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ForgottenFreshness
Staying High


Registered: 11/16/13
Posts: 211
Last seen: 4 months, 22 hours
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MS > Grain vs Ms > LC > Grain?
#19226070 - 12/04/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your opinions?
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,060
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=
EDIT: In terms of colonization times lc will probably be a couple days faster but you already spent those days colonizing the lc.
LC is a simple way for newcommers to quickly expand the amount of inoculate they have, it worked for me that way but in terms of yield, potency, colonization times etc there really wasn't a difference that I was able to perceive. A multispore grow is still a multispore grow if there has been no isolation.
If this is your first grow just use the syringes first and save a little bit of spore solution for making an LC. There's a good bet the syringes are pretty clean but there is no telling whether an LC you have is contaminated without fruiting it out.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
Edited by elasticaltiger (12/04/13 10:47 AM)
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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MS to grains will always be quicker than MS to LC to Grains. Also, you won't be able to tell if the LC is contaminated. Lastly, no spore syringe is 100% clean, so you may be inoculating your LC with a contam and not know it.
I do MS-->Grains-->G2G (the quickest growing jar)--->G2G
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Quote:
ForgottenFreshness said: Your opinions?
Using LC is an invitation to contamination. LC though convenient for expanding cultures introduces a HUGE chance of contamination.
The benefit of using an LC is certainly outweighed by the chance of failure. I have used LC in the past with success, and failure. I highly advise looking at agar.
So long as your MSS is clean, it would be best (IMHO) to go MS to grain, than to Grain to grain transfers. This is the safest way to expand a culture, whether its MSS, clone or isolate.
Hope that helps direct you on a path to success.
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Juicin
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 897
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As tiger said it is a great way to get going if you have limited genetics. But they are easy to fuck up and you won't know until it's done. I went the full 9 yards with a mag stirrer and whatman filters and everything looked great until they fruited and I realized I had a jar that only produced mutants. That fucking stirrer has sat in my closet since.
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ForgottenFreshness
Staying High


Registered: 11/16/13
Posts: 211
Last seen: 4 months, 22 hours
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Re: MS > Grain vs Ms > LC > Grain? [Re: Juicin]
#19226254 - 12/04/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
elasticaltiger said: =
EDIT: In terms of colonization times lc will probably be a couple days faster but you already spent those days colonizing the lc.
LC is a simple way for newcommers to quickly expand the amount of inoculate they have, it worked for me that way but in terms of yield, potency, colonization times etc there really wasn't a difference that I was able to perceive. A multispore grow is still a multispore grow if there has been no isolation.
If this is your first grow just use the syringes first and save a little bit of spore solution for making an LC. There's a good bet the syringes are pretty clean but there is no telling whether an LC you have is contaminated without fruiting it out.
While this isn't my first grow I'm fairly new to grains and lc. So maybe you'd consider me to be semi-newbish? Either way the plan is to either MS/LC to grain > Clone > Grain > G2G
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TranscendingLife said: MS to grains will always be quicker than MS to LC to Grains. Also, you won't be able to tell if the LC is contaminated. Lastly, no spore syringe is 100% clean, so you may be inoculating your LC with a contam and not know it.
I do MS-->Grains-->G2G (the quickest growing jar)--->G2G
How quick the grow is doesn't really matter imo. At least not at this point.
Sorry if curiosity is killing the cat here but why would you G2G ms grains when it would be far more favorable to clone or isolate from the fruits?
Quote:
Whippy said:
Quote:
ForgottenFreshness said: Your opinions?
Using LC is an invitation to contamination. LC though convenient for expanding cultures introduces a HUGE chance of contamination.
The benefit of using an LC is certainly outweighed by the chance of failure. I have used LC in the past with success, and failure. I highly advise looking at agar.
So long as your MSS is clean, it would be best (IMHO) to go MS to grain, than to Grain to grain transfers. This is the safest way to expand a culture, whether its MSS, clone or isolate.
Hope that helps direct you on a path to success.
Please view the reply above
Quote:
Juicin said: As tiger said it is a great way to get going if you have limited genetics. But they are easy to fuck up and you won't know until it's done. I went the full 9 yards with a mag stirrer and whatman filters and everything looked great until they fruited and I realized I had a jar that only produced mutants. That fucking stirrer has sat in my closet since.
Interesting, Are you implying the automatic stirring plate caused mutations?
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Because I, normally, only inoculate one jar. So I can G2G that then have enough for a monotub and take a clone. If you're cloning, don't waste your time on the LC, as I could pose the exact same question that you asked me. Why do an LC with MS when you're going to clone off your first tub?
No, he's not. He's saying that he got all mutants so ditched it, because he didn't know what he was getting into with the LC.
Also, I use the quickest jar, because it showing the strongest genetics.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here "One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife “A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING      "Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung "Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs "You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Quote:
ForgottenFreshness said: Sorry if curiosity is killing the cat here but why would you G2G ms grains when it would be far more favorable to clone or isolate from the fruits?
Well it would only be favorable if you wanted to clone or isolate.....if the plan is just to get fruits, then MS to grains is the best bet....not making an LC that could possibly contaminate and then put that to grains...it just makes no sense.....all it does is add more time, and more risk......with absolutley no added benefits over G2G....not one......
As stated above no print/syringe is ever 100% clean, and LC is the perfect breeding ground for everything not mycellium.
To me, skipping LC and just g2g'ing a few master MS jars is a no brainer.
If it was me, I would knock up 10 quart jars with a few drops of spores each, then G2G them out to 100qts, then spawn, clone my heart out, and isolate what I felt necessary.
It would be the quickest and safest method without getting involved in agar.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Quote:
ForgottenFreshness said: Sorry if curiosity is killing the cat here but why would you G2G ms grains when it would be far more favorable to clone or isolate from the fruits?
I was basing my response on your OP (Ms to grain or MS to LC to Grain). G2G is always a better option for expanding ANY culture than an LC. Yes certainly a clone/isolated genetics would be spectacular, but you seem to only have grain and an MSS. Notahacker & Trancendinglife pretty much sums it up.
Quote:
Whippy said: it would be best (IMHO) to go MS to grain, than to Grain to grain transfers. This is the safest way to expand a culture, whether its MSS, clone or isolate.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Quote:
Whippy said:
Quote:
ForgottenFreshness said: Sorry if curiosity is killing the cat here but why would you G2G ms grains when it would be far more favorable to clone or isolate from the fruits?
I was basing my response on your OP (Ms to grain or MS to LC to Grain). G2G is always a better option for expanding ANY culture than an LC. Yes certainly a clone/isolated genetics would be spectacular, but you seem to only have grain and an MSS. Notahacker & Trancendinglife pretty much sums it up.
Quote:
Whippy said: it would be best (IMHO) to go MS to grain, than to Grain to grain transfers. This is the safest way to expand a culture, whether its MSS, clone or isolate.
ok well let me bring the cat back to life here and say holds true for things like cubes but certain species do benifit from lc more so then g2g, but with cubes i think lc should be avoided, sorry but you never specified what you were growing lol
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da5id


