist or did I mean for the comment to sound racist? Absolutely not and it's not my fault someone else wants to interpret my statement that way.
I'm all for live and let live with people's weird traditions but at the same time I reserve the right to call them out on their religious bullshit. Religion is a mind virus because that's exactly how it behaves. It spreads from one host to another, infecting them along the way and influencing their behaviors causing them to do irrational shit under the false pretense that some higher power wants them to do whatever it is they do.
In this particular case, these guys are absolutely convinced that their god wants them to cut a child's foreskin and then suck the wound clean with their mouth. It's even in the article if you cared to read it. No amount of arguing with them would convince them that this isn't the case. That's why religion can be considered a mind virus. These guys are infected with no cure in sight.
You want to perform a fucked up ritual in the name of your so called god? Go right ahead, I'm not stopping you. But I will rightfully call you out on your silly bullshit. Race has nothing to do with it. These guys could be purple and hail from Mars for all I give a shit. You can't help what color you are or what nation you're born in but you have absolute and complete control over your actions and that's what I'm judging.
--------------------
   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Mr Person



Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 551
Loc: inner circle of fault
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: SuperD]
#19235578 - 12/06/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have a kind of a unique perspective on this as I was circumcised at a late age. I can definitely confirm that the level of sensitivity that was lost after being circumcised was extreme. Before circumcision I could barely touch the uncovered glans (such as when bathing) because it was too sensitive. It's kind of like how your dick feels when you've just cum, except all of the time.
Just after the circumcision it was tough standing up straight with pants on because the fabric touching me was too much, but eventually that went away as the fabric rubbed and rubbed until I had a normal circumcised dick that has to be manhandled in order to cum.
Because of this experience I do feel that circumcision is mutilation, just as bad as female genital mutilation. Cultural relativism is fine within certain limits, but some things do need to be left at the door when assimilating into other cultures.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: SuperD]
#19235586 - 12/06/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SuperD said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I'd just fling some poo at em. 
Flinging poo at them might actually help them. I can imagine a would-be robber fleeing the scene if you started flinging poo near his or her victim. Our good old buddy CosmicJoke would simply walk on by, allowing the robbery and possible murder to happen. It's not his problem after all. 
You would be charged with hate crimes and labeled an anti-semite, which means in some places you would never make it. Such as the entertainment industry etc. 
(Another animation I might get shit on for using)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19236164 - 12/06/13 11:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think we're making any legitimate attempt to understand them without an ethnographical inquiry into it.
There's nothing to understand. No ethnographical (or any other) justification of mutilation and torture is justified in any ethical world view, period. That goes double when it's inflicted without consent on an innocent consciousness that has not even learned to speak yet.
Would we be discussing ethnographics if instead of penises, religious imbeciles were tattooing babies or chopping off their pinky or cutting off ears or harvesting a kidney instead? I doubt it. So why does cultural relativity only apply as long as it's the baby's penis?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: Diploid]
#19236478 - 12/06/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I don't think we're making any legitimate attempt to understand them without an ethnographical inquiry into it.
There's nothing to understand. No ethnographical (or any other) justification of mutilation torture is justified in any ethical world view, period. That goes double when it's inflicted without consent on an innocent consciousness that has not even learned to speak yet.
Would we be discussing ethnographics if instead of penises, religious imbeciles were tattooing babies or chopping off their pinky or cutting off ears or harvesting a kidney instead? I doubt it. So why does cultural relativity only apply as long as it's the baby's penis?
I feel like you're shifting topics, from this bizarre post circumcision ritual that the OP felt merit in posting to circumcision itself, which muddles things. Circumcision frankly doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I have no idea what kind of long term negative psychological imprint on one's sense of safety and well being circumcision might make and if there's any difference if it's performed in the hospital with some form of anesthesia (which virtually every hospital in the US performs to my knowledge). To me, it's all medically unnecessary and carries equally as many risks as benefits. It's something I'd never want for a hypothetical child of mine (though I'd never want a child).
Edit:
The OP's topic seems far more about using a mouthful of wine to clean a baby's penis wound, which seems to have set off some serious tabboos. I would definitely be curious what a cultural anthropologist would have to say about it myself.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
Edited by CosmicJoke (12/06/13 01:13 PM)
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hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19236955 - 12/06/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree with Diploid; the baby penis sucking is part of a larger wrong that can't ethically be accommodated in the name of cultural sensitivity.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: hmmn]
#19237198 - 12/06/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Which is? Circumcision itself? Which culture? I'm pretty sure circumcision is still one of the most common procedures in hospital stays in the US, but is definitely trending downwards from say even the 1980s.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19237626 - 12/06/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Genital mutilation, yeah. It's seen as abhorent - regardless of gender - almost everywhere that isn't the United States, Israel, a Muslim country, or some of Africa. Jews, Muslims, some Africans, and a substantial minority of Americans think it's ok to cut off functioning, healthy parts of the genitals of children of one or both genders. Just about everybody else doesn't.
I certainly don't think it's something that an ethical society can accept for any reason beyond the exceedingly rare medical necessity.
People in the United States are moving in that direction as well. It's one of the most common pediatric surgeries in the U.S., primarily because pediatric surgery is uncommon. It's becoming less common each year; hospital male circumcision rates in infants are between 40% and 50% at present.
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: hmmn]
#19238047 - 12/06/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What gets me is the fucko doctors that deep down know it doesn't serve any medical purpose. Yet they still get paychecks and kicks from snippin little boy prick.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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Mr Person



Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 551
Loc: inner circle of fault
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Re: Jewish priests sucking bloody baby genitalia [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19238066 - 12/06/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said:
I feel like you're shifting topics, from this bizarre post circumcision ritual that the OP felt merit in posting to circumcision itself, which muddles things. Circumcision frankly doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I have no idea what kind of long term negative psychological imprint on one's sense of safety and well being circumcision might make and if there's any difference if it's performed in the hospital with some form of anesthesia (which virtually every hospital in the US performs to my knowledge). To me, it's all medically unnecessary and carries equally as many risks as benefits. It's something I'd never want for a hypothetical child of mine (though I'd never want a child).
Edit:
The OP's topic seems far more about using a mouthful of wine to clean a baby's penis wound, which seems to have set off some serious tabboos. I would definitely be curious what a cultural anthropologist would have to say about it myself.
I think if you start from the premise that circumcision is wrong then anything that comes after is wrong as well. It doesn't matter if they clean the wound with their mouths or wear the foreskin as a little yarmulke. They shouldn't have cut it off in the first place!
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