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 12
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: MS > Grain vs Ms > LC > Grain? [Re: PussyFart]
#19547348 - 02/10/14 10:50 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
PussyFart said:
To me, skipping LC and just g2g'ing a few master MS jars is a no brainer.
If it was me, I would knock up 10 quart jars with a few drops of spores each, then G2G them out to 100qts, then spawn, clone my heart out, and isolate what I felt necessary.
It would be the quickest and safest method without getting involved in agar.
Is the quickest/safest method using agar to go MS > Agar - isolate away from contams > Grain > G2G?
I don't want to wait (I know... patience Daniel-son) to test a bunch of isolates - just looking for a faster way to get things going from a new MS syringe.
(also, loved your "tale of isolates" post)
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Paulsage
Shaman of shit storms



Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 109
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: MS > Grain vs Ms > LC > Grain? [Re: Juicin]
#19547405 - 02/10/14 11:11 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Juicin said: I went the full 9 yards with a mag stirrer and whatman filters and everything looked great until they fruited and I realized I had a jar that only produced mutants. That fucking stirrer has sat in my closet since.
if you want to sell it PM me, i can always use another one.
-------------------- "The brain is a reducing valve that restricts consciousness" - A Huxley "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" – Ralph Waldo Emerson… "Whatever you study you also change" - Heisenberg Uncertainty principle
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1down5up
Social Ninja



Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 1,743
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: MS > Grain vs Ms > LC > Grain? [Re: da5id]
#19547426 - 02/10/14 11:18 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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you'll have to transfer to several plates before isolating traits. It won't happen in one or two. With agar, you don't always have to transfer away from contams, you should do enough plates to eliminate the need to work with contams. That said, the best thing about agar is that you can transfer away from contams.
LC always has to be tested, no matter what. Though it will colonize slightly faster, the amount of time you spend testing it will more than swallow up that advantage. I did both, and recently discussed the pros adn cons of agar and LC. Once the brilliant minds on this site brought a few things to my attention, I realised that agar and G2G are the way to go. Even if you start from spores>agar>grains>G2G, you will get 2 or 3 tranferred plates before you test and grow out LC, and therefore will be well on your way to isolating desired traits, that will fill a mono consistently.
-------------------- ~~Everything is relative~~ A Simplified Overview of Mushroom Cultivation Strategies - RR says - EvilMushroom666's Take on BRF Cakes - Frank's list of goodies - Cronicr's Goodies No one is placed higher than another no matter race or creed or gender, we must teach forgiveness and compassion for all life. J.L.
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da5id


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 12
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: MS > Grain vs Ms > LC > Grain? [Re: 1down5up]
#19556677 - 02/12/14 10:26 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just so I'm clear (and I realize you were comparing LCs to Agar -- I'm not interested in the LC aspect), put a few drops from a MS syringe into an agar dish, let it colonize, isolate away from contams if necessary, then inoculate grain jars with contaminate-free agar wedges, let them colonize and g2g the fastest ones?
I think this would be a faster initial start than inoculating 10 grain jars with a MS syringe and waiting for them to colonize before g2ging (and then cloning strong clusters etc).
Thanks much.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: MS > Grain vs Ms > LC > Grain? [Re: da5id]
#19556774 - 02/12/14 10:56 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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you got it
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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da5id


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 12
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: MS > Grain vs Ms > LC > Grain? [Re: cronicr]
#19556950 - 02/12/14 12:04 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Rad.
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